How Can We Help Jordan Peterson, I Might Have A Direct Line

[gately]

Few things are as obnoxious as people who have reason to have to have heard of MK ultra advocating taking hallucinogens under any circumstances but especially in any case where the problem isn't lack of "seeing the face of GOD bro" but a publicized case of lack of a good diet and spiraling drug addiction. Also-- sorry-for being impolite about those who are absent from the discussion-- since this forum is big on stressors it's worth considering that the direction in which his daughter has gone would be hard on any father. Mechanistic explanations are useful especially since he's almost certainly suffering from a lot of deficienciesbut you can't ignore the personal side of the equation, especially since he may have perceived it as a kind of failure of his philosophy for which he as the person who popularizes/tries to help people with it may be culpable. Social stressors aren't discussed enough on this forum IMHO but it's understandable since they're nebulous and hard to pin down. WRT endotoxin, it's worth considering that even if there is an endotoxin problem (unlikely, afaik) that the human body is generally equipped to deal with this and the solution would be to focus on getting Peterson's body back online rather than chasing the cat's tail and attacking symptoms. Endotoxin is of course an issue but the cases of endotoxin posioning are exceptional and you see it pop up in this forum BECAUSE it's somewhat unusual to see acute endotoxicity and people have to look far and wide to figure out if this is their issue.

RE: insomnia from glycine-- I had this at some point but bulksupplements is good and so is FINE Japan but respecting collagen I'd be concerned about asking anyone in his condition to supplement with anything from which adulterants and allergens can't be entirely ruled out. I'm mystified as to what issues one could take with hair testing but maybe a combination of hair/nail and blood testing would be better lol?

Re: carnivore, I'm not sure why it helps but it does. The only significant alteration I've made since my carnivore days has been adding supplemental glycine and a larger amount of fruit and sugar. This was from consideration of the fact that fresh meat has glycogen and then also from taking a closer look at ancestral carnivore diets and realizing that honey and fruit formed a much larger component of diet than the frankly misleading accounts of paleotards and people like sv3rige would lead you to believe. This fixed pretty much every issue I had with the diet and was able to come off of "adaptogens" which I suspect may have done as much harm as good anyways. I don't think that Vitamin A depletion is a valid explanation especially since people love to harp on how long it takes and really can't account for Peterson's testimony of immediate improvement provided he was being truthful. I reacted poorly to organ meat for a while but I would pin refeeding syndrome as the culprit

Agreed on every point here.

 

[snacks]

We do know and it's much simpler than that. It's because of stress hormones making them more alert and energetic, at least temporarily. Not only that, but also the fact that switching to mainly lipolysis will ameliorate symptoms of glucose intolerance, at first.

Yeh i would heavily dispute that the only benefits of carnivore come from "stress hormones" as mine were through the ******* floor through most of it (confirmed by blood tests) and I still felt alert/fine until I could no longer afford good meat and had to use grocery store fare. I think the reason carnivore works for some people is poorly understood but it's either highly individual or tied to race or some sort of epigenetic expression

 

[gately]

We do know and it's much simpler than that. It's because of stress hormones making them more alert and energetic, at least temporarily. Not only that, but also the fact that switching to mainly lipolysis will ameliorate symptoms of glucose intolerance, at first.

Anderson family. Owlsey Stanley. Plains Indians. Mongolian nomads. Inuits.

Take the Anderson family: When even a straight up Pemmican and ribeye-only diet have clearly worked phenomenally for an entire family for 20+ years, I kind of doubt you can chalk it all up to stress hormones. Their own two children have almost exclusively followed the diet and are perfectly healthy.

Don’t get me wrong: I don’t advocate the carnivore diet for anyone but the most seriously ill who might as well try it as a last ditch effort. We simply don’t know the potential dangers yet, as evidenced by Jordan Peterson. And the diet certainly didn’t work for me...

But do you really think this is the most appropriate thread to debate why the carnivore diet works for some people?

Fight me about the Inuits getting carbs from fresh raw meat, or the Mongolians drinking berry mikshakes in summertime, or the chad Comanches trading with those beta simp tribes for corn somewhere else, my little anti-carnivore zealot.

 

[Blossom]

. And he is old.

Born in June 12, 1962 according to Wikipedia.

 

[CoconutEffect]

Few things are as obnoxious as people who have reason to have to have heard of MK ultra advocating taking hallucinogens under any circumstances but especially in any case where the problem isn't lack of "seeing the face of GOD bro" but a publicized case of lack of a good diet and spiraling drug addiction. Also-- sorry-for being impolite about those who are absent from the discussion-- since this forum is big on stressors it's worth considering that the direction in which his daughter has gone would be hard on any father. Mechanistic explanations are useful especially since he's almost certainly suffering from a lot of deficienciesbut you can't ignore the personal side of the equation, especially since he may have perceived it as a kind of failure of his philosophy for which he as the person who popularizes/tries to help people with it may be culpable. Social stressors aren't discussed enough on this forum IMHO but it's understandable since they're nebulous and hard to pin down. WRT endotoxin, it's worth considering that even if there is an endotoxin problem (unlikely, afaik) that the human body is generally equipped to deal with this and the solution would be to focus on getting Peterson's body back online rather than chasing the cat's tail and attacking symptoms. Endotoxin is of course an issue but the cases of endotoxin posioning are exceptional and you see it pop up in this forum BECAUSE it's somewhat unusual to see acute endotoxicity and people have to look far and wide to figure out if this is their issue.

RE: insomnia from glycine-- I had this at some point but bulksupplements is good and so is FINE Japan but respecting collagen I'd be concerned about asking anyone in his condition to supplement with anything from which adulterants and allergens can't be entirely ruled out. I'm mystified as to what issues one could take with hair testing but maybe a combination of hair/nail and blood testing would be better lol?

Re: carnivore, I'm not sure why it helps but it does. The only significant alteration I've made since my carnivore days has been adding supplemental glycine and a larger amount of fruit and sugar. This was from consideration of the fact that fresh meat has glycogen and then also from taking a closer look at ancestral carnivore diets and realizing that honey and fruit formed a much larger component of diet than the frankly misleading accounts of paleotards and people like sv3rige would lead you to believe. This fixed pretty much every issue I had with the diet and was able to come off of "adaptogens" which I suspect may have done as much harm as good anyways. I don't think that Vitamin A depletion is a valid explanation especially since people love to harp on how long it takes and really can't account for Peterson's testimony of immediate improvement provided he was being truthful. I reacted poorly to organ meat for a while but I would pin refeeding syndrome as the culprit

I’m sure it’s more than just a few things, and I don’t understand your point about MK ultra, probably because you don’t have a point.

I wouldn’t shout down information that could help people because you’re pointless.

JPB did/does not have a “spiraling drug addiction”, also, if you can’t apprehend the difference between addiction and dependence, you’re not capable of nuanced thought.

First batch/for micro/benzo withdrawal relief - Amanita Research Forum

^ people coming of benzos micro dosing Amanita.

It’s interesting! He has damage from the Klonopin withdrawal, sure diet matters, so might powerful anxiolytics like Muscimol.... I said “might” .... this is a think tank of sorts, is it not?

Amanita Muscaria - testimonial from Quora

“I happened to have found the natural source where the pharmaceutical company got the benzo class of drugs. After trying unsuccessfully to taper off klonopin for 5 years, this is the only thing that did it. It’s called Amanita Muscaria. It’s a mushroom and it’s legal in most countries. I tapered using the Ashton Method and when I got to a minimal dose, I used Amanita to get off the rest rapidly with no side effects from withdrawal. It also seems to have some healing properties to it which are the opposite of the drug.
This is nothing new with modern medicine where they take out and synthesize a single component of a natural substance and wind up making a powerful but damaging drug out of it. When the natural version can sometimes have better effects without the harmful side effects due to other proteins and polyccharides and enzymes in it.
I say it saved my life because I was at the point of suicide trying to get off benzos and after using this I got off klonopin, got my brain back have no anxiety and only microdose it about once every 2 weeks. I got joy and motivation back in my life after a decade of being almost crippled with panic and benzo use and withdrawal. Check out Amanita Dreamer’s channel on YT.”

 

[Tarmander]

I’m sure it’s more than just a few things, and I don’t understand your point about MK ultra, probably because you don’t have a point.

I wouldn’t shout down information that could help people because you’re pointless.

JPB did/does not have a “spiraling drug addiction”, also, if you can’t apprehend the difference between addiction and dependence, you’re not capable of nuanced thought.

First batch/for micro/benzo withdrawal relief - Amanita Research Forum

^ people coming of benzos micro dosing Amanita.

It’s interesting! He has damage from the Klonopin withdrawal, sure diet matters, so might powerful anxiolytics like Muscimol.... I said “might” .... this is a think tank of sorts, is it not?

Amanita Muscaria - testimonial from Quora

“I happened to have found the natural source where the pharmaceutical company got the benzo class of drugs. After trying unsuccessfully to taper off klonopin for 5 years, this is the only thing that did it. It’s called Amanita Muscaria. It’s a mushroom and it’s legal in most countries. I tapered using the Ashton Method and when I got to a minimal dose, I used Amanita to get off the rest rapidly with no side effects from withdrawal. It also seems to have some healing properties to it which are the opposite of the drug.
This is nothing new with modern medicine where they take out and synthesize a single component of a natural substance and wind up making a powerful but damaging drug out of it. When the natural version can sometimes have better effects without the harmful side effects due to other proteins and polyccharides and enzymes in it.
I say it saved my life because I was at the point of suicide trying to get off benzos and after using this I got off klonopin, got my brain back have no anxiety and only microdose it about once every 2 weeks. I got joy and motivation back in my life after a decade of being almost crippled with panic and benzo use and withdrawal. Check out Amanita Dreamer’s channel on YT.”

Perhaps the other thing I would tell him is just how bad the reputation is online for any kind of mental health drug. There are huge facebook groups of people trying to get over the side effects and long term consequences of these drugs.

One of his main arguments to atheists is that we can't just throw out the bible because on the surface it appears irrational. The biblical stories are very complicated and we don't know how much bathwater there is to baby

In the same way, the brain is complicated beyond belief and the idea that you can tweak a chemical here or there and come out with something workable is akin to an atheist changing some foundational societal structure and everything working out peachy.

Granted, sometimes as a psychologist you are dealing with a case so horrendous you must use drugs, but he is not one of those cases. If the choice is to use a drug (klonopin) or LOSE, he should just LOSE.

Born in June 12, 1962 according to Wikipedia.

sorry blossom lol...is that not old?

 

[rei]

i highly doubt OP is right in thinking the dude reads his messages, he is probably messaging an office number where all collect in an inbox no-one cares about.

 

[CoconutEffect]

i highly doubt OP is right in thinking the dude reads his messages, he is probably messaging an office number where all collect in an inbox no-one cares about.

It’s his cell phone.
I don’t know for sure that he’s reading, but knowing him...

 

[CoconutEffect]

So let’s help the son of a b****, eh? @Tarmander your posts are most helpful, because yes, “tell him about Ray Peat” .... it’s like, who? There are a lot of names in this crooked industry. “Tell him about David Wolfe” you get my point. Or Dr Mercola!

Anything that can be told to just anyone probably won’t be effective. Personalized —- as if you’ve been watching his suffering, and is if you care. And then go off with your brilliance. Many of you are a lot smarter than I am.

 

[Joyous]

I've been worried about him for a couple of years, as the carnivore diet necessarily causes metabolic damage, leading to further food intolerances. I think the best article for him would be Matt Stone's "The Catecholamine Honeymoon." It addresses why people feel so well after initiating a strict diet, followed by a prolonged decline in health including mood disruption and food intolerances. Unfortunately the 180D website has formatting issues since it is no longer updated, but this article saved me and many others, and I think it could significantly help JBP (and his daughter). The Catecholamine Honeymoon - 180 Degree Health

 

[Blossom]

Perhaps the other thing I would tell him is just how bad the reputation is online for any kind of mental health drug. There are huge facebook groups of people trying to get over the side effects and long term consequences of these drugs.

One of his main arguments to atheists is that we can't just throw out the bible because on the surface it appears irrational. The biblical stories are very complicated and we don't know how much bathwater there is to baby

In the same way, the brain is complicated beyond belief and the idea that you can tweak a chemical here or there and come out with something workable is akin to an atheist changing some foundational societal structure and everything working out peachy.

Granted, sometimes as a psychologist you are dealing with a case so horrendous you must use drugs, but he is not one of those cases. If the choice is to use a drug (klonopin) or LOSE, he should just LOSE.


sorry blossom lol...is that not old?

I guess not to me since I’ll be 51 soon. :)

 

[snacks]

I’m sure it’s more than just a few things, and I don’t understand your point about MK ultra, probably because you don’t have a point.

I wouldn’t shout down information that could help people because you’re pointless.

JPB did/does not have a “spiraling drug addiction”, also, if you can’t apprehend the difference between addiction and dependence, you’re not capable of nuanced thought.

First batch/for micro/benzo withdrawal relief - Amanita Research Forum

^ people coming of benzos micro dosing Amanita.

It’s interesting! He has damage from the Klonopin withdrawal, sure diet matters, so might powerful anxiolytics like Muscimol.... I said “might” .... this is a think tank of sorts, is it not?

Amanita Muscaria - testimonial from Quora

“I happened to have found the natural source where the pharmaceutical company got the benzo class of drugs. After trying unsuccessfully to taper off klonopin for 5 years, this is the only thing that did it. It’s called Amanita Muscaria. It’s a mushroom and it’s legal in most countries. I tapered using the Ashton Method and when I got to a minimal dose, I used Amanita to get off the rest rapidly with no side effects from withdrawal. It also seems to have some healing properties to it which are the opposite of the drug.
This is nothing new with modern medicine where they take out and synthesize a single component of a natural substance and wind up making a powerful but damaging drug out of it. When the natural version can sometimes have better effects without the harmful side effects due to other proteins and polyccharides and enzymes in it.
I say it saved my life because I was at the point of suicide trying to get off benzos and after using this I got off klonopin, got my brain back have no anxiety and only microdose it about once every 2 weeks. I got joy and motivation back in my life after a decade of being almost crippled with panic and benzo use and withdrawal. Check out Amanita Dreamer’s channel on YT.”

If you don't understand the connection you're most likely not going to-- I really don't believe that it could be any more straightforward. However Peat himself and most of this forum tends to be rather dopey on this issue so there's no point in me descending any further into being catty as this isn't the issue of this thread. If you're just upset about my SEEING THE FACE OF GOD BRO joke then I apologize but I was making a point as well as joking -- I haven't seen anything to suggest that anamita does anything special and irreplacable outside of amanita/psychedelic forums and some posts on quora. There is a time and place to experiment

also, if you can’t apprehend the difference between addiction and dependence, you’re not capable of nuanced thought.

The difference isn't as significant as you're implying as it is unless you throw the rat park experiment out. If addiction is formed as a reliance on a substance to mitigate the effects of a stressor and has the potential to dissipate without it then it is just a specific genera of dependence. This is just semantics

I said “might” .... this is a think tank of sorts, is it not?

Of course and I'm sure you have very good intentions esp since you started this thread but since all I can find about the mechanism of amanita relative to benzos specifically is that its a GABA agonist but is also (caps so you understand the issue) EXTENSIVELY METABOLIZED and ACTS ON AREAS OF THE BRAIN OTHER THAN GABA RECEPTORS I think that @Tarmander is correct and that the risk of suggesting that it be used is unconscionable unless there is truly no alternative. There are a lot of good, sane suggestions in this thread already with attestation from outside of not-drug forums and I don't think that invoking mechanisms that aren't fully understood in a microdose context should be anything but a final resort. Even if it may be potentially helpful isn't suggesting its use before basic things like identifying critical deficiencies a little premature lol

So, since those seemingly "opposite" approaches can both help to achieve a goal, you can combine them, and likely get better results. You won't be running a glucose deficiency like you eventually will on Carnivore, as you are getting carbs from the diet, and so you don't have to waste protein in gluconeogensis. And you won't be running on a protein shortage like you eventually will with Fruitarian, as you are getting plenty of protein from meat, so you don't have to get protein from muscle and vital organs. And also the added bonuses of Saturated Fat and Cholesterol, which both seem to be important building blocks for the body.

Yeah @tankasnowgod I would have to agree that this is as close to the perfect approach as you'll come if you're not the kind of freak (i.e. the Andersens) who just does well on a no holds barred carni diet which I don't think JBP is.

 

[CoconutEffect]

If you don't understand the connection you're most likely not going to-- I really don't believe that it could be any more straightforward. However Peat himself and most of this forum tends to be rather dopey on this issue so there's no point in me descending any further into being catty as this isn't the issue of this thread.



The difference isn't as significant as you're implying as it is unless you throw the rat park experiment out. If addiction is formed as a reliance on a substance to mitigate the effects of a stressor and has the potential to dissipate without it then it is just a specific genera of dependence. This is just semantics



Of course and I'm sure you have very good intentions esp since you started this thread but since all I can find about the mechanism of amanita is that its a GABA agonist but is also (caps so you understand the issue) EXTENSIVELY METABOLIZED and ACTS ON AREAS OF THE BRAIN OTHER THAN GABA RECEPTORS I think that @Tarmander is correct and that the risk of suggesting that it be used is unconscionable unless there is truly no alternative. There are a lot of good, sane suggestions in this thread already with attestation from outside of not-drug forums and I don't think that invoking mechanisms that aren't fully understood in a microdose context should be anything but a final resort

I’ll take you to task about your points later. JPB is a very big boy, just because I’m floating potential therapeutic ideas into a think tank, doesn’t mean he’s going to stupidly ingest Amanita today, you get that, right?

You could do probably do better in your second refutation — addiction vs dependence. What do you know exactly about Jordan’s actual Rat Park, it did include a world tour, btw, that’s hardly a cage.

 

[snacks]

I’ll take you to task about your points later. JPB is a very big boy, just because I’m floating potential therapeutic ideas into a think tank, doesn’t mean he’s going to stupidly ingest Amanita today, you get that, right?

You could do probably do better in your second refutation — addiction vs dependence. What do you know exactly about Jordan’s actual Rat Park, it did include a world tour, btw, that’s hardly a cage.

You're free to take me to task big man but your wording here indicates that your investment in doing so comes out of your ego being hurt so I'll decline to engage with you personally any further than this. For the record I don't think that JBP would take amanita willie-nillie, but am just bristling to the immediate invocation of such a suggestion A) period B) as a potential suggestion given to someone you care about in the absence of very strong data and with other outlets still available

RE: rat park and world tours-- it's you who lacks nuanced thinking here.. I was just talking about the nature of addiction and if you don't understand the relevance you're not going to

 

[Soren]

Anyone have any thoughts as to whether or not Red Light therapy would be helpful. It does not involve taking in any foreign substances that may cause an allergic reaction and has been shown to help relieve virtually all markers of stress.

It has also been shown to help with dyskinesia in people suffering form Parkinson's disease. JP if I recall correctly said that he suffered terribly with this.

Light Therapy in Parkinson’s Disease: Towards Mechanism-based Protocols
"Taken together, these studies have demonstrated that BLT significantly improves motor dysfunction including bradykinesia, rigidity, tremor, nocturnal movements, dyskinesia and postural imbalance"

There are also many studies showing that red light therapy works for improving the whole health of the organism as Ray has said,

"Penetrating red light is possibly the fundamental anti-stress factor for all organisms. The chronic deficiency of such light is, I think, the best explanation for the deterioration which occurs with aging. Enzyme changes, free radical changes, structural and respiratory changes are all involved as consequences of darkness stress.” – Ray Peat

In terms of a product to use I would recommend Gemba Red panels. GembaRed Affordable Low Flicker and Low EMF Red and NIR LED Lights. They are a very solid red light company who unlike most other companies there lights have minimal flicker and they have accurate power readings on their products unlike most which are grossly overestimating the amount of power output due to flawed measurement technicques.

Furthermore in order to get a systemic effect one can apply it to certain areas and it will improve the whole organism. You can find a guide for this on the gembared website:
How to use Targeted Red Light Therapy for a Full-Body Effect!.

The more I think about it Red Light could be a very good low risk step for JP and he is probably in dire need of it. Likely spent a lot of time indoors away from natural sunlight due to his condition and the fact that he has been in Russia recovering hardly places with lots of beneficial red light.

 

[snacks]

Anyone have any thoughts as to whether or not Red Light therapy would be helpful. It does not involve taking in any foreign substances that may cause an allergic reaction and has been shown to help relieve virtually all markers of stress.

It has also been shown to help with dyskinesia in people suffering form Parkinson's disease. JP if I recall correctly said that he suffered terribly with this.

Light Therapy in Parkinson’s Disease: Towards Mechanism-based Protocols
"Taken together, these studies have demonstrated that BLT significantly improves motor dysfunction including bradykinesia, rigidity, tremor, nocturnal movements, dyskinesia and postural imbalance"

There are also many studies showing that red light therapy works for improving the whole health of the organism as Ray has said,

"Penetrating red light is possibly the fundamental anti-stress factor for all organisms. The chronic deficiency of such light is, I think, the best explanation for the deterioration which occurs with aging. Enzyme changes, free radical changes, structural and respiratory changes are all involved as consequences of darkness stress.” – Ray Peat

In terms of a product to use I would recommend Gemba Red panels. GembaRed Affordable Low Flicker and Low EMF Red and NIR LED Lights. They are a very solid red light company who unlike most other companies there lights have minimal flicker and they have accurate power readings on their products unlike most which are grossly overestimating the amount of power output due to flawed measurement technicques.

Furthermore in order to get a systemic effect one can apply it to certain areas and it will improve the whole organism. You can find a guide for this on the gembared website:
How to use Targeted Red Light Therapy for a Full-Body Effect!.

The more I think about it Red Light could be a very good low risk step for JP and he is probably in dire need of it. Likely spent a lot of time indoors away from natural sunlight due to his condition and the fact that he has been in Russia recovering hardly places with lots of beneficial red light.

Red light is very good as long as you contextualize it as a supportive therapy and not the treatment itself in this case. Anything that reduces systemic stress is very desirable in any setting where the body is overwhelmed but the patient needs to be protected against seeing amelioration of symptoms due to this as equivalent to elimination of the issue

 

[YourUniverse]

I dont know how old you are, but in your years, have you ever changed someones mind on a topic they defend fiercely? Especially one that they didn't ask you for help on..?

Why do you think a tenured academic with a self-professed 150 IQ would suddenly change his ways because anyone random, a patient/client, a friend, tells him he should? The only way I know to dazzle a brilliant mind is with a mind even brilliant-er, which is where Ray and his articles come in, written and cited to satisfy the academics.

IMO Tarmander hit the nail on the head with the serotonin - cortisol link. The rest will fall in place. He's a big boy and I think hes well-intentioned, just maybe not armed with the biochemistry he should have trusted.

There is plenty here to satisfy his curiosity:
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging
Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation
Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

 

[gately]

I've been worried about him for a couple of years, as the carnivore diet necessarily causes metabolic damage, leading to further food intolerances. I think the best article for him would be Matt Stone's "The Catecholamine Honeymoon." It addresses why people feel so well after initiating a strict diet, followed by a prolonged decline in health including mood disruption and food intolerances. Unfortunately the 180D website has formatting issues since it is no longer updated, but this article saved me and many others, and I think it could significantly help JBP (and his daughter). The Catecholamine Honeymoon - 180 Degree Health

Matt Stone’s entire remedial approach to people who were damaged by food restriction was to refeed with, essentially, whatever they wanted. As I’ve repeatedly said, JP can’t have a tsp of ACV without it causing a literal month without sleep.

I feel a kinship to Matt Stone, so I’m always hesitant to speak negatively on my fellow ENTPish goons: but his approach is basically worthless if you have serious issues and not just, like, “I ate paleo for a month and now I feel cold and stressed and have tummy ache, what do I do???.”

There is literally nothing in Matt Stone’s work that would be remedial to JP in any realistic way. At best he’d finish Stone’s work and go, “Huh, guess this is what I did wrong. But now what? Cause I can’t exactly eat pancakes and cheeseburgers right now.”

Anyone have any thoughts as to whether or not Red Light therapy would be helpful. It does not involve taking in any foreign substances that may cause an allergic reaction and has been shown to help relieve virtually all markers of stress.

It has also been shown to help with dyskinesia in people suffering form Parkinson's disease. JP if I recall correctly said that he suffered terribly with this.

Light Therapy in Parkinson’s Disease: Towards Mechanism-based Protocols
"Taken together, these studies have demonstrated that BLT significantly improves motor dysfunction including bradykinesia, rigidity, tremor, nocturnal movements, dyskinesia and postural imbalance"

There are also many studies showing that red light therapy works for improving the whole health of the organism as Ray has said,

"Penetrating red light is possibly the fundamental anti-stress factor for all organisms. The chronic deficiency of such light is, I think, the best explanation for the deterioration which occurs with aging. Enzyme changes, free radical changes, structural and respiratory changes are all involved as consequences of darkness stress.” – Ray Peat

In terms of a product to use I would recommend Gemba Red panels. GembaRed Affordable Low Flicker and Low EMF Red and NIR LED Lights. They are a very solid red light company who unlike most other companies there lights have minimal flicker and they have accurate power readings on their products unlike most which are grossly overestimating the amount of power output due to flawed measurement technicques.

Furthermore in order to get a systemic effect one can apply it to certain areas and it will improve the whole organism. You can find a guide for this on the gembared website:
How to use Targeted Red Light Therapy for a Full-Body Effect!.

The more I think about it Red Light could be a very good low risk step for JP and he is probably in dire need of it. Likely spent a lot of time indoors away from natural sunlight due to his condition and the fact that he has been in Russia recovering hardly places with lots of beneficial red light.

I believe his daughter has posted a lot about using red lights (and infrared saunas) so I’m guessing this kind of thing has been on their radar a while. I agree with snacks, in that I’ve never seen red light therapy be anything other than supportive. Still, it’s a really good, safe suggestion. I think we need more of these kinds of posts in this thread: actual suggestions that are likely safe, supportive, and that might even be remedial, or lead to something remedial. If he hasn’t been trying red light, he should be.

@dilantinoid
As has been pointed out, microdosing is likely an incredibly risky idea given the circumstances. No doubt it’s helped you and some other people who’ve been brave enough to try it, and though I am in full agreement with @snacks on this, I haven’t had any inherent problem with you suggesting microdosing. Actually, I like that you proposed it. I think it’s a dynamite last resort kind of move. If I were JP, and I had exhausted all other avenues, I would certainly try it. But we are not at the last house on the block. Judging by the lack of alternative health and nutritional knowledge by those in his immediate circle, we aren’t even at the first house on the block. I’m sure there’s lots of safe and reasonable first, second, and third house ideas floating around our heads.

(Of course, I’m just going off what was mentioned in his daughter’s posts and the recent podcast they’ve done. I don’t really know the extent of what they’ve tried. Nobody here does.We’re outsiders looking in.)

So let’s move on. I understand you want this to be a think tank. I do, too. But in a think tank, ideas are going to go through the grinder of critical analysis, so it’s a good thing we’re tearing into each other’s ideas. Let’s continue in that spirit. The goal is for JP to see this whole thread right? Like he might be following along with us right now?

It seems to me that you want to guide the discussion of the tank into the realm of theory and you’ve repeatedly praised @Tarmander ’s initial post about his experience with dopamine and serotonin. (I like Tarmander’s post a lot, I agree with it, and he’s certainly supplied you with what you’ve initially asked for: a bite-sized RP for JP.) You want the “think tank“ to be about what theory would help JP arrive at a conclusion that might lead to a remedy, without actually having any actual discussion about what remedy might help him. That’s the wrong approach, imo, because I’ll say it plainly, again: there is likely nothing very useful about exposing Ray Peat’s work to Jordan Peterson, though it’s certainly mind expanding. If your goal is to help Ray with this thread, your priority shouldn’t be to incite us to inject the world’s most perfect, bite-sized forum post of Ray theory into JP’s veins so that he catches some Peaty theory virus and suddenly sees the holy light about sugar, CO2, thyroid, and coconut oil: the guy can’t eat anything but steak without almost going insane / dying. The best ideas here, so far, are the ones that are potential concrete steps towards ameliorating his suffering, not extra theory for him to chew on.

Because, I hope you understand that despite as smart as he may be: He’s very likely not going to figure this out on his own, regardless of what theory you put in front of him. His knowledge of alternative health seems to extend as far as his daughter, and we all know how dire that is. He needs actionable ideas from people who know their alternative health, who’ve seen or worked with people who’ve improved from similar circumstances, or have some inkling for how he might climb out of rib-eye hell, not more theories about serotonin and cortisol.

 

[Joyous]

Gately, you seem to have followed JBP's particular situation more closely than I have. Still, I don't think additional obscure testing and fussy adherence to a specific supplement plan, as some are discussing, is going to address the root of his problem, which is likely based in complete metabolic havoc and fragility inflicted by following Mikhaila's guidance. Spending another few years attempting to identify some missing micronutrient may yield no conclusions anyway. He didn't seem to have severe food intolerances before becoming so restrictive. The more restrictive he became, the more intolerances he developed. Unfortunately, the only way out of this may be to suffer through a period of re-exposure to "normal" food, which, as per Matt Stone, may restore his metabolic health such that he can again eat a range of foods without unpleasant consequences.

 

[snacks]

Gately, you seem to have followed JBP's particular situation more closely than I have. Still, I don't think additional obscure testing and fussy adherence to a specific supplement plan, as some are discussing, is going to address the root of his problem, which is likely based in complete metabolic havoc and fragility inflicted by following Mikhaila's guidance. Spending another few years attempting to identify some missing micronutrient may yield no conclusions anyway. He didn't seem to have severe food intolerances before becoming so restrictive. The more restrictive he became, the more intolerances he developed. Unfortunately, the only way out of this may be to suffer through a period of re-exposure to "normal" food, which, as per Matt Stone, may restore his metabolic health such that he can again eat a range of foods without unpleasant consequences.

A) on no planet does identifying deficiencies which are known to occur as a result of the specific (and not uncommon) things JBP did take years. Metabolic fragility isn't a platonic abstraction, it has causes one of which is... deficiencies and depletion of things essential to life
B) those deficiencies can be fatal
C) so can shock therapy wrt food

Whether or not JBP is in a condition to reintroduce normal foods is imho out of our wheelhouse to speculate on unless someone in here is far more intimate with his exact situation than any of us