How Is The Traditional 'handsome' Male Look Achieved?

[Luckytype]

I have pronounced cheekbones and a good jaw line.

They developed probably in my early 20s.

Im naturally lean and only going from 170-175ish to 190-195 and gaining more muscle did my face actually fill out with no real change in bodyfat percentage. Distinct difference in photos. Trimming off muscle for work suit fitting made my face a bit leaner.

Oddly since my metabolism fell further, my body comp has softened a bit, my face is still hard and lean.

Throughout all this my bones never changed shape.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

This is kind of a fascinating topic, to discover that female to male attractiveness is not subjective, as the world tells us, but objective, and quantifiable in terms such as height, gonial angle, FWHR, canthal tilt, forward growth. It has brought me deep depression over the past year. To realize that If I had more of a squared jaw, my success to the opposite sex would be much higher.
Mother nature is cruel. Most of the traits that women find attractive in men are genetic traits and not something a man can change / 'fake'. Height being a major one.
We can't go back though, we can't reopen our growth plates, or re-initiate a second puberty

 

[baccheion]

This is kind of a fascinating topic, to discover that female to male attractiveness is not subjective, as the world tells us, but objective, and quantifiable in terms such as height, gonial angle, FWHR, canthal tilt, forward growth. It has brought me deep depression over the past year. To realize that If I had more of a squared jaw, my success to the opposite sex would be much higher.
Mother nature is cruel. Most of the traits that women find attractive in men are genetic traits and not something a man can change / 'fake'. Height being a major one.
We can't go back though, we can't reopen our growth plates, or re-initiate a second puberty

There are controllable characteristics that increase appeal: testosterone in top half of range, good health, healthy glow, tongue action, fitness (average/ideal weight for height and frame size while remaining at 12% body fat), dressing, grooming, confidence/assertiveness, status/wealth, timing (attracted to masculine/high-testosterone during ovulation, provider/effeminate/low-T-low-E when progesterone is higher, and feminine faces while bleeding), etc.

If you read the studies, they indicate that preference/difference due to jaw shape went away when stubble was introduced.

Once done, height would be all that remains. Unsure what to do about that. On the other hand, women prefer that a male be at least 1.08x as tall. That is, a woman that's 5'0" has a threshold of 5'5" rather than 6'0". Social stigmas, norms, and pressures may affect the natural preference somewhat.

If really all out ugly (or short), then make a lot of money. Buy a nice house, nice car, nice things, and a nice/hot wife that will love you more (though little) than most others love their spouse. Logic applied to reality/perspective can lead to a dark cold conclusion, whether accepted or not.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@baccheion True.
Personally, I have a decent physical appearance, decent height (6ft, or 183 cm), it's just that I keep comparing myself with male models and it kills my self confidence
I've been drawn to a nihilistic outlook on life: nothing matters if you're not in the top 20% of looks, and it's been affecting my life.
I've started Mewing(tongue posture & orthotropics) a year ago, making slow progress though.

What consumes me is not my height, but the fact that I'm in my late 20s, so I'm technically a man, but have the body of a teenager (small wrists, thin forearms, bideltoid width, neck) and this makes me less masculine. Think Zac Efron body VS Sean O'Pry.

 

[baccheion]

@baccheion True.
Personally, I have a decent physical appearance, decent height (6ft, or 183 cm), it's just that I keep comparing myself with male models and it kills my self confidence
I've been drawn to a nihilistic outlook on life: nothing matters if you're not in the top 20% of looks, and it's been affecting my life.
I've started Mewing(tongue posture & orthotropics) a year ago, making slow progress though.

What consumes me is not my height, but the fact that I'm in my late 20s, so I'm technically a man, but have the body of a teenager (small wrists, thin forearms, bideltoid width, neck) and this makes me less masculine. Think Zac Efron body VS Sean O'Pry.

I also have the same wrist issue. One study suggests higher estradiol (2x the upper limit via TRT) for 6 months to a year pushes the body to the later stage of puberty, starting the process of widening/thickening the wrists. I'm not sure if that makes any sense.

Neck size and such things are probably related to cortisol. A higher testosterone/androgen:cortisol ratio would then add mass.

 

[TheBeard]

@baccheion True.
Think Zac Efron body VS Sean O'Pry.

Wait...which of the two is supposed to be the masculine looking one?

 

[TheBeard]

I also have the same wrist issue. One study suggests higher estradiol (2x the upper limit via TRT) for 6 months to a year pushes the body to the later stage of puberty, starting the process of widening/thickening the wrists.

You mean if TRT is used during puberty?

Because past 20 there is not much you can do for your wrist, plates are fused

 

[baccheion]

You mean if TRT is used during puberty?

Because past 20 there is not much you can do for your wrist, plates are fused

It wasn't during puberty. On the other hand, I'm not clear on the study's viability. IIRC, it was administered to males with low estrogen (aromatase deficiency?). That is, maybe their plates hadn't yet fused.

 

[TheBeard]

It wasn't during puberty. On the other hand, I'm not clear on the study's viability. IIRC, it was administered to males with low estrogen (aromatase deficiency). That is, maybe their plates hadn't yet fused.

I would be really interested at having a look at the study!

So they were saying priming e2 levels through supraphysiological test dose for 6 months caused wrist enlargement in men past puberty?

Not saying it’s impossible, but when I see many of the youtubers that are not hiding their PED usage (Tony Huge, Coach Trevor, others) that have sometime experimented with massive test doses + massive HGH doses for years, and that they don’t even have that impressive a wrist size...

 

[baccheion]

I would be really interested at having a look at the study!

So they were saying priming e2 levels through supraphysiological test dose for 6 months caused wrist enlargement in men past puberty?

Not saying it’s impossible, but when I see many of the youtubers that are not hiding their PED usage (Tony Huge, Coach Trevor, others) that have sometime experimented with massive test doses + massive HGH doses for years, and that they don’t even have that impressive a wrist size...

May it is. Maybe it isn't. I'm still unclear.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199808273390905

Aromatase deficiency in men: a clinical perspective

 

[Kram]

@baccheion True.
Personally, I have a decent physical appearance, decent height (6ft, or 183 cm), it's just that I keep comparing myself with male models and it kills my self confidence
I've been drawn to a nihilistic outlook on life: nothing matters if you're not in the top 20% of looks, and it's been affecting my life.
I've started Mewing(tongue posture & orthotropics) a year ago, making slow progress though.

What consumes me is not my height, but the fact that I'm in my late 20s, so I'm technically a man, but have the body of a teenager (small wrists, thin forearms, bideltoid width, neck) and this makes me less masculine. Think Zac Efron body VS Sean O'Pry.

The wrist thing frustrates me too. My wrist size is almost the same as my mom's and my forearms look very similar to my sisters (although I am 6'o'' 185lbs). Meanwhile my brother's wrists are probably twice the size of mine (he's 5'8'') and my uncles on both side all have extremely masculine forearms. It's amazing what a terrible diet growing up and some bad advice from doctor's can do to a person. If I only knew then what I know now. That's my sob story.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Wait...which of the two is supposed to be the masculine looking one?

Sean O'Pry of course. Taller, bigger hands, and overall larger bone mass & skeletal structure.
Zac Efron has many positive traits, obviously, but he fits more of the 'pretty boy' archetype: good-looking, but not necessarily very physically dominant.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

One study suggests higher estradiol (2x the upper limit via TRT) for 6 months to a year pushes the body to the later stage of puberty, starting the process of widening/thickening the wrists.

Isn't Estradiol anti-androgenic and something unwanted in men?

 

[Kram]

Isn't Estradiol anti-androgenic and something unwanted in men?

I think balance is key. My estradiol somehow remains right at the bottom of the range and I don't believe this is providing me any benefit.

 

[baccheion]

Isn't Estradiol anti-androgenic and something unwanted in men?

Estradiol pushes along bone maturity in this case, similar to what happens when the increase during puberty leads to closure of growth plates.

 

[lampofred]

@baccheion True.
Personally, I have a decent physical appearance, decent height (6ft, or 183 cm), it's just that I keep comparing myself with male models and it kills my self confidence
I've been drawn to a nihilistic outlook on life: nothing matters if you're not in the top 20% of looks, and it's been affecting my life.
I've started Mewing(tongue posture & orthotropics) a year ago, making slow progress though.

What consumes me is not my height, but the fact that I'm in my late 20s, so I'm technically a man, but have the body of a teenager (small wrists, thin forearms, bideltoid width, neck) and this makes me less masculine. Think Zac Efron body VS Sean O'Pry.

You can become more attractive though... I've become much more attractive since I started the Peat way of eating and the increase in attractiveness is actually still continuing. Even when it comes to height, Peat said DHEA made him grow a couple of inches in his 40s and I completely believe him. Because calcium, vitamin K and things that increase DHEA while lowering prolactin are improving my facial features, broadening my jaw, and I think actually expanding my spine... even though I stopped growing a long time ago.

 

[Cirion]

Just worrying about physical appearance shows a lack of androgens/metabolism IMO now.

You can be a 300-400 lb piece of lard with a mediocre face and everything, but having an exceptional metabolism/confidence (Yes, contrary to belief, this is possible--although in the process of an optimal metabolism said piece of lard will probably start to lose the weight and won't stay a piece of lard... But that's besides the point I'm trying to make), and still be more successful with women than the 6'6" Adonis / ripped model who is constantly depressed and has no confidence. Being ripped will not make you happy. I know from first-hand experience. I did start to get more glances from women, but I didn't care because all I cared about was food and sleep... and getting even more ripped...

 

[Oraganic4me]

I was reading an article about Haley Berry, in this article she credited the Ketogenic diet to her graceful aging...
I don’t buy it ... rugged good looks ... graceful aging.... it’s all genetic my dear and a good Hollywood stylist doesn’t hurt either.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I was reading an article about Haley Berry, in this article she credited the Ketogenic diet to her graceful aging...
I don’t buy it ... rugged good looks ... graceful aging.... it’s all genetic my dear and a good Hollywood stylist doesn’t hurt either.

Yeah, I'd say getting influenced by celebrities on nutrition is not a good bet. You can find arguments on both sides of the spectrum (Keto <<>> Plant-based).
First, anything that keeps you slim and at an optimal weight is better for aging than being overweight or underweight.
She also probably has access to experts in skincare, haircare.

 

[ilhanxx]

girls like men who look like their fathers. To a survey in turkey, %79 girls dont like muscle man, they like a little belly fat men. every girl is different like every culture's code is different. height is important, good telling lies is important. There is an old saying. Men like with their eyes, Women like with their ears. You can not change most of thing, You can loose weight, You can increase your skin quality, But until a upper limit.