How Do You Saitiate With No Starch?

[Lizb]

I'm going to try this again, but never feel fed.

Should I also avoid potatoes (well cooked), cooked carrot, cooked turnip and beetroot? - I suppose so if it's going to be zero.

I'm definitely no overweight and don't like to loose any. Thank you.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

You don't.
Unless you go high fat

 

[Lizb]

You don't.
Unless you go high fat[/QUOT

Damn.
Thanks.

 

[Arnold Grape]

I'm going to try this again, but never feel fed.

Should I also avoid potatoes (well cooked), cooked carrot, cooked turnip and beetroot? - I suppose so if it's going to be zero.

I'm definitely no overweight and don't like to loose any. Thank you.

Very difficult to do: I think a better concept is using no/ low starch until your gut reaches a point of rehabilitation — enough to handle the aforementioned foods. This can be a tricky thing to accomplish, but f you can discern specific symptoms when consuming problematic foods that will be a good starting point. Slowly adding foods back in will be key.

 

[Korven]

You don't.
Unless you go high fat

This.

Calories have to come from somewhere when dropping starch and in my experience, consuming lots of milk and dairy products (whole fat) is crucial for providing good satiety + stress resilience and adequate nutrition.

Starch-free + dairy-free was not very sustainable for me.

Even though I was eating lots of fatty meat together with fruit (getting plenty of calories) I was just feeling very off: getting adrenaline rushes and random pangs of anxiety, no stress tolerance, anxious wired feeling in my body, and my sleep also got ruined. Though I know some people do very well on this approach, so it likely depends on the individual.

Now I'm doing mainly lots of whole milk + some meat during evenings and feeling very good with no cravings for starch. A skin problem that has been bothering me for quite some time seems to be clearing up rapidly and if this diet is sustainable I don't think I'll ever change my diet again.

 

[milkbasedvegan]

Beef and Dairy fat + Salt for rock stable energy and sleep and great hormones. Salted butter, goat cheese, salted high fat patties, heavy cream in your milk,

Honey or Fruit when/if you’re going hypoglycemic

 

[Zpol]

I am doing zero starch, low fat (about 30% from calories). Been doing this for about a year. This one diet modification changed my life (I was on the verge of loosing my ability to work, and getting prescribed a slew of dangerous pharmaceuticals). I did not loose weight doing this diet so that's bonus (I also can't afford to loose any weight).

Should I also avoid potatoes (well cooked), cooked carrot, cooked turnip and beetroot? - I suppose so if it's going to be zero.

Yes to eliminating all those except cooked carrots (although they are best eaten raw for the antiseptic and anti-estrogen effects).
You can check out the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (it's a popular zero-starch diet plan for people with bowel inflammation) for a 'legal/illegal' list of what is a starch and what isn't. Only use the list to see which foods are starchy and which aren't, ignore the rest of the diet plan.

I mainly use bananas and dates to feel satiated, no problems with that at all. Might be a good idea to count calories and macros in the beginning so you don't accidentally undereat.

Here's my post on the history of starch-free diets and my thoughts...

When I think about a zero starch diet, I think about Dr. Sydney Haas and Elaine Gottschall. Ray Peat comes to mind only as an afterthought because from what I have researched the aforementioned two have more supporting information and experience implementing a zero starch diet. Ray Peat has additional supporting information on the topic which is helpful and may be just what some people need to be confident enough to self test the approach. Dr. Haas (a NY based pediatrician) could be considered the pioneer of the starch free diet as he started prescribing the diet in 1951 and since has treated over 600 children with Celiac, UC, and Crohn's. He called it the 'banana diet' at the time since he observed that bananas made a good replacement for other typical starchy foods. He also thought the high fruit sugar content of bananas was valuable and even healing for the children he was treating since they often came to him emaciated, malnourished, and in need of lots of calories from sugar. He specified that the bananas must, absolutely must, be extremely ripe. The rest of the diet he prescribed was in line with RP suggestions as well; it was a low fat, high carb, easy to digest diet that consisted of albumin milk, pot cheese, bananas, oranges, vegetables, gelatin, and meat.

He was disheartened when the research into Celiac shifted to indicate gluten as the main inflammatory constituent of wheat and continued to insist it is the starch component that is the problem. He considered research into gluten a "disservice." Dr. Haas treated over 600 children during his practice and worked into his 90's. Much of his research was published in a book called 'Management of Celiac Disease' which he co-authored with his son (not sure how much of it is peer reviewed since can't get hold of it). Elaine Gottschall took the starch free diet to another level, in some ways good and some ways bad. She did make a list of legal and illegal foods and emphasized strict avoidance of additives including thickeners and flow agents (carrageenan, gums, etc). But unfortunately added in some things that aren't so great like nut butters for example and lessened the emphasis on high fruit carb consumption. Her diet is less strict than Dr. Haas but is more inclusive of hard to digest things like vegetables and even some beans. But it's still effective for many people due to it being zero starch.
Link to research can be found here.

Personally, zero starch has saved my life. I have Celiac and I was degenerating fast, my organs weren't functioning, my mind was waning, I thought I would not survive and was too sick to even care. At the time I was following Peat principles as much as possible but avoiding foods that were allergenic to me specifically and could barely keep food down (I was strict GF already for years). Oddly, well cooked starches seemed to be good for me at the time, my temps would go up and my stomach would not hurt any worse than normal when I ate a bowl of well cooked potatoes or rice slathered in butter. I was very mislead by this. I had reduced this meal to evenings only so to maximize high protein and OJ in the daytime meals, but even this small amount of starch per day was keeping me in the state of inflammation and high endotoxin. After I cut that out my health reversed and now I'm getting better every day. A couple days after I quit starch I had a drastic decline in the stomach pain I experienced everyday for years. About a week in, that pain came back with a vengeance and I collapsed on my kitchen floor. My boyfriend said that maybe it's a 'healing crisis' or 'Herximer reaction' and I decided wait till morning and then decide if I should go to urgent care. The next day, better! And continually better since that day. That was about 7 months ago and now I'm back working my normal shift at work and hanging with family and friends.

Here's what I typically eat (I haven't reintroduced dairy yet)...
I start the day with a couple salted bananas (organic, extremely ripe, I try for different varieties than the industrialized cavendish whenever possible), coffee, either Impower PRO Amino capsules or my own mix of Amino Acids + BCAA's (I'd do collagen or gelatin but I get endotoxin effects from them), later I have two salted eggs and a large OJ (Uncle Matt's) plus more Amino Acids + BCAA, then for lunch a low fat beef stew or ground beef dish (containing glycine or bone broth) with extremely well cooked veg (celery, kale, collards, italian parsley, etc, basically ones that are high in vit K and minerals), salted dates or raisins which I usually blend up with some cocoa powder, then an afternoon snack an apple (organic, extremely ripe only) plus a Wild Zora lamb snack or Salt&Pepper Mighty bar plus coffee (I'm usually on the go in the afternoon so this snack portable but maybe not the best), then dinner, carrot salad, bone broth, some kind of low fat meat or fish with a little coconut oil or ghee, OJ or Mexican Coke, Glycine, then an evening snack, usually carrot sticks dipped in Coconut Oil mayo and leftover meat from dinner, glass of grape juice mixed with Gerolsteiner water or Nature's Charm caramel sauce on apples for a treat, usually more bananas and coffee unless I'm full. I try to maintain roughly a 40% carb/30% protein /30% fat macro ratio and never ever let my blood sugar get low. I keep my purse, car, work desk, and to-go bags, stocked with surf sweets gummi bears, meat bars, apples, and/or raisins, honey lozenges.

The biggest challenge in my opinion was learning to cook meat protein sources in a low fat way since I still can't do dairy (flares up psoriasis for me). The Amino Acid + BCAA supplements really help in that regard. I can fill up on fruit and take a tablespoon or so of AA's, add in a large mug of fat-free bone broth and i'm good for at least 3 hours. When I say a lot of fruit, it's a lot more fruit than you would think.

I would like to add that low starch (even small amounts of well cooked potatoes) did not have any beneficial effect for me. Eliminating starch entirely is what finally worked. I had severe bowel inflammation though, people who are generally healthy may not have to go that far.

 

[Jennifer]

I'm going to try this again, but never feel fed.

Should I also avoid potatoes (well cooked), cooked carrot, cooked turnip and beetroot? - I suppose so if it's going to be zero.

I'm definitely no overweight and don't like to loose any. Thank you.

My experience is similar to Korven's and Zpol's. I may be one of the few people here who never found starch satiating (like meat, it tends to crash my blood sugar leaving me ravenous for obscene amounts of carbs to raise it), but I did find fresh cheese like farmer's, cottage and ricotta topped with honey to be extremely satiating so if you tolerate dairy, maybe including cheese in your diet would help? I don't tolerate dairy but found a bean curd that has the same taste, texture, lack of starch and is as satiating as ricotta. Other than that, I find calories (well tolerated ones) in general are what satisfy me most. I require a lot (3000+) and to get that many without starch or a ton of fat (I do best on no more than 20% total), I eat a lot of dense calories from fresh pressed juice, medjool dates, figs and other dried fruit, date syrup, and fruit molasses from grapes, mulberries etc. I consume 4+ liters of juice (at least 1400 calories) and 12+ medjool dates (roughly 70 calories a piece) daily so I'm getting a fair amount of calories just from that.

 

[milkbasedvegan]

Meat is heavily satisfying if there’s enough fat alongside it

all y’all having satiation issues should eat a diet high in sat fat and salt. Cheese, salted butter, keto patties. THAT is satiating

 

[Steve]

I gave up on not eating starch. Finding good fruit to eat all the time is damn near impossible, and it is not nearly as satisfying for me.
I'm not sure if starch is good for humans or not, but it just feels right to me.
I mostly eat rice or potatoes. Also eat some sourdough bread but it doesn't feel as "right" as the potato.
Not very scientific I know, but I just can't quite believe we're not meant to eat starches.
I always liked the site that talked about boiled starches being an essential macronutrient or something like that.
Natalie Zimmerman: "The Woefully Misguided War On Carbohydrates"

 

[cyclops]

Well however many calories a day you were eating from starch, eating them instead in the form of sugar would probably be the closest substitute because they are both carbs. Or you could give those calories to fat or protein but then you'd be getting less carbs then previous. Try it and see how you feel.

 

[Runenight201]

Starch is much better tolerated with a little bit of fat, salt, spices, herbs, and vegetables.

 

[gaze]

salty meat and cheese

 

[Waremu]

If you're avoiding starch, the only way to feel satiated, in my experience, is upping protein, adding some fat, but mostly more protein and whole fruits. Whole melons are very satiating for me. And easy to digest. The fiber in melons almost seem soothing to my gut, if anything. Lately I have been eating a lot of very ripe honeydew melons. They are quite nutritious fruits, and they have plenty of fiber and water content to help fill you up. The melons are low in plant beta-carotene, low PUFA, high in B vitamins, folate, choline, minerals, etc. Ripe bananas, if one handles them well, can also be pretty feeling when pared with protein. I eat moderate fat, but not high fat. Most of my calories come from carbs, then lean proteins. Purple sweet potatoes are the only starch I currently eat. Other than that its mostly fruit for carbs. Sweet potatoes are probably the most satiating carb (potatoes rate the highest on the satiation index). I do find myself going back to fruit though, for carbs, as I feel best that way. I stay away from much dried fruit, since they are not very satiating for me and easily cause me to eat way too many calories, due to being lower in total food volume.

 

[Jennifer]

If you're avoiding starch, the only way to feel satiated, in my experience, is upping protein, adding some fat, but mostly more protein and whole fruits. Whole melons are very satiating for me. And easy to digest. The fiber in melons almost seem soothing to my gut, if anything. Lately I have been eating a lot of very ripe honeydew melons. They are quite nutritious fruits, and they have plenty of fiber and water content to help fill you up. The melons are low in plant beta-carotene, low PUFA, high in B vitamins, folate, choline, minerals, etc.

I totally agree! Melons have been my staple fruit for over a decade. Very gentle on the gut when ripe. I go through at least 4 honeydew and/or canaries a day. I started juicing them last fall when my body was acting all wonky on me and have been juicing them ever since. They make crazy good juice IMHO.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Palamatic Acid and Stearic acid. Cream, butter, and tallow.

Nutrient dense, caloric ally dense.

Sugar, lean Protein, and Coconut oil rip threw nutrients.

Starches, are good vehicles for fat.

 

[jet9]

Great thread, following!

 

[metabolizm]

Tried it, can't make it past a few days. Even the loveliest, ripest fruit could not compete with a bowl of white rice or potatoes or sourdough toast by the third day.

 

[Ania]

I have been on fruit + meat, fish, seafood and eggs diet for almost 3 years now. For fat I use beef tallow and cocoa butter, but not a lot. Dairy is the worst offender for my joints, so absolutely forbidden in my case. This diet is the only way to completely abolish symptoms of my rheumatoid arthritis. I am doing great. Never felt better. However, I am a tiny woman, so for me 2200-2300 kcal a day is just enough. I do not go hungry. I eat till I am satisfied. I mix proteins with fruits and a little fat. I could not imagine my life without starch, but here I am, and I like it.

 

[Lizb]

I have been on fruit + meat, fish, seafood and eggs diet for almost 3 years now. For fat I use beef tallow and cocoa butter, but not a lot. Dairy is the worst offender for my joints, so absolutely forbidden in my case. This diet is the only way to completely abolish symptoms of my rheumatoid arthritis. I am doing great. Never felt better. However, I am a tiny woman, so for me 2200-2300 kcal a day is just enough. I do not go hungry. I eat till I am satisfied. I mix proteins with fruits and a little fat. I could not imagine my life without starch, but here I am, and I like it.

Thank you for the comment. Well done. It works - great news.