How Do I Choose What Milk To Buy?

[PeatInspired]

I've been buying whole milk (because my hubby has ADD and heard that something in lower fat milk aggravates ADD). But I've read on the forums that people are drinking a wide variety of milks.

What kind of milk does Ray Peat recommend?
I know Ray Peat eats ice cream and butter... so I feel like fat isn't really a concern. So I assumed Whole Milk was his first choice. Is there anything wrong with whole milk?

Confused.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Many people confuse Peat with Weston Price type stuff like "whole milk and chicken stock."

Peat quotes:

"I’ve mentioned at times I’ve averaged over the years probably a gallon of milk a day but that’s always been 1% milk because even at 2 quarts of milk, a person doesn’t want to have whole milk at 3 or 4% fat."

Josh Rubin then says: "What’s interesting is when you say those things, I don’t think you realize the repercussions. You have all these people walking around trying to drink gallons of milk but they’re drinking whole milk and their like “Why am I gaining so much weight…(Peat and Josh laughing)

listen here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7204&p=89863#p89863

"For people who aren't very active, low fat milk and cheese are better, because the extra fat calories aren't needed."

"The fats in meat and cheese can be minimized by choosing low fat types, and skimmed or 1% milk can be used."

"but the first thing should be to make sure her calcium to phosphorus ratio is good, by having two quarts of low fat milk per day, or the equivalent in low fat cheese, with no grains, legumes, nuts, or muscle meats, and with some well cooked greens regularly."

"For people who don't do hard physical labor, low-fat milk is appropriate."

“I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories.”

 

[PeatInspired]

Peat quotes:

“I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories.”

Ok thanks! So what's the deal with ice cream and butter? Are they to be avoided or only used in certain combinations of food?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Eat as much ice cream and butter as you want. It's up to you. There is no rX. I personally don't eat it because it gives me blood sugar problems and it deposits on my fat stores right away. Peat knows how much of it to eat to keep himself from getting a tummy. But do as you wish.

 

[PeatInspired]

Peat knows how much of it to eat to keep himself from getting a tummy. But do as you wish.

So it's a moderation thing? I thought Peat said butter is kinda essential in large doses (I.e. on potatoes)

 

[Westside PUFAs]

His view is the only safe starches are potatoes and white rice if well cooked and consumed with butter or coconut oil. It's moderation in the sense that you can see he thinks to much dairy fat can be fattening from the above quotes so you just have to gauge yourself. Your own view on what amount of body fat you want to have to be happy is up to you. In that above quote on milk with Josh Rubin, right before that sentence Peat says "if you're gaining inches instead of muscle," (meaning inches on your waist as in your belly is getting bigger), "then you're probably eating too much fat and overall calories." And he then goes on to say the "I've mentioned at times quote." So in that context he's not talking about pufa fat, he's talking about dairy fat. So "large doses" of butter as you say, can put you over the limit.

 

[lindsay]

Everyone is different, and so I think it's best to find what works for you. I actually gave up milk and opted for cream. I don't drink a ton of it, just in my coffee. And I eat a decent amount of high fat cheese. I tried low fat - it didn't work for me. It might in the future, but it really depends on where you are starting from. If you do not have a lot of extra weight and you don't consume a lot of PUFA (and, I think this is highly sex dependent - females are different from males and no one is the same), then you might be able to get away with more fat. If you have more fat storage and have consumed lots of PUFA's in the past, going low fat might be a better option. Everyone's stress levels are different and your history will have a lot of weight on what you should do. Liver function is also a huge part of this.

That being said, a lot of really nutritious foods contain fat and eliminating them means you will get weird additives in the foods - like low fat dairy and cheese. I prefer something around 60 - 70 grams, but maybe that will change in the future. There is not blanket option - everyone is different and needs to find what works for them. If I could eat low fat high starch and sugar and make it work, I would. But so far, it hasn't worked for me - I feel unsatisfied, because I do not tolerate starch. But it does for some and that is worth noting. So experimentation is key. And really, if you want an RP true protocol, it would probably be more like, "Avoid PUFA". I think we can all agree on that.

 

[Peater Piper]

Drink Your Milk: The Many Benefits of Dairy.

"According to U.S. law, reduced fat milk must have vitamin D and vitamin A added to it. Many of the contaminants in the vitamins themselves are possible sources of allergies to commercial milk, not the milk itself. Whole milk, which many people choose to avoid, is actually the most likely to be allergen free! Carrageenan is also commonly used in milk products as a thickening agent. But carrageenan is a powerful allergen that can cause a reaction similar to latex allergy."

So I think Ray prefers lower fat content, but that there's greater risk of gut irritation with reduced fat milk due to the additives.

 

[PeatInspired]

So I think Ray prefers lower fat content, but that there's greater risk of gut irritation with reduced fat milk due to the additives.

Interesting thanks! I'm having trouble with acid reflux at the moment... Might the additives aggravate that? Or would high fat be more likely to aggravate it?

Also- does low fatt raw milk have the additives as well?

 

[PeatInspired]

Everyone is different, and so I think it's best to find what works for you. I actually gave up milk and opted for cream. I don't drink a ton of it, just in my coffee. And I eat a decent amount of high fat cheese. I tried low fat - it didn't work for me. It might in the future, but it really depends on where you are starting from. If you do not have a lot of extra weight and you don't consume a lot of PUFA (and, I think this is highly sex dependent - females are different from males and no one is the same), then you might be able to get away with more fat. If you have more fat storage and have consumed lots of PUFA's in the past, going low fat might be a better option. Everyone's stress levels are different and your history will have a lot of weight on what you should do. Liver function is also a huge part of this.

That being said, a lot of really nutritious foods contain fat and eliminating them means you will get weird additives in the foods - like low fat dairy and cheese. I prefer something around 60 - 70 grams, but maybe that will change in the future. There is not blanket option - everyone is different and needs to find what works for them. If I could eat low fat high starch and sugar and make it work, I would. But so far, it hasn't worked for me - I feel unsatisfied, because I do not tolerate starch. But it does for some and that is worth noting. So experimentation is key. And really, if you want an RP true protocol, it would probably be more like, "Avoid PUFA". I think we can all agree on that.

Interesting. I'm a 28 year old woman, I am not terribly over weight but I can tell I am not loosing my extra weight as easily as I used to, I might try reducing it a bit. I am coming from a low carb/high fat past.

 

[lindsay]

Also- does low fatt raw milk have the additives as well?

I used to buy whole raw milk and let the cream float to the top, then skim it off as best as possible - no additives :) It may also be important to try different kinds of milk - like goats' milk versus cows' milk, etc.

 

[PeatInspired]

I used to buy whole raw milk and let the cream float to the top, then skim it off as best as possible - no additives :) It may also be important to try different kinds of milk - like goats' milk versus cows' milk, etc.

Great idea, about the raw milk. And I do like goats milk. I assume it has no additives typically?

 

[Peater Piper]

All you people that can legally buy raw milk make me sick! :p Goat milk is great, not much B12, but loaded with Taurine, and the A2 casein is supposedly much less likely to cause problems compared to the A1 in most U.S. dairy cows. If you're buying it off the shelves then the reduced fat varieties still have Vitamins A and D added by law, as far as I'm aware. Even the full fat kinds I can find in stores here in Maryland have D added. I'm guessing you can bypass that if you can source it straight from a farm. How were you purchasing your raw milk, Lindsay?

 

[PeatInspired]

All you people that can legally buy raw milk make me sick! :p

Come to California! :)

 

[tara]

I know Ray Peat eats ice cream and butter... so I feel like fat isn't really a concern. So I assumed Whole Milk was his first choice. Is there anything wrong with whole milk?

I think he has cream in his coffee cos it tastes good, and includes it in his fat budget, which he tries not to get too high with, so that's an additional reason for drinking 1% rather than whole milk. If you need the calories from whole milk there's that. Otherwise probably not needed.

Some saturated fat can help protect against some of the downsides of starches, and probably to aid digestion, but I don't think it has to be large amounts to make a difference.

Peat has suggested finding milk that you tolerate and drinking that. Sometimes even the farm it comes from can make a difference because the herds have different somewhat different conditions. Some people do fine with some kinds and not others - e.g. raw/pasturised/UHT. If it tastes good and doesn't

 

[lindsay]

All you people that can legally buy raw milk make me sick! :p Goat milk is great, not much B12, but loaded with Taurine, and the A2 casein is supposedly much less likely to cause problems compared to the A1 in most U.S. dairy cows. If you're buying it off the shelves then the reduced fat varieties still have Vitamins A and D added by law, as far as I'm aware. Even the full fat kinds I can find in stores here in Maryland have D added. I'm guessing you can bypass that if you can source it straight from a farm. How were you purchasing your raw milk, Lindsay?

Yes - in CT, we can buy raw milk from a few select farms (we have to purchase at the farm, not in store). I used to go get raw milk regularly, but then we moved and now it is a huge hike and I decided I just prefer cream :) But I really should go and buy the raw milk and just use that cream - I am stupid for not doing so occasionally - it's only a 30 minute drive. But I've opted for cheese over milk. And yes - Low fat goats' milk has added vitamins and very little calcium..... better off with the full fat stuff, which is way more tastier anyhow :)

 

[Gray Ling]

Goat's milk is the best.

 

[milk_lover]

High fat milk and too much fat in general could make people not metabolize sugar properly. You could say temporary "insulin resistance". Semi-skimmed or low fat organic milk that is not long lived without any added vitamins is my personal preferred option. It might be expensive but surely it's cheaper than buying your own cow or getting raw milk.

 

[Gametime]

I'm pretty skinny and could do with the extra calories, I've been drinking an excellent whole organic unhomogensised milk that is great! I've been thinking of stwitching over to Semi Skimmed because of apparently all the unwanted hormones are in the fat portion of the whole milk, i saw a study somewhere where men who drunk whole milk had reduced sperm quality and people who drunk Skimmed or Semi Skimmed milk had increased sperm volume etc.. should I worry about this or is whole milk not a problem etc??

 

[Crazycoco]

I prefer personnaly, organic whole milk from grassfed cows.

Be careful with the calories argument. Sure low fat dairy have less calories. They are less satiating and more processed too. That's why high fat dairy is associated with lower body weight

The relationship between high-fat dairy consumption and obesity, cardiovascular, and metabolic disease. - PubMed - NCBI

Whole Health Source: New Review Paper by Yours Truly: High-Fat Dairy, Obesity, Metabolic Health and Cardiovascular Disease