How did you manage to lower RT3? - My lab results

FitnessMike

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Seems that i found the reason why i do not tolerate thyroid meds.
 

Jessie

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Apparently getting a better T4 to T3 ratio will stop this, or just taking T3 standalone.

I'm like you, I don't tolerate thyroid well at all. It gives me bad insomnia. Insomnia that lasts for days even after I stop it.

I just try to eat a good diet, keep my gut disinfected, and watch my serotonin and lactate levels. Basically try to mitigate the most detrimental problems of being hypo. It works well, probably would work even better if I had the luck of living in higher elevation, which I do not.
 
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FitnessMike

FitnessMike

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Apparently getting a better T4 to T3 ratio will stop this, or just taking T3 standalone.

I'm like you, I don't tolerate thyroid well at all. It gives me bad insomnia. Insomnia that lasts for days even after I stop it.

I just try to eat a good diet, keep my gut disinfected, and watch my serotonin and lactate levels. Basically try to mitigate the most detrimental problems of being hypo. It works well, probably would work even better if I had the luck of living in higher elevation, which I do not.
but did you essentially managed to lower it to the point where you alleviate most of the hypo symptoms?

I understand I need to lower stress as much as i can, but supplementing t3 only causing raise in both t3 and t4 and eventually overload and super high adrenaline.
 

Ingenol

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What are your free T4, free T3 and TSH? Usual culprits for high rT3 are liver, chronic dieting/undereating, and stress. How does your cortisol look?
 
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FitnessMike

FitnessMike

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What are your free T4, free T3 and TSH? Usual culprits for high rT3 are liver, chronic dieting/undereating, and stress. How does your cortisol look?
This is my recent blood cortisol profile results:
1621606935220.png


this is my recent saliva cortisol results, few months ago looked better but still suboptimal from afternoon, i suspect this one might be worse because i used adrenal cortex/liquorice to support stress response and the day i did test i didint take anything, not sure.

1621607119409.png


This is my recent thyroid profile, i struggled for few weeks to drop my accumulated hormones from previous supplementation, also i dropped recently my cortisol support as i suspect it was further increase rt3 and hormones even grew since previous test 2 weeks ago.

1621607479394.png
 

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FitnessMike

FitnessMike

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What are your free T4, free T3 and TSH? Usual culprits for high rT3 are liver, chronic dieting/undereating, and stress. How does your cortisol look?
Stress is probably the culprit, my insomnia is slightly better now with aspirin, definitely not undereating :)

Could elevated liver enzymes cause rt3 to increase?
 
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Jessie

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but did you essentially managed to lower it to the point where you alleviate most of the hypo symptoms?

I understand I need to lower stress as much as i can, but supplementing t3 only causing raise in both t3 and t4 and eventually overload and super high adrenaline.
Yes. If you can keep the intestine clean and keep FAO to a minimum, you can negate most of these downstream consequences of low thyroid.

Judging by your lab report it looks like your issue is perhaps hyper, not hypo. Your TSH is only .005mIU, and your antibodies are elevated. I would just stop taking the thyroid until this straightens out. The high iron could be causing complications as well.
 
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FitnessMike

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Yes. If you can keep the intestine clean and keep FAO to a minimum, you can negate most of these downstream consequences of low thyroid.

Judging by your lab report it looks like your issue is perhaps hyper, not hypo. Your TSH is only .005mIU, and your antibodies are elevated. I would just stop taking the thyroid until this straightens out. The high iron could be causing complications as well.
I'm definitely hypo not hyper, i stopped supplementing any thyroid around 2 months ago, i think by using all this cortisol support I elevated RT3 even higher and i never managed to lower thyroid hormones, antibodies got elevated ever since i started supplementing thyroid, hope they will drop when my thyroid hormones come back to where it suppose to be without supplementation.
 
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FitnessMike

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I just try to eat a good diet, keep my gut disinfected, and watch my serotonin and lactate levels. Basically try to mitigate the most detrimental problems of being hypo. It works well,
can you share steps that you take to achieve that?
 

Jessie

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can you share steps that you take to achieve that?
Trial and error mostly.

On the nutritional front, the main struggle is finding foods that will be digested and tolerated well. Juice, coffee, milk, eggs, cheese, meat/gelatin, masa, and sugar is my central hub. When I start gravitating too far from this nucleus bad stuff (gas, indigestion, etc.) starts happening. I also think finding some sort of insoluble fiber is important to control bacteria proliferation. Everyone knows Ray's recommendations. I grew tired of the carrot salad, now I'm using mushrooms. Wheat Bran is another good source.

Other things not diet related

I've noticed red light,at leas for me, is simply NOT an acceptable replacement for sunlight. Maybe i could serve as a temporary stop gap when there's a solid week of overcast or something, but sunlight is far far far far superior. Not just for the vitamin D, but sunlight exposure will powerfully stimulate dopamine and lower prolactin. Sunlight is responsible for the creation and secretion of certain intestinal specific peptides which suppress bacteria. So getting lots of sun would be another simple recommendation.

Supplements can wreck your digestive system, and I'm really against this idea of "stacks" where people take 8 to 10 things on a daily basis. No telling what pollutants they're ingesting. I recommend Throne D3 (or comparable replacement) 10-20 drops applied topically to leg or torso daily. I think most people would also benefit from daily magnesium. Mag bicarbonate would be the best absorbed and easiest on intestine, around 500-1000mgs daily. The only other "supplement" I'd recommend would be using CO2 therapy whenever needed. Most common way is bag breathing. I prefer inhaling baking soda form diffuser. But it's probably good to utilize both, considering one raises the PH and the other lowers it.

Drugs may also be useful tools when utilized correctly. It's hard for me to recommend anything though considering everyone is case specific. Aspirin and tetracycline would probably be the best for broad application. I've also used famotidine, cyproheptadine, lidocaine/novocaine, lapodin, naltrexone, pyrucet, and insoine with great results.

Most hormones have given me bad reactions. The worst has been thyroid, which makes everything go out of whack for long periods. Pregnenolone gives positive results for 1 or 2 days, then gives me insomnia. Adding DHEA to the pregnenolone doesn't help, same results. The one exception thus far has been androsterone, which made me warm and relaxed. But I quit taking it out of fear it would drain my upstream hormones. I haven't tried progesterone.
 

Jessie

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I should also add, even though it's not peaty, I've had good results reducing endotoxin via fasting. But I think this should be a last ditch effort.
 

Birdie

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I've found that some types of thyroid don't work. When I started using it in the 90s, Armour worked really well for me, but the company was sold a few times and the formula changed. For a while WP Thyroid worked, but they changed the formula and it stopped working. In the past years, I've taken Ray's advice to use Cynoplus and Cynomel.

Whenever my rT3 gets too high, I emphasize T3 and lower my T4. So, I emphasize Cynomel (T3) and reduce my Cynoplus (T3/T4). I do some other things too, but don't remember at the moment. I think raising the T3 and lowering T4 seems to work for most people. Some people use T3 only until the rT3 tests better.
 
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FitnessMike

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I should also add, even though it's not peaty, I've had good results reducing endotoxin via fasting. But I think this should be a last ditch effort.
i got myself into hypo partly because of fasting
 

Jessie

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i got myself into hypo partly because of fasting
That is not a uncommon feature of fasting, you're basically pushing the "gas pedal" on fatty acid oxidation. I think it's a benefit/risk analysis that every individual needs to address.

A couple days of controlled hypo from food avoidance is probably much better than being stuck in hypo for the rest for your life due to bacterial endotoxin. Endotoxin is the central driver of hepatic dysfunction, which keeps you stuck in a state of excess lipolysis and lower T3.
 
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FitnessMike

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That is not a uncommon feature of fasting, you're basically pushing the "gas pedal" on fatty acid oxidation. I think it's a benefit/risk analysis that every individual needs to address.

A couple days of controlled hypo from food avoidance is probably much better than being stuck in hypo for the rest for your life due to bacterial endotoxin. Endotoxin is the central driver of hepatic dysfunction, which keeps you stuck in a state of excess lipolysis and lower T3.

so you're saying that some becoming hypo because of endotoxin, and it's way more severe than hypo induced from fasting?
 

Jessie

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so you're saying that some becoming hypo because of endotoxin, and it's way more severe than hypo induced from fasting?
Of course, one is a controlled environment, it lasts for 3-5 days and can be stopped at any point just by ingesting some sugar. The other can last for your entire life if you don't correct the issue.

FWIW, I did state in my original comment you should probably explore other options for treating LPS first, like charcoal, mushrooms, carrots, antibiotics, etc. But if none of that works, fasting will starve the bacteria and have powerful effects.

Even Ray has stated the reduction in endotoxin from fasting is beneficial.
 
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FitnessMike

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I've found that some types of thyroid don't work. When I started using it in the 90s, Armour worked really well for me, but the company was sold a few times and the formula changed. For a while WP Thyroid worked, but they changed the formula and it stopped working. In the past years, I've taken Ray's advice to use Cynoplus and Cynomel.

Whenever my rT3 gets too high, I emphasize T3 and lower my T4. So, I emphasize Cynomel (T3) and reduce my Cynoplus (T3/T4). I do some other things too, but don't remember at the moment. I think raising the T3 and lowering T4 seems to work for most people. Some people use T3 only until the rT3 tests better.
Hi, do you remember what sort of ratio of t4:t3 worked to drop rt3?
 

Birdie

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Hi, do you remember what sort of ratio of t4:t3 worked to drop rt3?
No, sorry, but we do reduce the T3/T4 form of thyroid we take, and then use bits of T3 (Cynomel) during the day. We use about 1 to 1 1/2 Cynomel tabs a day until our next labs are done. We gage how we are doing during this time and reduce the Cynomel amount if it seems appropriate.

In the past, we'd gage progress by taking our temps, but now are move lax and go by feel. We've gone through the process about 3 times over the years... Now, we use the T3 bit during the day always. Still using T3/T4 in the am. I hope that will be enough to keep the RT3 under control.
 

Beastmode

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This is my recent blood cortisol profile results:
View attachment 23658

this is my recent saliva cortisol results, few months ago looked better but still suboptimal from afternoon, i suspect this one might be worse because i used adrenal cortex/liquorice to support stress response and the day i did test i didint take anything, not sure.

View attachment 23659

This is my recent thyroid profile, i struggled for few weeks to drop my accumulated hormones from previous supplementation, also i dropped recently my cortisol support as i suspect it was further increase rt3 and hormones even grew since previous test 2 weeks ago.

View attachment 23661
Do you eat a lot of meat, oysters and/or "fortified" foods?

The saturation % is really high and can be a sign of significant stress.
 
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FitnessMike

FitnessMike

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Do you eat a lot of meat, oysters and/or "fortified" foods?

The saturation % is really high and can be a sign of significant stress.
no not really, its low now, coffee and milk reduce iron big time and its on lower-end now lol
 

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