How high can I go on exemestan?

[Epik]

I'm about 100 pounds overweight and I was wondering if it's safe to take 100mg or even 300mg of exemestane. I've looked up the side effects and most claims of liver issues are supported with case studies, but non of them was due to exemestane alone. I'm taking a lower dose and noticed benefits with liver function but the issues seem to have come back. Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[Frankdee20]

I'm about 100 pounds overweight and I was wondering if it's safe to take 100mg or even 300mg of exemestane. I've looked up the side effects and most claims of liver issues are supported with case studies, but non of them was due to exemestane alone. I'm taking a lower dose and noticed benefits with liver function but the issues seem to have come back. Any ideas?

Thanks!

What do you seek to get out of using this ? You don’t need such a high dose, especially if you aren’t using testosterone. Even if you were, that’s a high dose.

 

[conrad0602]

At those doses your mental and physical health will suffer tremendously. 5mg a day is more than enough. Be careful with it.

 

[milkboi]

It’s not worth it dosing over 25 mg ED because at that point its aromatase inhibition effect is almost maxed out. 100 mg/d is ridiculous and will probably do more harm than good for your liver

 

[Frankdee20]

Yeah, 2-5 MG per day or a 25 MG tablet twice a week is enough. It’s an irreversible inhibitor of aromatase, unlike the others, so watch out.

 

[AspiringSage]

I'm about 100 pounds overweight and I was wondering if it's safe to take 100mg or even 300mg of exemestane. I've looked up the side effects and most claims of liver issues are supported with case studies, but non of them was due to exemestane alone. I'm taking a lower dose and noticed benefits with liver function but the issues seem to have come back. Any ideas?

Thanks!

No, I don’t think it’s safe and I think it could be very, very harmful. Exemestane metabolizes down to a boldenone like anabolic steroid. So, you would basically be using exemestane as an unstudied and uncharacterized ‘prohormone’. You would likely suppress your natural testosterone production significantly or nearly completely in only a few weeks.

This is basically the worst TRT or steroid cycle I could imagine, short of rage popping halotestin with methyl trenbolone pre-workout. I think the closest you will come to actual evidence or experience for what this might be like is a “boldenone only cycle” aka “equipoise only cycle” aka “EQ only cycle” with the addition of serious liver or kidney harm.

Injectable boldenone is used by bodybuilders and athletes as an add-on for cycles of testosterone. It’s used to control estrogen and as a drying agent to decrease fluid retention. At high doses, it becomes inflammatory and is known to cause excessive red blood cell production. When used without a testosterone base, it can reck your joints, crash your sex drive, trigger mental disturbances, cause high blood pressure, etc. When used at excessive doses injectable boldenone often causes undetectably low estrogen. It needs to be run with significant quantities of injectable testosterone, sometimes even with low dose oral estrogen.

Even this characterized form of boldenone comes with kidney risks at higher doses/cycle lengths. Who knows how any of this might apply to its quasi prohormone cousin at high doses. The relative safety of exemestane is probably driven in large part by the low doses in common use. You are messing with a powerful steroidal drug. Treat it and your body with respect.

Take it from someone who’s lab ferret has experience with steroids. Check his post history, my lab ferret really likes exemestane, he also likes his liver, kidneys, joints and sanity. . . Please don’t take excessive quantities of exemestane. If you want to do steroids then there are a hundred better ways to do steroids.

Edited to add: When I get a spare minute, I’ll link some videos that touch on why boldenone only cycles are a bad idea. I can’t imagine adding the stress of having ones liver make a quisi boldenone locally - straight up toxic.

 

[AspiringSage]

If you want to lose weight with chemical assistance there are many, many substances that come to mind before high doses of exemestane e.g. low dose cycles of clenbuterol, yohimbine hcl, ozympec, higher dose cycles of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin. All have safety implications; but, at least you are on well trodden ground. Heck even full blown TRT/HRT (HCG, testosterone, T4, T3) with proper control of estrogen via a great aromatase inhibitor like exemestane ;-)

 

[Epik]

No, I don’t think it’s safe and I think it could be very, very harmful. Exemestane metabolizes down to a boldenone like anabolic steroid. So, you would basically be using exemestane as an unstudied and uncharacterized ‘prohormone’. You would likely suppress your natural testosterone production significantly or nearly completely in only a few weeks.

This is basically the worst TRT or steroid cycle I could imagine, short of rage popping halotestin with methyl trenbolone pre-workout. I think the closest you will come to actual evidence or experience for what this might be like is a “boldenone only cycle” aka “equipoise only cycle” aka “EQ only cycle” with the addition of serious liver or kidney harm.

Injectable boldenone is used by bodybuilders and athletes as an add-on for cycles of testosterone. It’s used to control estrogen and as a drying agent to decrease fluid retention. At high doses, it becomes inflammatory and is known to cause excessive red blood cell production. When used without a testosterone base, it can reck your joints, crash your sex drive, trigger mental disturbances, cause high blood pressure, etc. When used at excessive doses injectable boldenone often causes undetectably low estrogen. It needs to be run with significant quantities of injectable testosterone, sometimes even with low dose oral estrogen.

Even this characterized form of boldenone comes with kidney risks at higher doses/cycle lengths. Who knows how any of this might apply to its quasi prohormone cousin at high doses. The relative safety of exemestane is probably driven in large part by the low doses in common use. You are messing with a powerful steroidal drug. Treat it and your body with respect.

Take it from someone who’s lab ferret has experience with steroids. Check his post history, my lab ferret really likes exemestane, he also likes his liver, kidneys, joints and sanity. . . Please don’t take excessive quantities of exemestane. If you want to do steroids then there are a hundred better ways to do steroids.

Edited to add: When I get a spare minute, I’ll link some videos that touch on why boldenone only cycles are a bad idea. I can’t imagine adding the stress of having ones liver make a quisi boldenone locally - straight up toxic.

Interesting, thanks for the info, I'll be interested to see the videos

 

[AspiringSage]

Again this is a crude and speculative analogy based on the fact that exemestane metabolizes into a boldenone like anabolic steroid. This completely misses the toxic layer inherit in forcing your liver to make the boldenone like metabolite. It also misses the fact that exemestane’s metabolite isn’t actually boldenone.

I am not trying to be alarmist, I really think you’d literally poison yourself with 300mg of exemestane.

Discussion of side effects picks up a few minutes in More Plates More Dates - Feels What it Fells Like To Be On Equipoise

The Anabolic Doc - Equipoise the Horse Steroid - Doctor's Analysis of Side Effects & Properties

Why I Will Never Use EQ Again (Know This Before Using Equipoise/Boldenone)

Also, are you proposing to use 300mg/week or 300mg day? Both sound toxic, one is a ticket to the hospital, the other straight to the ER post haste.

 

[golder]

Again this is a crude and speculative analogy based on the fact that exemestane metabolizes into a boldenone like anabolic steroid. This completely misses the toxic layer inherit in forcing your liver to make the boldenone like metabolite. It also misses the fact that exemestane’s metabolite isn’t actually boldenone.

I am not trying to be alarmist, I really think you’d literally poison yourself with 300mg of exemestane.

Discussion of side effects picks up a few minutes in More Plates More Dates - Feels What it Fells Like To Be On Equipoise

The Anabolic Doc - Equipoise the Horse Steroid - Doctor's Analysis of Side Effects & Properties

Why I Will Never Use EQ Again (Know This Before Using Equipoise/Boldenone)

Also, are you proposing to use 300mg/week or 300mg day? Both sound toxic, one is a ticket to the hospital, the other straight to the ER post haste.

Sage, you seem to know quite a lot about the anabolic lifestyle. I enjoy reading your posts and wondered your opinion, when considered through a Peat influenced lens, what adjuncts to TRT I could use to aid in muscle building?

 

[:M :B.]

Haidut talks about Exemestane at the 1hr 29minute mark here. No warnings or anything. Hmmm

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[pineywoodrooter]

Yeah, 2-5 MG per day or a 25 MG tablet twice a week is enough. It’s an irreversible inhibitor of aromatase, unlike the others, so watch out.

"Irreversible" would make me stay away from it, personally.

 

[AspiringSage]

Haidut talks about Exemestane at the 1hr 29minute mark here. No warnings or anything. Hmmm

#110 - Why your skin is a reflection of your internal health with Emma Sgourakis & Georgi Dinkov from Weight Loss For Women: eat more, train less, get results | Podcast Episode on Podbay

Listen to #110 - Why your skin is a reflection of your internal health with Emma Sgourakis & Georgi Dinkov, an episode of Weight Loss For Women: eat more, train less, get results, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web.

podbay.fm

Good find, perhaps I am being excessively cautious from a toxicology point of view. Phizer has this to say:

“10 OVERDOSAGE

Clinical trials have been conducted with exemestane given as a single dose to healthy female volunteers at doses as high as 800 mg and daily for 12 weeks to postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer at doses as high as 600 mg. These dosages were well tolerated. There is no specific antidote to overdosage and treatment must be symptomatic. General supportive care, including frequent monitoring of vital signs and close observation of the patient, is indicated.

A male child (age unknown) accidentally ingested a 25-mg tablet of exemestane. The initial physical examination was normal, but blood tests performed 1 hour after ingestion indicated leucocytosis (WBC 25000/mm3 with 90% neutrophils). Blood tests were repeated 4 days after the incident and were normal. No treatment was given.

In mice, mortality was observed after a single oral dose of exemestane of 3200 mg/kg, the lowest dose tested (about 640 times the recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis). In rats and dogs, mortality was observed after single oral doses of exemestane of 5000 mg/kg (about 2000 times the recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis) and of 3000 mg/kg (about 4000 times the recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis), respectively.

Convulsions were observed after single doses of exemestane of 400 mg/kg and 3000 mg/kg in mice and dogs (approximately 80 and 4000 times the recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis), respectively.”

Phizer - AROMASIN®Overdosage (exemestane)

Those were one time doses. . . I still wouldn’t do it, let alone take 300mg daily or weekly. There are much better and safer ways to drop weight with chemical or steroidal assistance.

 

[AspiringSage]

"Irreversible" would make me stay away from it, personally.

At sane doses of exemestane most people seem to recover from a deep estrogen crashes in a few weeks at most. This can be complicated by a simultaneous lack of testosterone to act as a substrate for conversion. So, you either have to have natural production or synthetic replacement of testosterone or the enzyme (fast as levels might recover) doesn’t have anything to act on. Some of the old school bodybuilders simply added a little bit of oral dianabol to provide a substrate for conversion - the result is a synthetic quasi estrogen. More recently, I’ve read accounts of some people taking micro doses of oral estrogen to backfill from deep crash’s.

Deep estrogen crash’s can be avoided by keeping doses sane, changing things slowly, paying attention to how you feel, testing and titrating, etc.

I am not saying any of this is a good idea; but, I wouldn’t shy away from exemestane because it’s suicidal aromatase inhibitor. My lab ferret uses a few mg every other day with great results.

 

[AspiringSage]

Sage, you seem to know quite a lot about the anabolic lifestyle. I enjoy reading your posts and wondered your opinion, when considered through a Peat influenced lens, what adjuncts to TRT I could use to aid in muscle building?

Holy thread hijack Batman!

I am newer to peating, I stumbled on Ray Peat while trying to learn more about diet, metabolism, seed oils, inflammation, and nurosteoids, etc. The range and depth of knowledge on this forum is humbling. I am still midway on a journey from fat sick and nearly dead to ripped, fit and healthy. I’ve also had a few false starts on this path. So, I am hesitant to speak on any compatibility between the ideas of Ray Peat and anabolic steroids.

I am happy to share a few thoughts on TRT add-ons though. At this moment, in my research and experience and bearing in mind that a lot of this is situation and goal dependent, generally:

*bio available protein!
- consider bromelain to aid in digestion
*low dose HCG, say 250 units 2 x week (at least a little bit of natural production is good and may have unknown secondary benefits, it’s sort of a protoestrogen though so watch the dose)
*normal doses of exemestane (an excellent AI)
*favor enclomiphene over clomid or tamoxifen for PCT (I think it has less side effects)
*DHT gel or using topical testosterone gel to increase DHT
*think it’s much safer to use an injectable or a topical vs an oral
*favor simply using more testosterone instead of exotic anabolic steroids (many metabolites of synthetic anabolic steroids are long lived, poorly characterized and possibly harmful) though at times I might consider adding:
- low dose boldenone (watch kidneys, inflammation and RBCs).
- primobolan
*low dose DHEA (particularly if older, watch the estrogen conversion)
*pregnanolone (nurosteroids matter!)
*allopregnanolone (ditto!)
*mildrinate (used cyclically for bulking/muscle building)
*low dose metformin (used cyclically/for both weight loss and bulking/as an insulin sensitizer)
- Boost Your Biology/Lucas Aoun has some interesting thoughts on the topic
*very low dose clenbuterol (used cyclically for cutting/weight loss and as a glucose metabolism modifier/non-traditional builder of skeletal muscle
*yohimbine hcl (used cyclically for cutting/weight loss)
*T3 (cutting/weight loss/systemicly at a low dose/boost base metabolic rate
*very pro asprin for numerous reasons
*tentatively pro suppression of TSH
*tentatively pro suppressing iron levels via blood donation
*advocate for B1, B6 supplementation
*advocate for monitoring prolactin levels when depression or motivation issues are in play

Be careful stacking stimulates. . . to recap, sort out your diet, sort out your sleep, never run an oral when you can run a topical/injectable, control your estrogen levels, control your prolactin levels, never run an exotic anabolic steroid when more testosterone will do and pay attention to your thyroid!

Or so my lab ferret says in Minecraft ;-)

 

[:M :B.]

Good find, perhaps I am being excessively cautious from a toxicology point of view. Phizer has this to say:

“10 OVERDOSAGE

Clinical trials have been conducted with exemestane given as a single dose to healthy female volunteers at doses as high as 800 mg and daily for 12 weeks to postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer at doses as high as 600 mg. These dosages were well tolerated. There is no specific antidote to overdosage and treatment must be symptomatic. General supportive care, including frequent monitoring of vital signs and close observation of the patient, is indicated.

A male child (age unknown) accidentally ingested a 25-mg tablet of exemestane. The initial physical examination was normal, but blood tests performed 1 hour after ingestion indicated leucocytosis (WBC 25000/mm3 with 90% neutrophils). Blood tests were repeated 4 days after the incident and were normal. No treatment was given.

In mice, mortality was observed after a single oral dose of exemestane of 3200 mg/kg, the lowest dose tested (about 640 times the recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis). In rats and dogs, mortality was observed after single oral doses of exemestane of 5000 mg/kg (about 2000 times the recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis) and of 3000 mg/kg (about 4000 times the recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis), respectively.

Convulsions were observed after single doses of exemestane of 400 mg/kg and 3000 mg/kg in mice and dogs (approximately 80 and 4000 times the recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis), respectively.”

Phizer - AROMASIN®Overdosage (exemestane)

Those were one time doses. . . I still wouldn’t do it, let alone take 300mg daily or weekly. There are much better and safer ways to drop weight with chemical or steroidal assistance.

Yea I hear ya on the cautious approach. Since I don't know anything about this stuff I got nothin too add other than hearing Georgi talk about it.
When he mentions taking 3-4 drops every couple days or randomly if someone wants to drink or whatever I am guessing the dose per drop is about 1mg of exemestane. I'm basing this off of the products i am seeing out there for sale.

Many of them come in 30ml dropper bottles at 25mg x 30ml.
that's 750mg in the bottle and i googled that there are 600 drops per 30mL of solution.
So that's 1.25mg exemestane Per drop.

 

[Epik]

If you want to lose weight with chemical assistance there are many, many substances that come to mind before high doses of exemestane e.g. low dose cycles of clenbuterol, yohimbine hcl, ozympec, higher dose cycles of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin. All have safety implications; but, at least you are on well trodden ground. Heck even full blown TRT/HRT (HCG, testosterone, T4, T3) with proper control of estrogen via a great aromatase inhibitor like exemestane ;-)

I'm not looking for any beta agonists, I have already some issues with high adrenaline. I take thyroid, aspirin and caffeine from coffee pretty often already. Mostly looking for something faster for liver health since I don't have motivation to stick to a program for 6-8 months. Maybe I should look for pharma solutions for dopamine lol

 

[Epik]

I've been of exemestane and I can feel some weird tingle or pinch around my testis. I think AspiringSage is right about the suppression, loading up pregnenolone seems to be fixing it

 

[DeadCatBounce]

Once I took 25mg ED while on TRT for about 2 weeks and crashed my estrogen so low I could not stop sleeping due to extremely low energy. Also had wrinkles forming and brittle hair - became ugly for a very short period of time. Acne appeared and super dark circles around eyes, aged 25-30 years in the span of a week or so. As soon as E went back up (used HCG and higher T dosage to recovery quicker) all problems reversed completely. Took a couple of weeks in which I thought I ****88 up for good. 100mg to 300mg looks like absolutely frickin nutz. I would never do it even if someone paid me billions of $. It is THAT bad.

 

[AspiringSage]

I've been of exemestane and I can feel some weird tingle or pinch around my testis. I think AspiringSage is right about the suppression, loading up pregnenolone seems to be fixing it

Tingling or a dull pain is a classical sign of shut down associated with anabolic steroids. Some people who’ve had a vasectomy report similar feelings. Has the feeling persisted or passed?

Pregnenolone will help, time will help. Anything that boosts LH (tamoxifen, enclomiphene) or substitutes (HCG) will generally help with recovery. If the feeling has persisted consider looking up “post cycle therapy” or “PCT protocols” on forums. Also consider a LH/FSH/Total T, Free T test in a few weeks. Obviously, I feel like I have to say, see a mens health doc or an endocrinologist if things don’t improve. If the feeling has passed then don’t do that again. There are plenty of better ways to do do steroids than overdosing on exemestane.

I’ve read one study out of the Netherlands that didn’t observe a significant improvement from PCT protocols. At least in terms of the speed of recovery. This goes contrary to a lot of experience though. My lab ferret has had good experiences with HCG and enclomiphene.

Many steroid using gym bros swear by PCT protocols. So, your experiences may vary. On a herbal angle burdock root tea stimulates LH, so there is a natural angle in addition to pregnenolone.