How Do I Convert Someone From Eating PUFA's?

[LucH]

What is an effective way to convince someone to stop eating PUFA.

=> You can’t convince someone if you haven’t got all his attention. So, don’t be too long and give him something to think later about …
You can’t change someone who doesn’t want to.
Try with an experiment: Do you know why canola oil or sunflower oil must be kept in the fridge and why butter or coco oil is solid at temperature room (20 ° C or 70° F)?
=> They are 50 % SFA in butter, 90 % in coco oil. In coco oil there are 66 % MCT.
Try to catch her attention: Have you already heard of “Diabetics type III”? This is when the brain can no longer function with glucose, like in Alzheimer’s disease. If you want more details go on internet and search for Dr. Newport’s video …
Video link Dr. Newport coconut oil
http://www.coconutresearchcenter.com/hwnl_5-4.htm

If the person don’t pay much attention, let fall. It’s not the good time.
If the person wants more information: Give him / her a book to read: “How to heal your metabolism”, Kate DEERING.
Let him / her find the solution: You know pigs were given raw potatoes and soybean meal (rich in PUFA) for fattening. But not enough with the rest of sugarcane and beetroot.
Animals fed “essential” fatty acid sufficient diets gain more weight than deficient animals (Rafael et al. 1988).
PUFA inhibit thyroid hormone activity (Clarke and Hembree 1990).
PUFA promote liver cirrhosis, saturated fats and cholesterol are protective against liver cirrhosis (Nanji and French 1986).

Put the question: Why? PUFA’s slow metabolism. Omega-3 are useful but we only need 0.5 gram EPA / DHA. 1.5 ALA. And yet, these fatty acids are not essential, except in pregnant women. The body can work with omega-9 instead (MEAD acids). Fats from whole foods, obviously. Duck or lean fish from time to time, e.g.

We work better with SFA (butter, free range eggs, coconut) and MUFA (olive or macadamia nuts) and don’t store these fatty acids (triglycerides). Of course, not too much fat! How much? It’s up to you. 10 – 20 % calories is fine.
Otherwise the arteries will be clogged (...). The two main causes of artery degeneration are trans fats and oxidation. PUFA’s are really very fragile.

By the way, you are not going to accuse the firefighters of being responsible for a fire on the pretext that they are present whenever there is a disaster. It's the same with LDL cholesterol. LDL cholesterol is the witness of a problem. This is not the problem! If there is too much cholesterol present in the arteries, it is because the arteries are oxidized, badly protected. Lack of fruits and vegetables (antioxidants). Polyunsaturated fatty acids are very fragile and oxidize rapidly if you do not protect your arteries (vitamin E + beta-carotene from whole food). The arteries become fragile and a fibrinogen is formed (made of cholesterol, calcium and fibrin) to form a bandage and to consolidate the arteries. (...)

 

[mujuro]

Tell them to smell fish oil that's gone bad. Then tell them that a similar reaction happens when it's heated or in the body. It's quite easy to explain why the double bonds on an unsaturated fatty acid chain make it more vulnerable to heat, light and oxygen than a saturated one. Furthermore, multiple (poly) double bonds (unsaturated) are even more liable to form aldehydes and ketones.

My wife hates the taste of coconut oil so I just use the non-cold-pressed stuff. So that's another option.

 

[lollipop]

=> You can’t convince someone if you haven’t got all his attention. So, don’t be too long and give him something to think later about …
You can’t change someone who doesn’t want to.
Try with an experiment: Do you know why canola oil or sunflower oil must be kept in the fridge and why butter or coco oil is solid at temperature room (20 ° C or 70° F)?
=> They are 50 % SFA in butter, 90 % in coco oil. In coco oil there are 66 % MCT.
Try to catch her attention: Have you already heard of “Diabetics type III”? This is when the brain can no longer function with glucose, like in Alzheimer’s disease. If you want more details go on internet and search for Dr. Newport’s video …
Video link Dr. Newport coconut oil
http://www.coconutresearchcenter.com/hwnl_5-4.htm

If the person don’t pay much attention, let fall. It’s not the good time.
If the person wants more information: Give him / her a book to read: “How to heal your metabolism”, Kate DEERING.
Let him / her find the solution: You know pigs were given raw potatoes and soybean meal (rich in PUFA) for fattening. But not enough with the rest of sugarcane and beetroot.
Animals fed “essential” fatty acid sufficient diets gain more weight than deficient animals (Rafael et al. 1988).
PUFA inhibit thyroid hormone activity (Clarke and Hembree 1990).
PUFA promote liver cirrhosis, saturated fats and cholesterol are protective against liver cirrhosis (Nanji and French 1986).

Put the question: Why? PUFA’s slow metabolism. Omega-3 are useful but we only need 0.5 gram EPA / DHA. 1.5 ALA. And yet, these fatty acids are not essential, except in pregnant women. The body can work with omega-9 instead (MEAD acids). Fats from whole foods, obviously. Duck or lean fish from time to time, e.g.

We work better with SFA (butter, free range eggs, coconut) and MUFA (olive or macadamia nuts) and don’t store these fatty acids (triglycerides). Of course, not too much fat! How much? It’s up to you. 10 – 20 % calories is fine.
Otherwise the arteries will be clogged (...). The two main causes of artery degeneration are trans fats and oxidation. PUFA’s are really very fragile.

By the way, you are not going to accuse the firefighters of being responsible for a fire on the pretext that they are present whenever there is a disaster. It's the same with LDL cholesterol. LDL cholesterol is the witness of a problem. This is not the problem! If there is too much cholesterol present in the arteries, it is because the arteries are oxidized, badly protected. Lack of fruits and vegetables (antioxidants). Polyunsaturated fatty acids are very fragile and oxidize rapidly if you do not protect your arteries (vitamin E + beta-carotene from whole food). The arteries become fragile and a fibrinogen is formed (made of cholesterol, calcium and fibrin) to form a bandage and to consolidate the arteries. (...)

Nice response @LucH

 

[johnwester130]

It's impossible

It took me one year to understand Ray Peat's work

Sadly the average person may not even understand it

 

[Constatine]

Don't you just love this forum? It's the only one I know that agrees on PUFAs. I'm not only on another planet, but is this heaven or what?

Its heaven :)

It's impossible

It took me one year to understand Ray Peat's work

Sadly the average person may not even understand it

Yeah its very difficult to communicate the idea to the masses. The key is to avoid all the complex and controversial details until they are drawn in. Say that the idea is to promote your metabolism and youth hormones to a state like when you were a kid and could eat anything, not get fat, and had a lot of energy. Then once they get interested you need to break their trust in mainstream diets like paleo by telling them that all these diets are making people more hypothyroid and destroying the metabolism. Then go into all the sugar, pufa, sunlight, etc.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

@Westside PUFAs

"Don't waste your time. People don't care. I wish I could take back all of the time and energy I've wasted over the last decade trying to convince people about food/nutrition stuff."

Yep I agree 100%

 

[Xisca]

My wife hates the taste of coconut oil so I just use the non-cold-pressed stuff. So that's another option.

Mine is cold pressed AND desodorised.

I have found different strategies to explain to people but there is no other way of starting than KNOWING WHAT THEY KNOW. So 1st start to speak about food and ASK for information.
Room mate? -> Shared food?
Well, say that you can share food only if cooked with your coconut oil.... And that she can use it. And that YOU cannot eat vegetable oil. Say that YOU have a problem with YOUR metabolism, and that YOU have a strategy to modify it!
For me it is easy to explain, as I have pains and aches from anaerobic use of glucose.

I have often talked about those new oils being used only since they were removed from the paint and varnish industry...

I also talk about the traditional wok that helps to sanitize food, and that women use this oil for skin because it removes fungi. I also say that they tried to give coconut to pigs but that they could not get fat, so they used corn and soya and it worked!

= I speak about me, and I tell stories.

 

[sladerunner69]

I wish there was a way. I really do. My poor mother I am so worried for her.

 

[pisser]

why do you care about what someone else puts into their body?

if someone isnt asking for advice/help dont give it.

this.

 

[Lilac]

A good argument is that people didn't eat seed oils before the 20th century. Some modern inventions are good, but laboratory "foods," pesticides, CAFO meat, and unripe fruit are all a step back. Look around. People are fatter and unhealthier than ever before. What changed and when? The food supply for one--big time in the 80s.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

A bunch of worthless rational argument here. You want to convince her, find out how she determines what she believes in and then feed whatever you want her to believe to her using that strategy.

 

[raypeatclips]

You guys are talking about suggesting scientific ways to convince people of these things, in my experience this will never work, unless the person is already very interested in diet/nutrition/health or you have some kind of qualification like PhD. As someone else said, if they aren't asking for advice, they won't be interested in what you have to say.

One way that is more likely to work, is to get really fit. Men, get very muscular and fit. Women get stereotypically "woman fit." Get bodies that people aspire to have. This way people will ask you, "what do you eat? What do you do?" And you could tell them anything and some of them will try it.

 

[boris]

@Westside PUFAs

"Don't waste your time. People don't care. I wish I could take back all of the time and energy I've wasted over the last decade trying to convince people about food/nutrition stuff."

Yep I agree 100%

I think like that from time to time, but then I think about the analogy in nature. If we were a tribe living in the jungle and you see someone of your tribe eating toxic plants, you would want to warn them about it, right?

I know seeing people use seed oils and keeping my mouth shut stresses me out. But then again anything nutrition creates a heated argument pretty quickly which is stressful too. Just sending Peats articles wasn't a successful method for me. Most people don't bother to read them, let alone try to understand them. At the moment I don't say anything for the most part, just "I can't eat that stuff".

Recently I saw a can of baby formula containing sunflower oil on the kitchen counter of a friend. This will be a difficult one. Just saying "that stuff is bad" won't have much effect since wikipedia says it's healthy and essential.

Do we have more threads where people share success stories of informing people about Peats ideas?

 

[yerrag]

I just think that just as actions speak louder than words, our own health speaks more than our unsolicited prescriptions to people. That sounds oxymoronic, I'd admit, as most, if not all of us, are here because we have some issues with our health. Many here would also agree with my thinking that the person blessed with a lifetime of excellent health would be the least knowledgeable about improving other people' s health. Just as a person who's born rich wouldn't know anything about making money.

I admire and look up to a Horatio Alger, someone who's a self made person, who rose up from rags to riches. When he talks about how to become successful, his advice is valued. Similarly, a person who's overcome poor health and has become an epitome of health - with great vigor and energy radiating outwards, would be someone whom people would lend their ears to.

I've got extremely high blood pressure, and I would not hide these from people I talk to. People don't look at me and ask why I'm healthy despite my high blood pressure. People will just ignore whatever I advise them, no matter how cogent my argument is, because of my condition. People will not see in me a person who's learned a lot from being 'blessed' with the challenges of a condition that has given me an opportunity to become knowledgeable on health matters. For this reason, I know it's an uphill climb for me getting people to take my advice seriously.

But that's how people perceive things mostly. That failed perception is what most people possess, and it's what makes them ordinary and very much subject to the vagaries of degeneration in their health. They double down on what's wrong and they get worse off. Told to reverse course, they will dig in with all they've got. There won't be any thank you'd from them. Instead, they will scoff at you. They won't open their hearts and minds to even consider the possibility that they've been wrong. They're invested too much in the idea that the system they believe in can't be working against them by design. It's simply inconceivable to them that they're being duped. A lot of ego and pride is involved.

But they light up when a cancer survivor talks to them. They'll be more open when a gold medal-studded Olympic athlete talks to them about how he overcame a sickly childhood.

Your credibility is very much dependent on such dynamics. It's not what you know and how much sense you have, it's the aura of health you emanate that matters to them.

Sad to say, but people who are spokespersons for health have to undergo cosmetic operations secretively as they know how gullible people are to false appearances.

 

[methylenewhite]

As MK Ultra suggests you have to give at least 150 mcg of Hoffman's child to someone and use brainwashing techniques.

 

[opethfeldt]

Good luck convincing high serotonin ridgid people to adopt a mindset that goes against the mainstream. Until (unless) "peating" goes mainstream, there's going to be many people who simply dismiss it as rubbish.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

I think like that from time to time, but then I think about the analogy in nature. If we were a tribe living in the jungle and you see someone of your tribe eating toxic plants, you would want to warn them about it, right?

I know seeing people use seed oils and keeping my mouth shut stresses me out. But then again anything nutrition creates a heated argument pretty quickly which is stressful too. Just sending Peats articles wasn't a successful method for me. Most people don't bother to read them, let alone try to understand them. At the moment I don't say anything for the most part, just "I can't eat that stuff".

Recently I saw a can of baby formula containing sunflower oil on the kitchen counter of a friend. This will be a difficult one. Just saying "that stuff is bad" won't have much effect since wikipedia says it's healthy and essential.

Do we have more threads where people share success stories of informing people about Peats ideas?

I've just learned to shut up. People don't want to hear that ***t.

I mean, I was never that much of a PUFA or food Nazi. It was typically suggestions, or just bringing the topic up as something to talk about. But I quickly learned that people don't want to hear that ***t.

That still doesn't stop people from bringing up "their" ideas on health, typically regurgitations of government or industry propaganda from the 60s-90s.

Still, there's no point in arguing or discussing this stuff with normies. The only people I talk about this stuff IRL with are intelligent people (mostly family). And only when they bring it up as something to discuss, or are asking me a question about their diet.

I only ever bring it up myself when talking about politics with a select few. It's not usually about the food itself but about how big business has altered and controls everything, including food and nutrition theories, and has lied to the masses about it.

The difference between seeing a Tribe member eating a poisonous plant vs eatintg PUFA is huge. Because regardless of what the Tribe member argue back at you with, once they eat it they will get smacked in the face with the undeniable force we call Truth. The fact the plant is poisonous will be undeniable and clear as day after the toxin enters their bloodstream.

Bur if someone's eating no fat other than soy oil or whatever else and you mention the health risks, they can disagree with you all they want and experience very little short term problems. The worst they'll get is stomach cramps or something from gluten, and that's not even most people. With oil, any problems will not be acute, it'll be long term. They may have tons of health problems but cutting out PUFA for a day will make no difference, because it requires weeks of abstinence.

And the worst part is, when they're old and sick and covered in liver spots, suffering from the dietary choices you warned about, they won't make the connection, and if you try to make the connection for them you'll 1) fail to convince them, 2) come across as a ****. If they're morbidly obese at 50, again they won't make the connection. There's no "undeniable force of reality" that will convince them you were right all along, no slap in the face like an overdose of a plant toxin. They'll instead just blame it on genetics or aging. Or, because most people eat a mixed diet, they'll blame it on all the "heart clogging saturated fats" they ate. Because even if they eat "healthy", they'll still be eating some small amount of saturated fats. And they'll just blame any problems on those.

There is no real concrete way of proving you're right if they won't read the studies themselves. Besides the studies (which won't convince 99% of people), the ONLY way of convincing others is to lead by example. This means being healthy yourself. This includes stuff like losing weight, being athletic, having nice hair or skin. Not necessarily real health but actual results that people associated with health. If you manage to lose a bunch of weight/gain muscle, suddenly you have tons of credibility. It's an undeniable truth, and people will suddenly listen to you.

The anxiety you feel is pointless and unhealthy and is a character flaw. Completely and utterly let it go, and stop arguing with people. Easier said than done, but possible. The only time I think it's appropriate to feel anxious about others dietary habits is when it's your children's. That's completely justified and it should be set right if it's wrong. But don't be a control freak and deny them basic and delicious childhood foods, don't alienate them from friends with a weird diet, don't do what hardcore vegans do and give them deficiencys from extremely poor nutrition. This is a RP forum though and following that should be a great diet for children.

I have actually been asked for my opinion on nutrition by a friend who was going to have a child. Gave a long discussion to the friend and expecting mother and they seem to have followed most of it. The baby is doing great. I don't remember giving him advice about the child before I was asked. I only stated my opinion of his case after being asked to.

Best wishes.

 

[ExCarniv]

The only way that people will hear you is, applying your ideas to yourself and become healthier and leaner, then people will ask what you did to be were you are.

I converted my father to a low pufa/gluten diet,he lost 15lbs already and feel overall better.

 

[_lppaiva]

What is an effective way to convince someone to stop eating PUFA.

There is a roommate who cooks but I worry she uses cooking oil.

I don't want to nag them to research Ray Peat but I want them to stop eating PUFA.

Ah, the million dollar question.

I'd say the best way is with results, but often the things that bother us don't seem like that much to someone else. You might notice improvements in small things that for you are important, but might seem "overreaction" to someone else. If you have some major transformation, like eating a lot while loosing weight or stuff, then that will easily grab their attention, but it's not always the case.

What I try to do is to mostly give facts WHEN confronted, and not try to push my views.

since unless you have a lot of knowledge like haidut or some other members, I find I can't sustain a extended discussion (like being confronted on why environment matters more than genetics). But whenever my mom or uncle will ask me why of a specific point (why I supplement this, or why I don't eat that), I find that explaining it clearly will slowly convince them. After two months I finally convinced my mom to start using butter, so there's still a long way to go.

Also, you can't convince everyone mate. People will only change when they want to. Planting the seed might help long term though.

 

[_lppaiva]

Steal her vegetable oil, dump the contents, and fill the bottle with olive oil or MCT oil. Repeat as necessary.

I am laughing at this for the past five minutes