How have we not solved the topic of growing in height ? I find it hard to believe it is just "genetics"

[JamesGatz]

I have shared this with the forum previously - but I knew a pair of identical twins in my life - one grew up in Florida whom I went to school with and the other grew up in the NorthEast - I think it was New York- the twin in Florida grew to be 6"4 and the one in the NorthEast grew to be 5"7 - I still talk to the taller one and was telling him to see if he could get into the Guinness book of world records for different sizes of twins because they have this subject in there - his parents are not taller than 5"9 - they developed completely different - they don't even look related

I am thinking about this topic in height and I am looking at pictures of twins separated at birth or even ones that lived together:

The Sprouse twins (one is 5"10 and the other is 6"0) - they seem to have spent all their younger years together but 2 inches seems like a considerable difference for people with the same genetics no ?

These twins were separated at birth then reunited as adults - they said that the taller twin was 1 inch taller - they look very different - no surprise to me they look different in the face from years of different diet and jaw/oral posture but they seem to have noticeable difference in height as well:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uWmDvs_FQA&ab_channel=TODAY



I was looking at Limb-Lengthening Surgery - the procedure seems to drill a metal rod in the leg which separates the bone little by little each day resulting in maybe an extra 2-3 inches in height - to me this procedure seems very dangerous because i think if one grows taller their organs should grow as well proportionally right ? Therefore if it doesn't happen naturally it sounds like it could be dangerous

All this procedure seems to do is Damage the bone by "stretching" out the bone while the body creates more bone in the leg to catch up to the fracture to make it longer - I am thinking - I have read many stories on the internet of people just stretching their legs everyday like just regular stretches and saying they grew taller over a few years by a few inches - it seems to have a similar mechanism to LLS? Pulling on a body part makes it grow ? I find it hard to believe that people that grow very tall get there by stretching - their organs are bigger - their has to be some factor at play here that ends up growing everything - height, organs, hands, feet, genitals, etc. - I know that if I were to grow taller I would like to have larger hands, feet, and genitals to be proportionate

Then I made this thread a while back - sea animals in deeper depths (higher CO2 levels) grow considerably larger:

Deep Sea Gigantism - Could Carbon Dioxide/metabolism play a role in deep-sea animals gigantic size

Deep-Sea Gigantism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-sea_gigantism " In zoology, deep-sea gigantism is the tendency for species of invertebrates and other deep-sea dwelling animals to be larger than their shallower-water relatives across a large taxonomic range. Proposed explanations for this...

raypeatforum.com

Is it all just metabolism ? If it is just metabolism I would think maybe RP would be considerably tall - he is still 6 foot I think I read so I would not doubt it


How about these giants which all died young :

1. Robert Wadlow – 8 ft 11 in (2 m 72 cm) -
he suffered from hypertrophy of the pituitary gland, causing him to produce massive amounts of human growth hormone.

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2. Vikas Uppal – 8 ft 3 in (2 m 51 cm) (Contested)

Not withstanding such debate, tragically, Uppal died on the operating table on June 30, 2007, when doctors tried unsuccessfully to remove a tumor from his brain.

3. John F. Carroll – 8 ft 7.5 in (2 m 63 cm) -
Carroll was afflicted with acromegalic gigantism and suffered a lot during his short life, especially when it came to his spine: he had a bad case of two-dimensional spinal curvature, also known as kyphoscoliosis.

4. Väinö Myllyrinne – 8 ft 3 in (2 m 51 cm) -

The Finnish colossus suffered from acromegaly, which frequently leads to gigantism and abnormal growth. Myllyrinne was confirmed as the tallest living man in the world from 1940 until his death at the age of 54. His hands were also an incredible 15.7 inches wide, which is the largest recorded hand span in history.
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5. Edouard Beaupré – 8 ft 3 in (2 m 51 cm) -​

Doctors who examined Beauprà post mortem found that he was suffering from a pituitary gland tumor. They also discovered that he hadn't stopped growing until his premature death at the age of 23.


6. Brahim Takioullah – 8 ft 1 in (2 m 46 cm)
Takioullah was born in Morocco in 1982, and his size is the result of a tumor that affects his pituitary gland.

The tumor has increased the levels of human growth hormone in Takioullah's system, and the effects are there for all to see. The Moroccan giant's condition was diagnosed when he was 18, after a school doctor concerned about his "unusual" size suggested that he should get a blood test.


7. Don Koehler – 8 ft 2 in (2 m 49 cm) -
Towards the end of his life, Koehler suffered from kyphosis, which reduced his stature through curvature of the spine. He died in Chicago at the age of 55 from a reported heart condition. By then his height had shrunk to 7 ft 10 in.​

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8. Bernard Coyne – 8 ft 2 in (2 m 49 cm) -​

He suffered from eunuchoidal infantile gigantism, which is an extremely rare condition commonly referred to as daddy-longlegs syndrome.

Coyne's exact height at the time of his death is still unconfirmed. According to his WWI registration card, he was already 8-ft tall in 1918, at which time he was just 21 years old. When he died in 1921, aged 23



So what is going on here ? All these men of giant size all have pituary problems or brain tumors or kyphosis ?

There has to be some underlying cause - I'm thinking there has to be something causing this - every single one of them died very young so clearly there is something very wrong happening, but what about men that grow to 6"4 and such ? I'm thinking there has to be a factor

There is so many conflicting information out there on height and size for humans and animals - could it all be just Testosterone ?

Testosterone seems to be the main driver of growth for sexual dimorphic traits for nearly all mammals (i.e. elephant seals, peacocks, nearly any animal doesn't even have to be a mammal !)

I was looking at pictures of women that inject anabolic steroids the other day and their hands and feet grow considerably large ? I am not sure if they get taller as well but I wouldn't doubt it

Is it all really just testosterone ?

I would think if it is androgens then high-androgenic males would grow a few inches over some years but that doesn't seem to be true in every case - it would seem then bodybuilders would grow very tall - I have a very hard time believing this is all genetics - there has to be a root cause - there has to something driving this growth reacting with the environment but what is it ? I cannot seem to piece it together - all this information I see on the internet is so conflicting ... it has to make sense and be logical

They say your bones "fuse" after puberty but I have a hard time believing that as well - they say that about the skull as well and that is completely false based on my own experimentation it is definitely possible for the skull to go through major changes well into adulthood - Ray Peat says he grew taller living in the mountains and I think when he was taking DHEA as well - what is causing the growth ? It has to be something here


Taller men across the board tend to have larger hands, feet and genitals more commonly and larger organs - So I am not really inclined to think that stretching does all these effects - something has to be driving all these things ... For example Andre the Giant - his skull is very large



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ82JLb84ms&ab_channel=AWAstuff





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[Razvan]

I'm 6foot 4 as well. I think that height growth can be made by stress or by androgens and thyroid. People that are tall but have very thin bones and narrow shoulders and they look too skinny and aged are the people that grew with an overactive pituitary gland,they have huge amounts of TSH and they never eat enough to nourish their "big body",they will have higher adrenaline and especially high histamine. They will be unhealthy in the long run. This is why you see an height growth from 300 years ago,not because we are healthier,but because the body grows from stress. People as I described they are always loosing tissues to produce ATP and they remain very skinny. They usually become already very tall from a really young age.
Whereas there are taller people that grew in a more healthy way, they did have a normal body frame when little,like all the other kids, nothing special,but when they hit puberty they started to grow until 21-22 years old and they are tall,high bone density, broad shoulders,higher metabolic rate and they are very good in some sports,they don't look aged and they have a big appetite without getting easily fat. They probably have higher testosterone and or DHT. This is the healthy tall prototype, unfortunately nowadays there more and more of the first type.

 

[JamesGatz]

I'm 6foot 4 as well. I think that height growth can be made by stress or by androgens and thyroid. People that are tall but have very thin bones and narrow shoulders and they look too skinny and aged are the people that grew with an overactive pituitary gland,they have huge amounts of TSH and they never eat enough to nourish their "big body",they will have higher adrenaline and especially high histamine. They will be unhealthy in the long run. This is why you see an height growth from 300 years ago,not because we are healthier,but because the body grows from stress. People as I described they are always loosing tissues to produce ATP and they remain very skinny. They usually become already very tall from a really young age.
Whereas there are taller people that grew in a more healthy way, they did have a normal body frame when little,like all the other kids, nothing special,but when they hit puberty they started to grow until 21-22 years old and they are tall,high bone density, broad shoulders,higher metabolic rate and they are very good in some sports,they don't look aged and they have a big appetite without getting easily fat. They probably have higher testosterone and or DHT. This is the healthy tall prototype, unfortunately nowadays there more and more of the first type.

I think I agree - I am looking at Robert Wadlow - I find that this small frame and narrow skull common in many very tall men I see - it looks unhealthy - I think maybe this represents the stress growth or pituary gland issue growth

When I look at men and athletes who are generally between 6 feet and 6"5 they look a lot more androgenic - larger skulls - large frame - this looks like healthy growth and high androgenic growth to me

 

[looking2grow96]

There are a few members who've grown a bit. @SonOfEurope from Progesterone and other things, @Lucenzo01 from megadosing fat solubles i believe.

 

[JamesGatz]

There are a few members who've grown a bit. @SonOfEurope from Progesterone and other things, @Lucenzo01 from megadosing fat solubles i believe.

Interesting - in the recent months I have maintained high androgens using both of these (Pansterone, Estroban, K2) My feet have certainly grown - into a size 12 4E -very wide as well and before this I was 10.5 regular width - I am pretty sure my hands and genitals have grown bigger but I have not measured to be honest but it certainly feels bigger than I remember so I think it has - but I feel like the same height still - only time will tell if I grow taller after a year or two - I am starting to really think androgens really drives this but growing taller seems so much more stubborn than growing these other body parts in my view

 

[Androsclerosis]

I remember how I used to stretch every time I was waking up, and coincidentally I became taller than my brother. My cousin who stretched every morning as well, is the tallest of all her siblings.
I am curious to know how I could be if I would start taking pansterone at age 13. More bone density? Taller? I will never know.
Growing taller is genetics + enviroment factors in my opinion.

 

[looking2grow96]

I've been looking for the secrets to post puberty height growth for years ( hence the name) but I've come up short

 

[FitnessMike]

I think that there is genetic potential, and the outcome is determined by multiple factors, at least this is what my common sense tells me.

I'm 6.6, my both brothers are tall too but not as tall, youngest is tallest in most cases I believe. My mom said I was eating 30minutes and then sleeping 30 minutes eating for 30 and sleeping for a long time, i also was fed with mom's boob for a long time, but yes, both on my mom and dad side my family are tall.

Another thing is that i was quite feminine for most of my young life, tall but feminine, then i started lifting heavy ***t and my shoulders got broad, I got all sexy and i have a beard now.

 

[FitnessMike]

I am pretty sure my hands

how old are you?

 

[Ignoramus]

Do you know about Wolff's law?

Just anecdotal, but I've noticed a pattern where the kids that did distance running grew to be tall, the sprinters to be medium and the weight lifters to be short. I think it's about where the pressure is on the bones over time; the body's form follows its function, and most of the forming happens during childhood.

Obviously nutrition is implicated too, but I can't help but think of all the towering basketball players that grew up on cereal and Wonderbread. I think the will and necessity to be tall to succeed in basketball really does grow the body. I also think that the human makes a 'choice' to either be more physical or more cerebral because it has limited energy. It's rare that people with great minds have great skeletal frames and vice verse; maybe those who have both had a great environment, good eustress and great nutrition.

Obviously genetics are implicated too. Think about how those inbred dogs have smushed faces and can't breathe - do you think if you raised one pup of the litter in the perfect environment its face wouldn't be smushed like its parents? It might have some improvement, but the 'base code' matters a lot, I think.

 

[rr1]

Taller people eat more protein, and their parents eat more protein. Taller people also sleep more, naps during the day. Most growth is during sleep.

 

[JamesGatz]

how old are you?

I am 25 - all of this recent growth happened when I was 24-25 and started raising these androgens while also maintaining a good metabolic rate

I remember how I used to stretch every time I was waking up, and coincidentally I became taller than my brother. My cousin who stretched every morning as well, is the tallest of all her siblings.
I am curious to know how I could be if I would start taking pansterone at age 13. More bone density? Taller? I will never know.
Growing taller is genetics + enviroment factors in my opinion.

Do you know about Wolff's law?

Just anecdotal, but I've noticed a pattern where the kids that did distance running grew to be tall, the sprinters to be medium and the weight lifters to be short. I think it's about where the pressure is on the bones over time; the body's form follows its function, and most of the forming happens during childhood.

Obviously nutrition is implicated too, but I can't help but think of all the towering basketball players that grew up on cereal and Wonderbread. I think the will and necessity to be tall to succeed in basketball really does grow the body. I also think that the human makes a 'choice' to either be more physical or more cerebral because it has limited energy. It's rare that people with great minds have great skeletal frames and vice verse; maybe those who have both had a great environment, good eustress and great nutrition.

Obviously genetics are implicated too. Think about how those inbred dogs have smushed faces and can't breathe - do you think if you raised one pup of the litter in the perfect environment its face wouldn't be smushed like its parents? It might have some improvement, but the 'base code' matters a lot, I think.

I was thinking of this very thing the other day - that swimmers and basketball players tend to be quiet tall and at first I was thinking well it's probably because tall people just gravitate towards these things and after looking at LLS and people growing taller by "Stretching" I'm convinced this actually makes a real difference - I do notice that guys I've seen lift heavily in early ages all tend to be quiet short - but yes I do agree that genetics play a role - after all for different breeds of dogs they all tend to be of similar size i.e. a chihuahua never grows into the size of a rottweiler

There seems to be a lot of logical sense in Wolff's law - After all is Limb Lengthening Surgery works - I see absolutely no reason that stretching every day wouldn't have the same effect - it's a similar mechanism in pulling the bone - I am going to start experimenting starting today stretching my legs and arms a little bit each morning and record my results over a year

 

[Androsclerosis]

There seems to be a lot of logical sense in Wolff's law - After all is Limb Lengthening Surgery works - I see absolutely no reason that stretching every day wouldn't have the same effect - it's a similar mechanism in pulling the bone - I am going to start experimenting starting today stretching my legs and arms a little bit each morning and record my results over a year

Keep me updated. Stretching + K2 + Calcium + D3 I strongly believe that you will notice a difference.

 

[Steed]

If I understand correctly, the dogmatic view is that estrogen fuses the growth plates together eventually stoping growth, in line with the test part at least. Perhaps bone itself can grow substantially as proven when breaking them. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[Coderr]

I read on Reddit that someone increased their height by 3 cm with a massage foam applied to their back.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Lotsa sun, lotsa food, and lotsa stretching = maxed out height.

As Razvan stated, there are different phenotypes of tall people, so while getting to 7ft+ the healthy way would likely require several generations' worth of higher CO2 exposure, growing a few inches in your 20s, 30s, or even 40s is probably possible.

I'm 26 and might still be growing very slowly. When I was taking higher amounts of preg and prog I briefly got to 6'1.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Wonder if inversion table stretches would help with this...they probably would if backed by adequate nutrition.

 

[SamYo123]

Replace stretching with functional patterns

 

[JamesGatz]

Replace stretching with functional patterns

Interesting - I have been meaning to get into that for my gait as well - have you grown taller noticeably since applying functional patterns ? I imagine if the spine straightened out and bones were all where they need to be I think that should be an extra inch or two right there

 

[Doer]

Replace stretching with functional patterns

I would sugget goata insted.Search their instagrams(gls coaching or goata coaching) they have found a natural simple yet effective way of moving the body through space which doesnt only focus on the gait.