How Could We Better Get The Word Out About PUFA?

[tankasnowgod]

Usain Bolt reveals he devoured 1,000 Chicken McNuggets during the 2008

Oh. So the question really was "Why was a well trained 22 year old with very low bodyfat and a favorable hormonal profile able to break records and remain in good shape while eating 880 grams of PUFA during that 10 day period? " Well, I'm gonna hazzard a guess and say........ it's because he was a well trained 22 year old with very low bodyfat and a favorable hormonal profile.

Even if 100% of those 880g of PUFA were stored as fat, that would be about 2 pounds of fat. I'm sure Bolt's weight could fluctuate up to 5 pounds or so in a day during that competitive period, maybe more. 2 pounds over a week wouldn't even be noticed.

 

[tankasnowgod]

One reason why is because Usain uses steroids. Nate Diaz: "Everyone's on steroids". Or search for: Devon Larratt about Steroids in Armwresling

Certainly a possibility, but regardless, it isn't fair to compare a lean 22 year old with people who are (on average) double that age, or more.

 

[Gone Peating]

More important than telling people to stop consuming PUFA is getting people to be more active and eat less calories. PUFA is burned preferentially for fuel. Meaning if not eating in a constant caloric surplus, no PUFA will accumulate. Look at the bigger picture, the issue is people are sedentary and over consume empty calories.

Before I get attacked, ask yourself this: why can usain bolt each hundreds of grams of PUFA from McDonald’s and break world records while being in tip top shape but memebers of this forum who pedantically track PUFA intake claim that they get fat as soon as PUFA intake increases from 2g to 4g per day? And before you answer generics, remember we are on the Ray Peat forum.

In a vacuum this advice works, but let's see how Usain Bolt looks in 20-30 years - I'll put money on him not looking so good. The vast majority of athletes age awfully and die relatively young.

I ate at a calorie deficit and all it did was make me feel awful.

 

[Gone Peating]

I don't think there is much point to what you are suggesting. I didn't exactly "stumble" upon Peat's work, I found it as I was researching health subjects I was interested in. I think that's how most people will do it. Unless you have a good grasp of mass communications, or a following in that regard, or are willing to learn more about mass communication and build a following, I don't think you will accomplish much.

Also, people don't get most of their exposure to high PUFA oils from buying the oils themselves. It's either from restaurants or processed foods. A better use of time would be to try and get those entities to avoid using high PUFA oils and return to things like tallow and coconut oil. Price and availability would be two major obstacles to overcome. Or campaign for an end to soy subsidies. All those would take a lot of work and effort, but so would the first option, if it were to be done effectively.

Good points, but just like we realized how harmful it was and made dietary decisions based on that realization so too will others - there is nothing special about us.

Just look at all the people who go all out paleo, or all out keto, or all out vegetarian - people are willing to go to extreme lengths to be in good health. The problem is that most advice that is available to them is awful.

 

[tara]

This guy's having a crack at it:
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Fat-Guide-David-Gillespie-ebook/dp/B07SPGTNGJ/

I believe PUFA is the primary cause of modern disease. But I don't know. And I won't proselytize about things that I don't know. I've been avoiding PUFA for years and I have no plan to stop. If its avoidance is health giving, then I will continue to become more energized and vibrant, and people will notice. They will ask if I have a secret. I will say, "no. I do try to avoid vegetable oil because I believe it's harmful, but who knows if that's actually true..."

I like this approach.

More important than telling people to stop consuming PUFA is getting people to be more active and eat less calories.

Not everyone would benefit from that. There are people who are undereating and overexercising, as well as the converse.
I like your approach.

This may not be a good analogy, but look at parrots, they eat tons of PUFA and live long lives. From what I read, the parrots have a high body temperature and burn up the PUFA before it can get stored in their body. Heck, my parrots eat all kinds of seeds and stuff we would not eat, they don't get fat, and they will probably outlive me, so there may be something to that.

Parrots might be better off not overloading on seeds too. I think they might get fed grains for convenience - but they might be much happier with more fruit, veges, meat etc.

 

[olive]

In a vacuum this advice works, but let's see how Usain Bolt looks in 20-30 years - I'll put money on him not looking so good. The vast majority of athletes age awfully and die relatively young.

I ate at a calorie deficit and all it did was make me feel awful.

Well now your moving the goal posts. Usain Bolt is 33 and in great health. You’ve got members on this very forum much younger who claim to feel intense malaise and grow large amounts of adipose tissue every time their PUFA intake exceeds 4grams. Explain to me the difference between Usain Bolts ability to be in great health despite copious consumption of PUFA and the members on this forum - many significantly younger - who are in a constant state of ill health. Try not to move the goal posts again.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Explain to me the difference between Usain Bolts ability to be in great health despite copious consumption of PUFA and the members on this forum - many significantly younger - who are in a constant state of ill health.

First, prove that Usain Bolt is in great health.

Second, post his food logs for the past 10 years that show his "copious" PUFA consumption.

Third, compare them to the Ray Peat Forum members under 33.

 

[boris]

PUFA inhibits protein digestion. No wonder he needs thousands of chicken nuggets to be satiated.

 

[Gone Peating]

Well now your moving the goal posts. Usain Bolt is 33 and in great health. You’ve got members on this very forum much younger who claim to feel intense malaise and grow large amounts of adipose tissue every time their PUFA intake exceeds 4grams. Explain to me the difference between Usain Bolts ability to be in great health despite copious consumption of PUFA and the members on this forum - many significantly younger - who are in a constant state of ill health. Try not to move the goal posts again.

That's a good point. Probably because he burns fuel like a mad man, but is that healthy long term? I don't really know, but looking at how most athletes age I would say not.

I also don't know if you can really consider him in great health if his resting heart rate is 30bpm. Just because he is lean and a freak athlete (which is 90% genetics) does not necessarily mean he is healthy at a cellular level

 

[ExCarniv]

I believe PUFA is the primary cause of modern disease

PUFA in form of seed oils aka fried foods, lack of sunlight and iron fortified foods, are the 3 pillars of modern diseases.

I'm my personal experience when I dropped PUFAs and iron fortification (bread, flour etc) and got enough sunlight all my health markers improved

 

[ExCarniv]

Second, post his food logs for the past 10 years that show his "copious" PUFA consumption.

Yep, I don't believe he eats nothing but chicken mcnuggets lol

Even if he ate that, the general advice for high level athletes is eat lots of carbs, enough protein, lowish fats (specially avoid fried foods) and no alcohol.

Messi on his early pro years was eating lots of fried foods and got constant injuries and even threw up in the middle of games ,till cleared the fried foods off his diet.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Yep, I don't believe he eats nothing but chicken mcnuggets lol

Even if he ate that, the general advice for high level athletes is eat lots of carbs, enough protein, lowish fats (specially avoid fried foods) and no alcohol.

Messi on his early pro years was eating lots of fried foods and got constant injuries and even threw up in the middle of games ,till cleared the fried foods off his diet.

So far, it seems the entire idea comes from his book where Bolt "estimates" he ate 1000 Chicken McNuggets during the 10 days he was in Beijing. A quote from the article posted earlier-

"he powered to three gold medals fuelled by Chicken McNuggets, a total he now estimates to have reached 1,000 during his 10 days in the Chinese capital.

The Jamaican revealed in his soon-to-be released autobiography, Faster than Lightning, his passion started with a box of 20, yes 20, of the golden chicken treats, but with his training going into overdrive, he soon needed far more, up to 100 a day, and even turned to an apple pie to take the edge off.

“At first I ate a box of 20 for lunch, then another for dinner,” he wrote. “The next day I had two boxes for breakfast, one for lunch and then another couple in the evening. I even grabbed some fries and an apple pie to go with it.”

Okay, so a 22 year old elite athlete ate like this during 10 of the biggest days of his life. Next question...... what oils were being used in McDonalds in China at that time? In the US and Canada, McDonalds had just declared that it was no longer using hydrogenated oils, which meant less of the beneficial saturated and trans fats for the American market, and far more PUFA. McDonald's Makes Fries Trans-Fat Free

But could tallow or palm oil, or some other fully hydrogenated oil have been used in China? Does China allow high PUFA oils to be served as food? I don't know the answer to that.

 

[pauljacob]

Since (according to Wikipedia) PUFA is sometimes classified in two groups:

short chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (SC-PUFA), with 16 or 18 carbon atoms
long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LC-PUFA) with more than 18 carbon atoms
Polyunsaturated fatty acid - Wikipedia

Wouldn't the short and the long affect body health differently? If they do, then maybe this community should make an effort to distinguish which is which, and why this is good and the other even better, or not so good.

I'm a total noob here, but I'm obsessed with zooming in on small details that may make a big difference.

 

[Gone Peating]

Since (according to Wikipedia) PUFA is sometimes classified in two groups:

short chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (SC-PUFA), with 16 or 18 carbon atoms
long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LC-PUFA) with more than 18 carbon atoms
Polyunsaturated fatty acid - Wikipedia

Wouldn't the short and the long affect body health differently? If they do, then maybe this community should make an effort to distinguish which is which, and why this is good and the other even better, or not so good.

I'm a total noob here, but I'm obsessed with zooming in on small details that may make a big difference.

I believe short chain are Omega-3s. Peat seems to think they are about as harmful as Omega-6, longer chain pufa

 

[tankasnowgod]

I believe short chain are Omega-3s. Peat seems to think they are about as harmful as Omega-6, longer chain pufa

The two Omega 3s most often touted (usually in fish oil), EPA and DHA are 20 and 22 carbon atoms, making both long chain. ALA is 18, which would apparently make it "short" by the definition you linked. But I don't know how good a definition that is, as MCTs, medium chain triglycerides, are between 6-12 carbons, which would make medium chains shorter than short chains.

 

[Gone Peating]

The two Omega 3s most often touted (usually in fish oil), EPA and DHA are 20 and 22 carbon atoms, making both long chain. ALA is 18, which would apparently make it "short" by the definition you linked. But I don't know how good a definition that is, as MCTs, medium chain triglycerides, are between 6-12 carbons, which would make medium chains shorter than short chains.

Oh woops thank you for correcting me