How have we not solved the topic of growing in height ? I find it hard to believe it is just "genetics"

[Gadsie]

I think the stretching has been studied already and proven not work, right? It only gives temporary height gain I think

 

[AsAbove.SoBelow]

I've heard anecdotally that many people grew taller by sleeping a lot, megadosing vitamin D (I would assume adding K2 would make things better), and eating tons of food.
This study found that those who drink 3-4 cups of milk daily grew taller than those who drank less: Milk and dairy consumption is positively associated with height in adolescents: results from the Israeli National Youth Health and Nutrition Survey - PubMed

 

[JamesGatz]

I think the stretching has been studied already and proven not work, right? It only gives temporary height gain I think

I think this is the question of the hour - the thing about limb lengthening surgery - 0.25 millimeters of stress factures are created per day of the bone - with 2-3 inches of added length in the leg over the span of a few months - I think this method may help support Wolff's law - that stress ot even pressure around this bone changes the deposition to be longer - I am thinking stretching has to do something to the bone as well - would it be creating very tiny micro stress fractures I think is the question - I am not sure if the bone even needs to be fractured - I think maybe the mere act of stretching encourages some bone re-modeling via different pressure that helps grow taller over-time - I find so many anecdotal experiences of inches in adulthood - I notice I feel taller for some brief moments after stretching - I would imagine stretching a little bit every day for a year would definitely do something but I am not sure - it seems to be all anecdotal experiences - I am starting to test this theory every morning - I think we will see if there is a difference in my height in maybe 6 months or a year

I've heard anecdotally that many people grew taller by sleeping a lot, megadosing vitamin D (I would assume adding K2 would make things better), and eating tons of food.
This study found that those who drink 3-4 cups of milk daily grew taller than those who drank less: Milk and dairy consumption is positively associated with height in adolescents: results from the Israeli National Youth Health and Nutrition Survey - PubMed

Yes I am really thinking androgens is the main driver of growth here - Vitamin D, K2, milk - many of these things i see being mentioned in growing larger in general for extremities and height - all androgenic - I am currently keeping androgens on the higher end I would say but I am also High Progesterone - I feel light years better when I am high progesterone combined with androgens

 

[Gadsie]

I think this is the question of the hour - the thing about limb lengthening surgery - 0.25 millimeters of stress factures are created per day of the bone - with 2-3 inches of added length in the leg over the span of a few months - I think this method may help support Wolff's law - that stress ot even pressure around this bone changes the deposition to be longer - I am thinking stretching has to do something to the bone as well - would it be creating very tiny micro stress fractures I think is the question - I am not sure if the bone even needs to be fractured - I think maybe the mere act of stretching encourages some bone re-modeling via different pressure that helps grow taller over-time - I find so many anecdotal experiences of inches in adulthood - I notice I feel taller for some brief moments after stretching - I would imagine stretching a little bit every day for a year would definitely do something but I am not sure - it seems to be all anecdotal experiences - I am starting to test this theory every morning - I think we will see if there is a difference in my height in maybe 6 months or a year

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Yes I am really thinking androgens is the main driver of growth here - Vitamin D, K2, milk - many of these things i see being mentioned in growing larger in general for extremities and height - all androgenic - I am currently keeping androgens on the higher end I would say but I am also High Progesterone - I feel light years better when I am high progesterone combined with androgens

I still think it's farfetched that it will work, but who knows. I think you should stretch by hanging in that case, since you want to stretch every bone of the body, not just the legs. Another issue to think about is the amount of force to optimally apply. I know that in orthodontics, applying too much force actually has a counterproductive effect, where your bone starts to sort of "resist" movement. So perhaps hanging from a bar is good, but you wouldn't want to hang a weight from your legs either.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

In bodybuilding, shorter heights are an advantage, that's why most are in the 5'7 - 5'11'' range. Traditional exercises also work best for shorter men.
I'd also imagine that years of doing heavy barbell squats will compress the spine / intervertebral discs, and result in some loss of height.

 

[JamesGatz]

I still think it's farfetched that it will work, but who knows. I think you should stretch by hanging in that case, since you want to stretch every bone of the body, not just the legs. Another issue to think about is the amount of force to optimally apply. I know that in orthodontics, applying too much force actually has a counterproductive effect, where your bone starts to sort of "resist" movement. So perhaps hanging from a bar is good, but you wouldn't want to hang a weight from your legs either.

Yes I have been testing with hanging I agree - I think this addresses the arm extension with the height if it does work - yes I agree I am going to go real nice and slow - I agree it does sound far-fetched but when I think of these twins I knew in my life and everything I've learned from RP I am keeping an open mind on everything these days - I do think my hormonal profile/metabolism right now is ideal to support this growth it it's possible - I will start to measure myself in 6 months to see if I notice anything

In bodybuilding, shorter heights are an advantage, that's why most are in the 5'7 - 5'11'' range. Traditional exercises also work best for shorter men.
I'd also imagine that years of doing heavy barbell squats will compress the spine / intervertebral discs, and result in some loss of height.

Yes I agree - I do find it odd that many bodybuilders I meet tend to be quiet short - especially the heavy squatters I knew in my life - tall guys tend to be lanky but there are definitely many exceptions so i don't know - I really do think anything is possible and that the world is a lot more simple than people would like to think

 

[Gadsie]

Yes I have been testing with hanging I agree - I think this addresses the arm extension with the height if it does work - yes I agree I am going to go real nice and slow - I agree it does sound far-fetched but when I think of these twins I knew in my life and everything I've learned from RP I am keeping an open mind on everything these days - I do think my hormonal profile/metabolism right now is ideal to support this growth it it's possible - I will start to measure myself in 6 months to see if I notice anything


Yes I agree - I do find it odd that many bodybuilders I meet tend to be quiet short - especially the heavy squatters I knew in my life - tall guys tend to be lanky but there are definitely many exceptions so i don't know - I really do think anything is possible and that the world is a lot more simple than people would like to think

I am 100% sure that proper metabolism helps height growth in puberty, the question is if it can change afterwards. I remember ray peat talking about oxygen pressure activiating stem cells in one of his newspapers. He described that bone marrow has a relatively low oxygen pressure, and that that is why blood cells can endlessly regenerate. Perhaps reducing oxygen pressure/increasing CO2 pressure around the epiphyseal lines could activate stem cells there, and reactivate growth plates. The question is how would you do that.

 

[rr1]

I am 100% sure that proper metabolism helps height growth in puberty, the question is if it can change afterwards. I remember ray peat talking about oxygen pressure activiating stem cells in one of his newspapers. He described that bone marrow has a relatively low oxygen pressure, and that that is why blood cells can endlessly regenerate. Perhaps reducing oxygen pressure/increasing CO2 pressure around the epiphyseal lines could activate stem cells there, and reactivate growth plates. The question is how would you do that.

How about sitting in a garbage bag filled with CO2 like what Ray Peat does while he is working at his computer?

 

[eat my peat]

Surely just taking aspirin daily would help increase height due to more carbon dioxide over lactic acid ….

 

[LucyL]

Taller people eat more protein, and their parents eat more protein. Taller people also sleep more, naps during the day. Most growth is during sleep.

I see a lot of asian adults who grew up in this country who absolutely tower over their tiny old country parents.

 

[Shackles]

I am 100% sure that proper metabolism helps height growth in puberty, the question is if it can change afterwards. I remember ray peat talking about oxygen pressure activiating stem cells in one of his newspapers. He described that bone marrow has a relatively low oxygen pressure, and that that is why blood cells can endlessly regenerate. Perhaps reducing oxygen pressure/increasing CO2 pressure around the epiphyseal lines could activate stem cells there, and reactivate growth plates. The question is how would you do that.

It would be helpful if those few stem cells do not turn to a reductive state. I think if they can oxidate properly then the CO2 created could help decalcify the neighbouring cells too over time.

 

[Apple]

When I was in the first class of elementary school I was already tallest guy. I often was ill with cold, angina, clogged nose. My diet was nothing special ... lots of pasta, bread, potato, PUFA, margarine. I didn't tolerate well milk but always consumed a bit.
Basically you don't need a "Peaty" nutrition/high metabolism to grow tall.
After 12-13 yo I was into bodybuilding , liked doing heavy squats occasionally, also jogging, my digestion was always weak, so I could never get enough calories and had low energy.
I grew 6ft 1.7in

 

[Dr. B]

I have shared this with the forum previously - but I knew a pair of identical twins in my life - one grew up in Florida whom I went to school with and the other grew up in the NorthEast - I think it was New York- the twin in Florida grew to be 6"4 and the one in the NorthEast grew to be 5"7 - I still talk to the taller one and was telling him to see if he could get into the Guinness book of world records for different sizes of twins because they have this subject in there - his parents are not taller than 5"9 - they developed completely different - they don't even look related

I am thinking about this topic in height and I am looking at pictures of twins separated at birth or even ones that lived together:

The Sprouse twins (one is 5"10 and the other is 6"0) - they seem to have spent all their younger years together but 2 inches seems like a considerable difference for people with the same genetics no ?

View attachment 30210

These twins were separated at birth then reunited as adults - they said that the taller twin was 1 inch taller - they look very different - no surprise to me they look different in the face from years of different diet and jaw/oral posture but they seem to have noticeable difference in height as well:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uWmDvs_FQA&ab_channel=TODAY



I was looking at Limb-Lengthening Surgery - the procedure seems to drill a metal rod in the leg which separates the bone little by little each day resulting in maybe an extra 2-3 inches in height - to me this procedure seems very dangerous because i think if one grows taller their organs should grow as well proportionally right ? Therefore if it doesn't happen naturally it sounds like it could be dangerous

View attachment 30211

All this procedure seems to do is Damage the bone by "stretching" out the bone while the body creates more bone in the leg to catch up to the fracture to make it longer - I am thinking - I have read many stories on the internet of people just stretching their legs everyday like just regular stretches and saying they grew taller over a few years by a few inches - it seems to have a similar mechanism to LLS? Pulling on a body part makes it grow ? I find it hard to believe that people that grow very tall get there by stretching - their organs are bigger - their has to be some factor at play here that ends up growing everything - height, organs, hands, feet, genitals, etc. - I know that if I were to grow taller I would like to have larger hands, feet, and genitals to be proportionate

Then I made this thread a while back - sea animals in deeper depths (higher CO2 levels) grow considerably larger:

Deep Sea Gigantism - Could Carbon Dioxide/metabolism play a role in deep-sea animals gigantic size

Deep-Sea Gigantism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-sea_gigantism " In zoology, deep-sea gigantism is the tendency for species of invertebrates and other deep-sea dwelling animals to be larger than their shallower-water relatives across a large taxonomic range. Proposed explanations for this...

raypeatforum.com

Is it all just metabolism ? If it is just metabolism I would think maybe RP would be considerably tall - he is still 6 foot I think I read so I would not doubt it


How about these giants which all died young :

1. Robert Wadlow – 8 ft 11 in (2 m 72 cm) -
he suffered from hypertrophy of the pituitary gland, causing him to produce massive amounts of human growth hormone.

View attachment 30213

​

2. Vikas Uppal – 8 ft 3 in (2 m 51 cm) (Contested)

Not withstanding such debate, tragically, Uppal died on the operating table on June 30, 2007, when doctors tried unsuccessfully to remove a tumor from his brain.

3. John F. Carroll – 8 ft 7.5 in (2 m 63 cm) -
Carroll was afflicted with acromegalic gigantism and suffered a lot during his short life, especially when it came to his spine: he had a bad case of two-dimensional spinal curvature, also known as kyphoscoliosis.

4. Väinö Myllyrinne – 8 ft 3 in (2 m 51 cm) -

The Finnish colossus suffered from acromegaly, which frequently leads to gigantism and abnormal growth. Myllyrinne was confirmed as the tallest living man in the world from 1940 until his death at the age of 54. His hands were also an incredible 15.7 inches wide, which is the largest recorded hand span in history.
​

5. Edouard Beaupré – 8 ft 3 in (2 m 51 cm) -​

Doctors who examined Beauprà post mortem found that he was suffering from a pituitary gland tumor. They also discovered that he hadn't stopped growing until his premature death at the age of 23.


6. Brahim Takioullah – 8 ft 1 in (2 m 46 cm)
Takioullah was born in Morocco in 1982, and his size is the result of a tumor that affects his pituitary gland.

The tumor has increased the levels of human growth hormone in Takioullah's system, and the effects are there for all to see. The Moroccan giant's condition was diagnosed when he was 18, after a school doctor concerned about his "unusual" size suggested that he should get a blood test.


7. Don Koehler – 8 ft 2 in (2 m 49 cm) -
Towards the end of his life, Koehler suffered from kyphosis, which reduced his stature through curvature of the spine. He died in Chicago at the age of 55 from a reported heart condition. By then his height had shrunk to 7 ft 10 in.​

​

8. Bernard Coyne – 8 ft 2 in (2 m 49 cm) -​

He suffered from eunuchoidal infantile gigantism, which is an extremely rare condition commonly referred to as daddy-longlegs syndrome.

Coyne's exact height at the time of his death is still unconfirmed. According to his WWI registration card, he was already 8-ft tall in 1918, at which time he was just 21 years old. When he died in 1921, aged 23



So what is going on here ? All these men of giant size all have pituary problems or brain tumors or kyphosis ?

There has to be some underlying cause - I'm thinking there has to be something causing this - every single one of them died very young so clearly there is something very wrong happening, but what about men that grow to 6"4 and such ? I'm thinking there has to be a factor

There is so many conflicting information out there on height and size for humans and animals - could it all be just Testosterone ?

Testosterone seems to be the main driver of growth for sexual dimorphic traits for nearly all mammals (i.e. elephant seals, peacocks, nearly any animal doesn't even have to be a mammal !)

View attachment 30212

I was looking at pictures of women that inject anabolic steroids the other day and their hands and feet grow considerably large ? I am not sure if they get taller as well but I wouldn't doubt it

Is it all really just testosterone ?

I would think if it is androgens then high-androgenic males would grow a few inches over some years but that doesn't seem to be true in every case - it would seem then bodybuilders would grow very tall - I have a very hard time believing this is all genetics - there has to be a root cause - there has to something driving this growth reacting with the environment but what is it ? I cannot seem to piece it together - all this information I see on the internet is so conflicting ... it has to make sense and be logical

They say your bones "fuse" after puberty but I have a hard time believing that as well - they say that about the skull as well and that is completely false based on my own experimentation it is definitely possible for the skull to go through major changes well into adulthood - Ray Peat says he grew taller living in the mountains and I think when he was taking DHEA as well - what is causing the growth ? It has to be something here


Taller men across the board tend to have larger hands, feet and genitals more commonly and larger organs - So I am not really inclined to think that stretching does all these effects - something has to be driving all these things ... For example Andre the Giant - his skull is very large



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ82JLb84ms&ab_channel=AWAstuff





​

height isnt always increased via health as you mentioned all those freakishly tall people , got the height from hgh. organ size (excluding cancers or whatever) probably determines metabolism, maybe not all organs but maybe brain, genitals, eyes, thyroid, liver etc are associated with higher metabolism as long as all of them are larger together.

supposedly people gain inches on their genitals from jelqing over time. I wonder if there's side effects of some sort from gaining inches of genitals via jelqing instead of having it naturally from androgen production and metabolism?

I think Ray is just 5'10 btw. average height in the US is 5'8?
Rays skull looks pretty large.

there are quite a few taller people who seem very poor metabolically like Shaq for instance and all those tallest men in the world you posted earlier.

How about sitting in a garbage bag filled with CO2 like what Ray Peat does while he is working at his computer?

how does he do that?

 

[JamesGatz]

It seems that those in North America have gotten a lot shorter and those in Europe have gotten a lot taller these past 100 years - diet quality maybe completely shaping this over generations ? That's the only thing I can think of getting worse/better in both areas

Even Africa is getting a lot shorter​

 

[Kayaker]

View attachment 30740

It seems that those in North America have gotten a lot shorter and those in Europe have gotten a lot taller these past 100 years - diet quality maybe completely shaping this over generations ? That's the only thing I can think of getting worse/better in both areas

Even Africa is getting a lot shorter​

Speaking of size, that's one tiny map.

 

[Shackles]

Speaking of size, that's one tiny map.
View attachment 30741

So people got taller in most countries

 

[eat my peat]

Milk , milk , milk … ?

 

[Dr. B]

View attachment 30740

It seems that those in North America have gotten a lot shorter and those in Europe have gotten a lot taller these past 100 years - diet quality maybe completely shaping this over generations ? That's the only thing I can think of getting worse/better in both areas

Even Africa is getting a lot shorter​

the African Maasai tribe and a few other australian tribes apparently could see stars the average man needs telescopes to see and could see things a mile away clearly. their health and abilities declined a lot in the last 100 years due to changing from a raw milk/meat/blood/honey diet to more corns, grains, starches. i think the same thing happened to some native american tribes.

 

[Apple]

the African Maasai tribe and a few other australian tribes apparently could see stars the average man needs telescopes to see and could see things a mile away clearly. their health and abilities declined a lot in the last 100 years due to changing from a raw milk/meat/blood/honey diet to more corns, grains, starches. i think the same thing happened to some native american tribes.

So you are siding with Rinse about starches being detrimental and shouldn't be consumed ?

 

[Dr. B]

So you are siding with Rinse about starches being detrimental and shouldn't be consumed ?

yes, why do you mention rinse. starches seem to cause issues for everyone. they're a filling food, and it seems to be due to their weight and inflammation and slow digestion that they "fill you up" and reduce appetite.