How Can I Improve Glycogen Storage?

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freyasam

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God, how depressing to see this thread from back when I was only half as unhealthy as I am now. Debilitating fatigue, severely restricted life, massive weight gain, and type 2 diabetes.

All my symptoms continue despite having tried everything people have suggested in these groups, and Peat has suggested to me. Now I'm back to re-trying old supplements. The latest is B1. I get anxiety from only 60 mg of mononitrate taken with food.
 

sunraiser

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God, how depressing to see this thread from back when I was only half as unhealthy as I am now. Debilitating fatigue, severely restricted life, massive weight gain, and type 2 diabetes.

All my symptoms continue despite having tried everything people have suggested in these groups, and Peat has suggested to me. Now I'm back to re-trying old supplements. The latest is B1. I get anxiety from only 60 mg of mononitrate taken with food.

I haven’t read all of the thread but your goal isn’t to increase glycogen storage, it’s to improve insulin sensitivity.

Eating more fat and less carbs probably a good start. Doing the same thing that’s making you overly hungry isn’t wise if you’re gaining excessive weight, and more importantly feeling bad. It doesn’t have to be dogmatic or extreme - plenty of people thrive on 33 / 33 / 33 or varying macro ratios. These ratios change day in day out depending on what’s appealing (though metabolic stimulants like caffeine and sugar can interfere with this intuition).

Magnesium and zinc are both extremely important in dealing with insulin resistance, though you might not tolerate magnesium without sufficient vit A, D and K (from foods to craving and sun when it feels good).

You could try making a big batch of chilli with beef mince to eat throughout the week, adding rice or sweet potatoes if they seem appealing. If you find yourself half way through the rice and not wanting more then leave it. Perhaps try eating a very high fat meal mid morning one day and see how it impacts your hunger (I really think beef mince is ideal for this experiment, you could add lentils for a little copper)
 
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Waynish

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These ratios change day in day out depending on what’s appealing (though metabolic stimulants like caffeine and sugar can interfere with this intuition).
I think your thought process so are good in general. However, I'd like to see a debate on this topic. What are you favorite sources for this idea (that caffeine and sugar alter correct intuition)?
 

brainfog

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God, how depressing to see this thread from back when I was only half as unhealthy as I am now. Debilitating fatigue, severely restricted life, massive weight gain, and type 2 diabetes.

All my symptoms continue despite having tried everything people have suggested in these groups, and Peat has suggested to me. Now I'm back to re-trying old supplements. The latest is B1. I get anxiety from only 60 mg of mononitrate taken with food.

Have you tried eating smaller meals every 2-3 hours (with carbs/protien/fat)? Ive read it helpt for some. I tried it for a day or two and my temprature shoot up to 99.5 F/37.5 C - so im asumming i actueally stored sugar. I actully felt calm those days and my muscle was very relaxed - got more flexible. And i could go several hours without eating and temprature stayed up. My temp is usally 36.6-37.0 and i feel stress/anxoius all the time.

Im going back to eating every 3 hours. I dont know why i stopped really. I think i convinced myself it was becouse i started to eat a little more fibre and/or taking vitamin D, which was clearly not the case.

This video explain it better:

I think you should start lift some weights also. Start small and build up in your own speed so you dont crash and only get benefits from it. Its very protective and will make you healthier to have more muscles.


Good news for people suffering from fatty liver disease: Resistance training can help
8 reasons why weight training is incredible for your health
 
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lollipop

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Have you tried eating smaller meals every 2-3 hours (with carbs/protien/fat)? Ive read it helpt for some. I tried it for a day or two and my temprature shoot up to 99.5 F/37.5 C - so im asumming i actueally stored sugar. I actully felt calm those days and my muscle was very relaxed - got more flexible. And i could go several hours without eating and temprature stayed up. My temp is usally 36.6-37.0 and i feel stress/anxoius all the time.

Im going back to eating every 3 hours. I dont know why i stopped really. I think i convinced myself it was becouse i started to eat a little more fibre and/or taking vitamin D, which was clearly not the case.

This video explain it better:

I think you should start lift some weights also. Start small and build up in your own speed so you dont crash and only get benefits from it. Its very protective and will make you healthier to have more muscles.


Good news for people suffering from fatty liver disease: Resistance training can help
8 reasons why weight training is incredible for your health

+1 good post and good suggestions.
 
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freyasam

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Have you tried eating smaller meals every 2-3 hours (with carbs/protien/fat)? Ive read it helpt for some. I tried it for a day or two and my temprature shoot up to 99.5 F/37.5 C - so im asumming i actueally stored sugar. I actully felt calm those days and my muscle was very relaxed - got more flexible. And i could go several hours without eating and temprature stayed up. My temp is usally 36.6-37.0 and i feel stress/anxoius all the time.

Im going back to eating every 3 hours. I dont know why i stopped really. I think i convinced myself it was becouse i started to eat a little more fibre and/or taking vitamin D, which was clearly not the case.

This video explain it better:

I think you should start lift some weights also. Start small and build up in your own speed so you dont crash and only get benefits from it. Its very protective and will make you healthier to have more muscles.


Good news for people suffering from fatty liver disease: Resistance training can help
8 reasons why weight training is incredible for your health

I've been eating every 2 hours for 8 years now
 

brainfog

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I've been eating every 2 hours for 8 years now
Ok.

Maybe these threads are helpful:
Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension
Aging Associated With A Loss Of Ability To Metabolize Glucose

I saw that you react badly to caffeine. But you wont if you start whit at dose att 5-15mg or teaspoon/tablespoon with a meal. And increase it when you can. The stress you feel from caffeine might just simple be bad liver functions. Im in a much better health then i was half a year ago - and all i did was take more caffeine. In the beginning i had horrible symptoms - but you dont have to have bad symptoms from caffeine, if you start at a dose you barely feel, and increase it slowly.
 

Cirion

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I will add that I've always been a poor metabolizer of caffeine as well. The solution to the problem is actually quite simple. Have lots of calories (preferably sugar) with your caffeine. In the morning, what I have found is working quite nicely for me, is to have as much as 2 liters of OJ with my 300 mg of caffeine. And I don't have protein or fats in the morning anymore, they interfere with filling up my glucose stores in the morning. I still try to avoid caffeine at other times besides morning though. Plenty of salt is needed to counter act possible stress response too.

I'm still new to Peat but I'm personally enjoying some success on 20% protein 20% fats 60% carbs. 10-10-80 was too extreme, and 33-33-33 is way too high fat imo (high fat is what you do NOT want when trying to become insulin sensitive). Going high on protein can be useful though, if you have satiety problems, Haidut posted a study saying you may wish to consider going as high as 35% protein, but I don't wanna go higher than around 25-30% protein because I want to keep at least a 2:1 carb:protein ratio.
 
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sunraiser

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I will add that I've always been a poor metabolizer of caffeine as well. The solution to the problem is actually quite simple. Have lots of calories (preferably sugar) with your caffeine. In the morning, what I have found is working quite nicely for me, is to have as much as 2 liters of OJ with my 300 mg of caffeine. And I don't have protein or fats in the morning anymore, they interfere with filling up my glucose stores in the morning. I still try to avoid caffeine at other times besides morning though. Plenty of salt is needed to counter act possible stress response too.

I'm still new to Peat but I'm personally enjoying some success on 20% protein 20% fats 60% carbs. 10-10-80 was too extreme, and 33-33-33 is way too high fat imo (high fat is what you do NOT want when trying to become insulin sensitive). Going high on protein can be useful though, if you have satiety problems, Haidut posted a study saying you may wish to consider going as high as 35% protein, but I don't wanna go higher than around 25-30% protein because I want to keep at least a 2:1 carb:protein ratio.

Eating high carb and low fat is not going to make you insulin sensitive either, it’s only going to increase insulin demands when the body isn’t replete in the minerals needed to handle said carbs.

Becoming replete in fat solubles, magnesium and zinc along with tolerable exercise for liver health is a sensible path for anyone to take. Jamming down orange juice and high carbs when the body isn’t healthy enough is a fast track to worsening diabetes.

In the absence of a metabolic stimulator like refined juice or white sugar then cravings will dictate the most appropriate macros, which will change day in day out.
 

sunraiser

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I think your thought process so are good in general. However, I'd like to see a debate on this topic. What are you favorite sources for this idea (that caffeine and sugar alter correct intuition)?

I don’t have sources beyond dopaminergic responses to stimulants and understanding of neuroplasticity in this regard. It’s just from personal experience and accumulated knowledge.

Essentially, the body will respond to whatever quickly brings about apparent homeostasis, and that’s why dopaminergic and GABA stimulating drugs are so addictive for people in poor states of physiology - they lower cortisol and create a temporarily favourable state in the brain (at an ever diminishing cost).

Thyroid surrogates and metabolic stimulants give the body a signal that everything is working for a short period of time and this is wired into the brain. The cost to the body is high because the state of heightened thyroid is not coming from a healthy and robust metabolism, it’s being forced via use of resources the body isn’t replete in and can’t spare.

The brain, however, only responds to the positive neurochemical balance these substances bring, and this overrides natural nutritional cravings.

Personal example, I quit sugar for a long time and completely stopped craving it. I ate low salt and never ever stopped craving it. One is necessary one is not.

I feel like Peat intends sugar consumption and thyroid surrogates to be more of a short term metabolic hack than a long term dietary solution.
 

Cirion

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Actually, sugar is in fact one of the main premises behind restoring insulin sensitivity. If you haven't read it already, I recommend reading "Sugar Issues" by RP Glucose and sucrose for diabetes. it explains things a lot better than I could. The reason why sugar is often so "addicting", is in fact because it is one of the things we need - and many people have been chronically deficient in it. Unfortunately, in an attempt to be "healthy", many people (including myself), forcefully restricted ourselves of foods that are tasty and are good for the soul, because we've been taught our whole life that sugar is evil. Plus, insulin resistance will increase the demand for it, because IR reduces the ability to properly utilize sugar that is taken in. Satisfying this need with dietary fat in particular will make IR worse, not better (at least, if the dietary fat is too high. Some saturated fats can be beneficial). I definitely do not advocate a zero dietary fat diet - and I doubt RP would either, except perhaps in an extreme method to get IR/diabetes under control. I agree, though, that you still need to get your vitamins and minerals in, which is why RP recommends nutritious fruits, juices, that help you get your vitamins/minerals. That's why I track on cronometer to ensure that I hit most/all of my targets for nutrition. Same with caffeine. The caveat with caffeine, though, is you have to be more careful with it than sugar. Caffeine gets a bad rap because if you over do it and/or don't use it properly (it's an easily abused tool), instead of getting beneficial metabolic effects, you instead get stress responses. If you don't intake sufficient energy with the caffeine, the caffeine will hurt you more than it helps. Sometimes the body is very unhealthy and the only way (easily, at least) to break the negative cycle is to use a little help. I see nothing wrong with that. Which actually, you have alluded to this point, so we agree on that. Also, some higher quality coffees contain great nutrition in them. As a rule I do agree with you - the less supplements one takes the better, in an ideal world. Unfortunately we live in a non ideal world where it is nearly impossible to get high quality, unadulterated foods/liquids, or live in a non-stressful environment. I myself have chosen not to take thyroid, as I definitely don't like to directly play with my hormones. Caffeine is where I draw the line (personally), but to each their own. And I do take a few other supplements that I feel I need, but I certainly try not to go crazy with them.
 
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freyasam

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I will add that I've always been a poor metabolizer of caffeine as well. The solution to the problem is actually quite simple. Have lots of calories (preferably sugar) with your caffeine. In the morning, what I have found is working quite nicely for me, is to have as much as 2 liters of OJ with my 300 mg of caffeine. And I don't have protein or fats in the morning anymore, they interfere with filling up my glucose stores in the morning. I still try to avoid caffeine at other times besides morning though. Plenty of salt is needed to counter act possible stress response too.

I'm still new to Peat but I'm personally enjoying some success on 20% protein 20% fats 60% carbs. 10-10-80 was too extreme, and 33-33-33 is way too high fat imo (high fat is what you do NOT want when trying to become insulin sensitive). Going high on protein can be useful though, if you have satiety problems, Haidut posted a study saying you may wish to consider going as high as 35% protein, but I don't wanna go higher than around 25-30% protein because I want to keep at least a 2:1 carb:protein ratio.
Yes, I react to caffeine even after consuming a LOT of calories and tons of sugar, starch, everything. I've tried for years.
 

sunraiser

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Actually, sugar is in fact one of the main premises behind restoring insulin sensitivity. If you haven't read it already, I recommend reading "Sugar Issues" by RP Glucose and sucrose for diabetes. it explains things a lot better than I could. The reason why sugar is often so "addicting", is in fact because it is one of the things we need - and many people have been chronically deficient in it. Unfortunately, in an attempt to be "healthy", many people (including myself), forcefully restricted ourselves of foods that are tasty and are good for the soul, because we've been taught our whole life that sugar is evil. Plus, insulin resistance will increase the demand for it, because IR reduces the ability to properly utilize sugar that is taken in. Satisfying this need with dietary fat in particular will make IR worse, not better (at least, if the dietary fat is too high. Some saturated fats can be beneficial). I definitely do not advocate a zero dietary fat diet - and I doubt RP would either, except perhaps in an extreme method to get IR/diabetes under control. I agree, though, that you still need to get your vitamins and minerals in, which is why RP recommends nutritious fruits, juices, that help you get your vitamins/minerals. That's why I track on cronometer to ensure that I hit most/all of my targets for nutrition. Same with caffeine. The caveat with caffeine, though, is you have to be more careful with it than sugar. Caffeine gets a bad rap because if you over do it and/or don't use it properly (it's an easily abused tool), instead of getting beneficial metabolic effects, you instead get stress responses. If you don't intake sufficient energy with the caffeine, the caffeine will hurt you more than it helps. Sometimes the body is very unhealthy and the only way (easily, at least) to break the negative cycle is to use a little help. I see nothing wrong with that. Which actually, you have alluded to this point, so we agree on that. Also, some higher quality coffees contain great nutrition in them. As a rule I do agree with you - the less supplements one takes the better, in an ideal world. Unfortunately we live in a non ideal world where it is nearly impossible to get high quality, unadulterated foods/liquids, or live in a non-stressful environment. I myself have chosen not to take thyroid, as I definitely don't like.................but

From the article....

... daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress, but larger amounts of fruit juice, honey, or other sugars can protect against increased stress, and can reverse some of the established degenerative conditions.
Refined granulated sugar is extremely pure, but it lacks all of the essential nutrients, so it should be considered as a temporary therapeutic material, or as an occasional substitute when good fruit isn't available, or when available honey is allergenic.

Sugar is temporary as it’s going to deplete you of the nutrients needed to handle its own metabolism due to being void of them.

Fructose is also an issue because large majorities of people in poor health have fatty or clogged livers, therefore they’re unable to deal with fructose. It’ll only make them worse.

With regard to what Peat mentions on sugar lowering stress, it’s true physiologically. Anything heavily dopaminergic lowers stress. Heroin also physiologically lowers stress. It’s an overt and artificial reaction as I described above. Normal foods have a much lower dopaminergic reaction that’s sustainable - they still feed the soul and should definitely still be tasty through balanced meals and flavour combos plus salt.

Exercising, but not overexerting, increases stress in the moment but lowers stress in the mid to long term. Part of this is adaptation through insulin sensitivity restoration, part is due to improved liver health and lymph system through bodily movement and core muscle group activation.
 
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sunraiser

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People in excellent health can perhaps thrive on a fructose and milk diet, if that’s what they enjoy. People will not recover from poor health on it though - there are so many examples on this forum that evidence this. Some have developed diabetes, many have had significant weight gain and worsening health.

Salty starches are a far better option and fats to taste. I don’t see how recommending this person keep dogmatically doing what is literally making them stay sick can be a good thing, regardless of what Peat says.
 

brainfog

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People in excellent health can perhaps thrive on a fructose and milk diet, if that’s what they enjoy. People will not recover from poor health on it though - there are so many examples on this forum that evidence this. Some have developed diabetes, many have had significant weight gain and worsening health.

Salty starches are a far better option and fats to taste. I don’t see how recommending this person keep dogmatically doing what is literally making them stay sick can be a good thing, regardless of what Peat says.
In one podcast he mention that one should notice a diffrence whitin hours on this diet, up to days. He says it in one of the "east west" interviews. I think many ppl dont know this.
 

Cirion

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Well, I don't see any sense in arguing about it. I've said my piece, and my own experiences certainly seem to reflect what RP says, so that's good enough for me. I don't even think we disagree that much (at least on the fact that sufficient nutrient intake is mandatory) agree 100% there. I think we just disagree on sugar vs starch.

I guess one closing comment or two I'll make, like I said before, is that if dietary fat intake is too high you certainly can and will gain unwanted weight / worsen diabetes, and I think that's the mistake that many newbies to Peat make (myself included!! I gained 20 lbs starting Peat, but my fat intake was WAY too high lol). It's also very easy to screw up some of the more intricacies in Peat'ing - such as controlling Iron intake, Calcium:Phosphorus ratios, and so forth. It's only as I'm learning the intricacies like these, that my body fat gains are starting to drop finally.

Secondly, it's unfortunate, but some people may have developed some complications / diseases that just eating Peat and "doing everything right" still may not resolve, in which case, these conditions need to be determined and resolved separately first. An especially compromised system could also preclude excluding certain foods for an indefinite period of time (dairy, and yes, even fruit in some rare cases. One member here has an actual allergy to fructose, but that's kinda rare.)
 

sunraiser

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Well, I don't see any sense in arguing about it. I've said my piece, and my own experiences certainly seem to reflect what RP says, so that's good enough for me. I don't even think we disagree that much (at least on the fact that sufficient nutrient intake is mandatory) agree 100% there. I think we just disagree on sugar vs starch.

I guess one closing comment or two I'll make, like I said before, is that if dietary fat intake is too high you certainly can and will gain unwanted weight / worsen diabetes, and I think that's the mistake that many newbies to Peat make (myself included!! I gained 20 lbs starting Peat, but my fat intake was WAY too high lol). It's also very easy to screw up some of the more intricacies in Peat'ing - such as controlling Iron intake, Calcium:Phosphorus ratios, and so forth. It's only as I'm learning the intricacies like these, that my body fat gains are starting to drop finally.

Secondly, it's unfortunate, but some people may have developed some complications / diseases that just eating Peat and "doing everything right" still may not resolve, in which case, these conditions need to be determined and resolved separately first. An especially compromised system could also preclude excluding certain foods for an indefinite period of time (dairy, and yes, even fruit in some rare cases. One member here has an actual allergy to fructose, but that's kinda rare.)

I’m glad it’s working for you. One thing I notice in nutritional spheres is to carry on dogmatically with the thing that initially worked, regardless of continued outcomes. The body’s needs are transient and based on dynamic and impossibly complex combinations of circumstance. As long as you keep that in mind and remember to listen to your body, too, I’m sure you’ll have continued health.

For me, I crave fats (sometimes even mackerel and salmon) so I eat them. I use exercise as a way to keep insulin sensitive, although I stopped for far too long after overtraining. I feel like non over the top lifting and walking (even body weight) a few times a week is far less stressful and neurotic than micromanaging macros. It also means I enjoy food more.

I hope you keep healing and finding better health :)
 
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Eric Yim

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I did a very low carb diet for a year, 4.5 years ago. Ever since then, I can't seem to store glycogen because I get hungry soon after eating, and often wake up multiple times a night with ravenous hunger.

I've been following a Peat-inspired diet for nearly a year but haven't made much progress with this issue. I eat plenty of food and have put on 30 pounds of fat since switching to this way of eating. But still feeling insatiably hungry most of the time. I have macros and micros covered (heaps of fruit, some potatoes, bone and greens broth, lots of cheese, an egg or two daily, liver weekly, meat to get enough protein since I can't drink milk, chocolate, shellfish, lots of salt). Getting plenty of sun.

I eat very frequently--don't have much choice because I get hungry so often.

What else can I do to increase glycogen storage? I feel like I'm chained to the kitchen. And any stress, whether from life stress or the stress of ovulating and menstruating every month, makes this much worse. It's also hard to get back to sleep after waking up to eat, so I typically don't get enough rest due to this issue.
Eating a lot of cheese and drinking liquid calories is the worst thing you can do for hunger.
 

Christian

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I’m glad it’s working for you. One thing I notice in nutritional spheres is to carry on dogmatically with the thing that initially worked, regardless of continued outcomes. The body’s needs are transient and based on dynamic and impossibly complex combinations of circumstance. As long as you keep that in mind and remember to listen to your body, too, I’m sure you’ll have continued health.

For me, I crave fats (sometimes even mackerel and salmon) so I eat them. I use exercise as a way to keep insulin sensitive, although I stopped for far too long after overtraining. I feel like non over the top lifting and walking (even body weight) a few times a week is far less stressful and neurotic than micromanaging macros. It also means I enjoy food more.

I hope you keep healing and finding better health :)

I agree. The body is complex. I was eating the typical peat diet for a long time while seeing no health gains. Said **** it and started listening to my body while doing cardio + weightlifting exercises. Best decision I've ever made. I lost all of my belly fat, no more "hypoglycemic" feelings. I eat huge when I workout alot and if I'm sedentary I pretty much eat around 1500 calories. I think eating the peat diet while staying sedentary is top kek. You'll most likely gain weight and get worse, unless you take **** loads of caffeine and thyroid to stimulate "exercise". I enjoy reading Peat's work but comon you're fooling yourself if you think you can achieve health by sittting down all day stuffing 3500+ calories worth of sugar.
 
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jb116

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I agree. The body is complex. I was eating the typical peat diet for a long time while seeing no health gains. Said **** it and started listening to my body while doing cardio + weightlifting exercises. Best decision I've ever made. I lost all of my belly fat, no more "hypoglycemic" feelings. I eat huge when I workout alot and if I'm sedentary I pretty much eat around 1500 calories. I think eating the peat diet while staying sedentary is top kek. You'll most likely gain weight and get worse, unless you take **** loads of caffeine and thyroid to stimulate "exercise". I enjoy reading Peat's work but comon you're fooling yourself if you think you can achieve health by sittting down all day stuffing 3500+ calories worth of sugar.
I think you'd be fooling yourself thinking that's the crux of Peat's ideas.
 

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