How Can I Trust Ideallabs Or Healthynatura When It Comes To Buying Vit K2?

[Outcel]

Any external tests? Proof that Im not paying 50 bucks for Snake Oil?
Help would be much appreciated!

 

[Outcel]

? anybody knows

 

[opethfeldt]

Quite a few idealabs products have been tested. I can also attest to both companies making quality products. All gave results as intended. Afraid I can't offer much more than my anecdotal experience with both companies.

 

[homyak]

? anybody knows

Read the product thread.

 

[CastorTroy]

I advise against Healthnatura's new K2. They used to have the best K2 I've ever seen available in the market, what they called "TrueK2" with a perfect 89 to 11 ratio of mk4 to mk7. That gave you glorious 110mcg mk7 and 890mcg mk4 aprox. amount per drop. There are studies that concluded very good health outcomes with 200mcg of daily mk7 long term. But as it usually happens with lots of good products, sometimes they decide to change with a another cheaper substitute, which is what Healthnatura did with their "dream" TrueK2 product. The actual one is almost all mk4 with a barely neligible 1% of mk7, that and nothing is virtually the same. 990mcg mk4 with 10mcg mk7 per drop.Ridiculous move if you ask me which I can't understand. I'm still searching for the manufacturer of that "TrueK2" though, with that perfect blend of mk4 and mk7.

Healthnatura used to be known for the top of the notch quality products. Sadly it looks this is no longer, since they decided to go with a cheaper K2 over their original source. I'd try idealabs until we find that "true" TrueK2 source. You can try with Thornes K2, thats the one i used to buy before the original TrueK2 release, and the one I got back to recently. I discontinued other products I used to buy from them since I 'm unsure what they'll doing with other products after this new cheaper philosophy move.

 

[Jman]

I have been using their true K2 everyday for a bit over a year now, topically around 20mg ( probably around 10%of it actually absorbed, so like 2mg) and I really like it. I have been doing a minimum of 600mg aspirin, 1 gram often, everyday for a year now as well. If I don't take any K I will bruise like crazy after about a week of aspirin. There's been no bruising, no excessive bleeding if I cut myself. I have noticed bleeding if I forget to use the K for a few days. So my experience tells me its good stuff.

 

[mrchibbs]

@healthnatura

 

[Beastmode]

Any external tests? Proof that Im not paying 50 bucks for Snake Oil?
Help would be much appreciated!

Ideal Labs K2 is my favorite product of their's so far.

Androgenic boosts, cleaner teeth and overall shift in mood when taking it.

I felt this on small doses 1-2 drops and bigger doses 10+. The bigger ones I believe gave me the noticeable difference in my teeth. The androgenic part was felt on 1-2 drops rubbed into my balls.

 

[CastorTroy]

This was their original TrueK2, see in the pic attached. As you can see, proper amounts of mk4 and mk7 in health effective amounts given the studies that remark the benefits of mk7 strain. Lots of healthy foods like natto and some cheese varieties provide proper amounts of mk7.

Low-Dose Daily Intake of Vitamin K(2) (Menaquinone-7) Improves Osteocalcin γ-Carboxylation: A Double-Blind, Randomized Controlled Trials. - PubMed - NCBI
"Undercarboxylated osteocalcin concentrations decreased significantly, and the carboxylated osteocalcin/undercarboxylated osteocalcin ratio increased significantly in the 100 μg menaquinone-7 group compared with the placebo group (Study 2). Daily menaquinone-7 intake ≥100 μg was suggested to improve osteocalcin γ-carboxylation."

Effects of menaquinone-7 supplementation in patients with aortic valve calcification: study protocol for a randomised controlled trial
"Presently, the Belgian group are performing a randomised trial exploring the efficacy of 2000 µg of MK-7 thrice weekly.33 MK-7 is well tolerated and does not cause a hypercoagulable state.30 There are no reported adverse effects associated with the use of MK-7.31"
"We hypothesise that MK-7 supplementation will slow down the progression of valves calcification."

Choosing the Right Vitamin K2: Menaquinone-4 vs Menaquinone-7
"Based on this small study, it appears that MK-7 in doses of 100 µg daily for 3 months can improve disease activity score in RA patients."

Vitamin K2 Researcher, Dr. Cees Vermeer, Honored As A Top Scientist
“The groundbreaking scientific data showing positive impact on bone health and cardiovascular health with daily intake of 180 mcg vitamin K2 (MK-7) is of very high importance for our future design of vitamin K2-containing health products. We will very soon be able to offer our customers vitamin K2-containing products - not with 45 mcg MK-7 that is the commonly found amount —but with 180 mcg — as was used in the data from Professor Vermeer.”

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I don’t agree @CastorTroy
It’s absolutely legitimate if you look for certain amounts of Mk-7. Mk7 products are plenty and from many producers. Nearly pure Mk4 is rare. That’s what the focus of healthNatura. Many seek the properties of Mk4, which are different to Mk7 in some respect.
Your verdict that a product with less Mk7 portion is an inferior product cannot stand.
Read the Kuinone thread as a primer why Mk4 is preferred for certain aspects of health. There is nothing not „proper“ about HN’s Vit-K product.

 

[CastorTroy]

@LeeLemonoil You're free to disagree. It's my opinion what I expressed. You can see here some of the claims from HealthNatura when they introduced their original TrueK2 product, to me, the best k2 product it's ever been on the market (far away from what today offers being another random k2 product out there):

- Over purification of Mk4 to remove Mk7 damages the Mk4 and other residual isomerides of K2.
- True K2 is a 95% pure K2 that is Mk4 dominate derived from a natural base of vegan vitamin K1 with a breakdown of 85% Mk4 and roughly 10-12% naturally occurring K2 isomerides which is mostly Mk7.

Almost all we have in the market is overpurified mk4, representing this the major production way these days, so I guess is cheaper to source from a one of these manufacturers for reselling.

Natural k2 in nature use to be presented as a more balanced array of isomerides, being here interested specially on mk4 and mk7.

 

[Ableton]

I have been using their true K2 everyday for a bit over a year now, topically around 20mg ( probably around 10%of it actually absorbed, so like 2mg) and I really like it. I have been doing a minimum of 600mg aspirin, 1 gram often, everyday for a year now as well. If I don't take any K I will bruise like crazy after about a week of aspirin. There's been no bruising, no excessive bleeding if I cut myself. I have noticed bleeding if I forget to use the K for a few days. So my experience tells me its good stuff.

i thought absorption rates of k2 are MUCH higher even topically.
Where did you get that?

 

[Dave Clark]

I advise against Healthnatura's new K2. They used to have the best K2 I've ever seen available in the market, what they called "TrueK2" with a perfect 89 to 11 ratio of mk4 to mk7. That gave you glorious 110mcg mk7 and 890mcg mk4 aprox. amount per drop. There are studies that concluded very good health outcomes with 200mcg of daily mk7 long term. But as it usually happens with lots of good products, sometimes they decide to change with a another cheaper substitute, which is what Healthnatura did with their "dream" TrueK2 product. The actual one is almost all mk4 with a barely neligible 1% of mk7, that and nothing is virtually the same. 990mcg mk4 with 10mcg mk7 per drop.Ridiculous move if you ask me which I can't understand. I'm still searching for the manufacturer of that "TrueK2" though, with that perfect blend of mk4 and mk7.

Healthnatura used to be known for the top of the notch quality products. Sadly it looks this is no longer, since they decided to go with a cheaper K2 over their original source. I'd try idealabs until we find that "true" TrueK2 source. You can try with Thornes K2, thats the one i used to buy before the original TrueK2 release, and the one I got back to recently. I discontinued other products I used to buy from them since I 'm unsure what they'll doing with other products after this new cheaper philosophy move.

You are telling people to try other brands, such as IdeaLabs, Thorne, etc. Do you know for sure that they satisfy the specifications that you mentioned?

 

[Amazoniac]

- Vitamin K2-Mk4 Now Available!
- Idealabs K2 V Health Natura K2 ?

Considering the doses that people use around here, the refinement must have prevented a few hospitalizations due to menaquinosis-7. It's easy to find members getting 5 mg or so of K2, which in that case would provide 0.55 mg of mk-7.

Appealing to nature taking 0.9 mg of purified mk-4 daily would make no sense. Having lipids under the same classification doesn't mean that other components that are more important than their distribution aren't being excluded in processing. For example, foods contain a variety of poisonoids in trace amounts, some aren't desirable, is it more concerning the loss of the natural array or tocoinphernals? In being busy trying obtain natural proportions you might miss the disproportion that's created in relation to the others elements.

Having them separate gives you control over what's needed, we don't know if that's the ideal distribution either. If it was prepared from other material, these might change, would they continue to be optimal?

 

[CastorTroy]

Nearly pure Mk4 is rare.

Not at all. Long before HealthNatura original TrueK2 release, Thornes K2 was worldwide available and the most used and known product out there. You say it, plain mk-4 strain. When TrueK2 was relased, I went all over it, it was almost a revolutionary product (you may find if you look out HealthNatura ceo posting here threatens to his person and family by some big supps market he refused to name here). Hence you have an idea about it. I promoted the Truek2 all over here and even to friends who usually ask me advise about quality supplements. I've been using it for over 2 years or more, until it suddenly changed its composition, to another generic 99%mk-4 k2 product. Nothing agains HealthNatura, but I can't recommend their new K2. Cheaper looking at bottle overall price, but much more expensive per mg of mk-7.

You are telling people to try other brands, such as IdeaLabs, Thorne, etc. Do you know for sure that they satisfy the specifications that you mentioned?

I'm not tell people to buy this or another product, Im just giving advise based on what K2 product I'd use. I've documented long on K2, read all C.Masterjohn extensive work on it... etc. I've been using this since original TrueK2 got discontinued:
Full Spectrum Vitamin K2

It's trans (not CIS) and well balanced among the rest of products available I see right now.

 

[CastorTroy]

I've just found at the @Amazoniac link this from healthnatura,

"I've still been playing with the Vitamin K family and we will be having a few new products coming out soon including our original formula, an Mk7 and a "master" blend. They would have been out sooner but I got distracted by hemp and CBD recently."

I had not heard about this, if this is true it would be great to have their original formula back again and that interesting "master blend".

 

[Jman]

i thought absorption rates of k2 are MUCH higher even topically.
Where did you get that?

Ray said things dissolved in oil absorb most often around 10% but it can vary from 5% to 30% depending on the thickness of your skin, how well you rubbed it in and how often you shower.

 

[haidut]

Any external tests? Proof that Im not paying 50 bucks for Snake Oil?
Help would be much appreciated!

If you find a lab that can test them and are willing to pay for the tests I can donate 1-2 bottles of Kuinone so you can see for yourself. For what it's worth, vitamin K2 (MK-4) is not easy to fake as a product. It has a very distinctive yellow color, is tasteless and has either no or very faint odor (unlike the various yellow dyes used in the food industry that could be used to try and fake it), and if placed under the tongue at a sufficient dose (5mg+ per pop) within minutes induces a sense of calm (or even sedation) due to raising GABA and lowering estrogen. There are also blood tests you can do to assess if a product is changing your vitamin K status, which would probably be much cheaper than testing the actual product in a lab. Here are some blood tests that you can get direct or through your doctor and those should show a change after using a product that contains vitamin K.
Test Detail
Test Detail
Test Detail

 

[lampofred]

Not at all. Long before HealthNatura original TrueK2 release, Thornes K2 was worldwide available and the most used and known product out there. You say it, plain mk-4 strain. When TrueK2 was relased, I went all over it, it was almost a revolutionary product (you may find if you look out HealthNatura ceo posting here threatens to his person and family by some big supps market he refused to name here). Hence you have an idea about it. I promoted the Truek2 all over here and even to friends who usually ask me advise about quality supplements. I've been using it for over 2 years or more, until it suddenly changed its composition, to another generic 99%mk-4 k2 product. Nothing agains HealthNatura, but I can't recommend their new K2. Cheaper looking at bottle overall price, but much more expensive per mg of mk-7.


I'm not tell people to buy this or another product, Im just giving advise based on what K2 product I'd use. I've documented long on K2, read all C.Masterjohn extensive work on it... etc. I've been using this since original TrueK2 got discontinued:
Full Spectrum Vitamin K2

It's trans (not CIS) and well balanced among the rest of products available I see right now.

I didn't know mk-7 was so important. I thought most of the benefits of vitamin K came from mk-4. What does mk-7 do in the body that mk-4 doesn't do? Also do you think whole milk would be a good source of mk-7 (as opposed to low-fat milk)? I have heard there are various forms of vitamin K (including mk-7) in milk fat.

 

[CastorTroy]

I didn't know mk-7 was so important. I thought most of the benefits of vitamin K came from mk-4. What does mk-7 do in the body that mk-4 doesn't do? Also do you think whole milk would be a good source of mk-7 (as opposed to low-fat milk)? I have heard there are various forms of vitamin K (including mk-7) in milk fat.

Both should be ideal, but I priorize mk-7. Japanese are well know for low risk of cardiovascular disease, and natto is very common on their diet, which has lots of mk-7. See this post from @Arrade,

K2 Mk4 Or Mk7?