How bad is finasteride?

[ChemHead]

@ChemHead are you familiar with Cordyceps at all? If so do you think it might help with PFS? I've heard it increases 5AR expression. In regards to thyroid and 5AR, I notice increase in forearm/leg hair and slight increase in chest hair when using thyroid.

heard of it, but I haven't tried it. It may be worth adding... I doubt it would hurt. With regard to the thyroid increasing body hair, I've experienced the same except that I'm taking iodine. So, within a month-1.5 months of taking the iodine I get hair growth on my hands and more on forearms, etc.

 

[Medvedev]

I guess I should mention that, at this point, I would recommend a protocol for PFS that looks something like this:

- 25-50 mg DHT daily

- iodine and cofactors (selenium, ascorbic acid, niacin, riboflavin) AND/OR thyroid hormone (T4)

- some type of gonadotropin to keep the body from going into severe steroid deficiency while using DHT... so something like hCG or gonadorelin

- an androgen receptor antagonist

What about your dietary model? May it have an effect?

 

[tankasnowgod]

I'm not looking at any advertisement on Finestaride nor on many studies. Just reading lots of anecdotal reports. If you look at r/tressless, you'll see a lot of people getting regrowth with Finestaride + Minoxidil and there is picture proof of it.

What makes you think reports on Reddit are real and organic? It's one of the most visited sites on the internet. Do you really think that any hair loss forum doesn't have Merck (or it's agents/affiliates/salesmen) posting good reviews and/or success stories of their products?

And really, how good of "proof" is a pair of pictures posted in a forum? Photoshop is commonly used by hundreds of millions of people the world over, and even if a picture really did show hair regrow, can you be sure it was due to what the poster attributed it to? Like, say, could before and after hair transplant photos be used as a Finasteride claim?

I haven't seen a single pair of process pictures like that achieved with "Peaty" strategies.

Do you understand the difference between a small internet forum and one of the most widely prescribed drugs? This forum has less than 12,000 members, according to the stats on the front page. In 2019, there were 8 million prescriptions for finasteride in the US alone. This forum, in total, is less than 0.15% of those prescriptions. On top of that, this isn't a hairloss forum, and not only do members generally not post "before and after pictures" of themselves, most don't post ANY pictures. You would be included in that, unless, of course, you are a sentient statue.

 

[GenericName86]

I guess I should mention that, at this point, I would recommend a protocol for PFS that looks something like this:

- 25-50 mg DHT daily

- iodine and cofactors (selenium, ascorbic acid, niacin, riboflavin) AND/OR thyroid hormone (T4)

- some type of gonadotropin to keep the body from going into severe steroid deficiency while using DHT... so something like hCG or gonadorelin

- an androgen receptor antagonist


I know the last one may seem counterintuitive or even controversial, but androgen receptor overexpression may be playing a big role in PFS as well. Finasteride causes androgen receptor overexpression and because loss of 5AR expression is persistent in this condition, I would expect a persistence of AR overexpression. So, obviously, my logic is that temporary antagonism of AR may help stimulate 5AR expression and will likely also stimulate gonadotropin secretion.

What androgen receptor antagonist would you consider using for this protocol?

 

[ChemHead]

What androgen receptor antagonist would you consider using for this protocol?

I'm honestly not sure. The only reason I'm considering the use of an AA is because I happened to be using one within a month of recovery. I used RU58841 @ 40mg/ml twice daily for around 3 weeks. It's been something I've thought about a lot the past 3 years, wondering if it may have had any significance in the recovery. It's now something I consider as plausible for the reasons I explained in my long post. So, if progress stops and I see no further improvement by the end of next month, RU58841 is on the table. I suppose any AA would work, but that might not necessarily be true... they're all different. I suppose it's possible that RU58841 may have a higher affinity for the androgen receptor in a particular tissue over another. Perhaps ARs in the pituitary?... don't know. The important part is that finasteride causes androgen receptor overexpression. So, I'm hoping that the inverse may be true and pharmaceutically lowering AR expression might provide the right environment to stimulate 5AR expression. Once you've done this, everything is self-sustaining again... kind of like a diesel engine.

 

[Mister]

The transplants will eventually fall out again if you don't protect them against the cause of your original hair loss from what I've heard.Minox and needling might help you keep your hair for a little longer, but Finestaride seems to much more successful in the long-term (in terms of halting hair loss).

The one thing I don't buy is that androgens aren't causing hairloss btw. The more androgenic a steroid, the more shedding it induces. I don't see how anyone could deny then that decreasing AR activation in the scalp is helpful for hair loss.

No tranplanted hair does not fall out unless you went to a shitty surgeon who harvested outside of the safe donor area. But the rest of your hair will fall out, but like I said just get multiple transplants to fill out those areas in due time. But a lot of it depends on your donor zone, most should have enough hair.

Look up Zarev on youtube.

 

[Dehdly]

What good alternative do we have? Minoxidil (or any other growth stimulator) alone wont stop balding

I use Enzalutamide powder, i've been using it for 4 years topically dissolved in 95% ethanol (polish vodka) and DMSO. I've not lost any ground for the last 3 years of use and i'm getting no downstream affects from it whatsoever (run bloods multiple times with no issues).

I dose topically every other day keeping the solution in the freezer. The half life is around 6 days, but eventually you reach a steady state and the potency is more than enough to compete with DHT at the hair follicle receptor.

The only side effect (which is mild for me but can be severe for some) is off-target GABA inhibition but in my experience (at least before PFS) I never had problems with sleep, sexual function or any scary side effects people quote when using anti-androgens.

Ironically, Finasteride which is the only FDA approved medication I've ever had to tackle hair loss ****88 me up the most!

If you want more information on how to prepare it, happy to provide guidance.

 

[Dehdly]

I guess I should mention that, at this point, I would recommend a protocol for PFS that looks something like this:

- 25-50 mg DHT daily

- iodine and cofactors (selenium, ascorbic acid, niacin, riboflavin) AND/OR thyroid hormone (T4)

- some type of gonadotropin to keep the body from going into severe steroid deficiency while using DHT... so something like hCG or gonadorelin

- an androgen receptor antagonist


I know the last one may seem counterintuitive or even controversial, but androgen receptor overexpression may be playing a big role in PFS as well. Finasteride causes androgen receptor overexpression and because loss of 5AR expression is persistent in this condition, I would expect a persistence of AR overexpression. So, obviously, my logic is that temporary antagonism of AR may help stimulate 5AR expression and will likely also stimulate gonadotropin secretion.

Great suggestions here Chemhead, great research! If you don't mind me asking a few questions:

- I've heard of Stanolone, Proviron, DHT gels etc. What source of DHT would you use?
- Would you suggest using the iodine & cofactors or Thyroid hormone (t4)? Is there an advantage to using either one?
- Would you suggest taking t3/t4 or just t4?
- Would you suggest an EOD cycle of 300IU of hCG or hMG? Or maybe both? (I recovered 80% of PFS symptoms through the use of hCG a year and a half ago but have never tried hMG).
- Do you think it would be possible to combine hCG and hMG powder to form one injectable EOD rather than having two injection sites each time?
- What are your thoughts on permanently reduced testosterone output after DHT supplementation? I've heard of people who have needed TRT permanently after supplementing DHT or testosterone?

If you could answer these questions I'd be eternally grateful, before reading your PFS ideologies I was about to start a course of Etifoxine to boost 5AR neurosteroids however I feel like your theory makes more sense.

Thanks again for your hard work and effort.

 

[milkboi]

I use Enzalutamide powder, i've been using it for 4 years topically dissolved in 95% ethanol (polish vodka) and DMSO. I've not lost any ground for the last 3 years of use and i'm getting no downstream affects from it whatsoever (run bloods multiple times with no issues).

I dose topically every other day keeping the solution in the freezer. The half life is around 6 days, but eventually you reach a steady state and the potency is more than enough to compete with DHT at the hair follicle receptor.

The only side effect (which is mild for me but can be severe for some) is off-target GABA inhibition but in my experience (at least before PFS) I never had problems with sleep, sexual function or any scary side effects people quote when using anti-androgens.

Ironically, Finasteride which is the only FDA approved medication I've ever had to tackle hair loss ****88 me up the most!

If you want more information on how to prepare it, happy to provide guidance.

Sounds amazing, thanks for the info. I just don't know how it wouldn't go system if you use DMSO?

I'm planning to use RU58841 for a few months soon

 

[ChemHead]

Great suggestions here Chemhead, great research! If you don't mind me asking a few questions:

- I've heard of Stanolone, Proviron, DHT gels etc. What source of DHT would you use?
- Would you suggest using the iodine & cofactors or Thyroid hormone (t4)? Is there an advantage to using either one?
- Would you suggest taking t3/t4 or just t4?
- Would you suggest an EOD cycle of 300IU of hCG or hMG? Or maybe both? (I recovered 80% of PFS symptoms through the use of hCG a year and a half ago but have never tried hMG).
- Do you think it would be possible to combine hCG and hMG powder to form one injectable EOD rather than having two injection sites each time?
- What are your thoughts on permanently reduced testosterone output after DHT supplementation? I've heard of people who have needed TRT permanently after supplementing DHT or testosterone?

If you could answer these questions I'd be eternally grateful, before reading your PFS ideologies I was about to start a course of Etifoxine to boost 5AR neurosteroids however I feel like your theory makes more sense.

Thanks again for your hard work and effort.

I would use DHT and not anything else. It's important that you use actual DHT because the DHT-AR complex will cause a unique set of genes to be expressed. It's possible that using something like Proviron will have some overlap in terms of the genes expressed when it binds AR, but it won't be the same as DHT and there's no guarantee that the genes you need to be expressed will actually be expressed if you're using a steroid that your body doesn't naturally produce.

I'm unsure about advantages of iodine vs. just using T4. However, I tend to think that iodine and cofactors is a better path if you don't already have some kind of issue with thyroid output of THs. If you can make things work at the most rudimentary level, then all of the feedback loops involved in the whole process of thyroid hormone stimulation are satisfied, whereas supplementing T4 will bypass a lot of that. There's also a lot we just don't understand yet regarding extrathyroidal iodine and it's looking like it plays a much bigger role than just being involved in thyroid hormone synthesis.

I can't say much about the hCG or hMG cycle. Tbh, it's not even necessary. It's really just something to help cope with the shutdown that weeks or months of DHT will cause on endogenous steroidogenesis.

With regard to permanently reduced testosterone output, I've never experienced it, but I think if you are already negatively affected by finasteride, your total androgen output is already severely affected. I don't think it's anything to worry about. After taking the DHT, you'll have a period of time (maybe a 1-3 weeks, depending on the length of time you took the DHT) where your regulatory axes will readjust. Nothing to really worry about unless you're abusing the DHT by injecting half a gram or whatever. The purpose of the DHT is to simply be stimulatory in reestablishing 5AR expression as well as proper expression of genes related to thyroid hormone/receptor function.

 

[Dehdly]

I would use DHT and not anything else. It's important that you use actual DHT because the DHT-AR complex will cause a unique set of genes to be expressed. It's possible that using something like Proviron will have some overlap in terms of the genes expressed when it binds AR, but it won't be the same as DHT and there's no guarantee that the genes you need to be expressed will actually be expressed if you're using a steroid that your body doesn't naturally produce.

I'm unsure about advantages of iodine vs. just using T4. However, I tend to think that iodine and cofactors is a better path if you don't already have some kind of issue with thyroid output of THs. If you can make things work at the most rudimentary level, then all of the feedback loops involved in the whole process of thyroid hormone stimulation are satisfied, whereas supplementing T4 will bypass a lot of that. There's also a lot we just don't understand yet regarding extrathyroidal iodine and it's looking like it plays a much bigger role than just being involved in thyroid hormone synthesis.

I can't say much about the hCG or hMG cycle. Tbh, it's not even necessary. It's really just something to help cope with the shutdown that weeks or months of DHT will cause on endogenous steroidogenesis.

With regard to permanently reduced testosterone output, I've never experienced it, but I think if you are already negatively affected by finasteride, your total androgen output is already severely affected. I don't think it's anything to worry about. After taking the DHT, you'll have a period of time (maybe a 1-3 weeks, depending on the length of time you took the DHT) where your regulatory axes will readjust. Nothing to really worry about unless you're abusing the DHT by injecting half a gram or whatever. The purpose of the DHT is to simply be stimulatory in reestablishing 5AR expression as well as proper expression of genes related to thyroid hormone/receptor function.

Thanks for such a detailed response there Chemhead.

DHT
I've just had a look online at pure DHT sources but i'm finding extremely expensive prices, namely - Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) | ≥99%(HPLC) | Selleck | Androgen Receptor agonist

This website seems to quote pure DHT at $157 for 25mg which based on your previous message is only enough to cover the lower end of the band (25-50mg) for one day! I must have this wrong, surely?

Thyroid
You mention using the Iodine and cofactors is the easiest way, i'm going to look into the most efficient way to supplement these cofactors, but first I think there are two important bits of information, firstly:
- Are the cofactors you've labelled (selenium, ascorbic acid, niacin, riboflavin) representative of an exhaustive list or are there others to consider?
- Regarding Niacin are we talking 'no-flush' or 'flush'?
- What are the recommended dosages for these cofactors? Some of these may have a dose-dependant effect and so if there's no dosage guidance here then maybe keeping things simple and going for just T4 would be safer?
- Why not T3 AND T4, why only just T4? You'll have to forgive my ignorance, i'm not clued up on Thyroid hormones.

hCG & hMG
I definitely think i'm going to get on one of these, I responded really well to hCG so I feel safe incorporating it into the stack at 300IU every third day.

Testosterone Output
You mention 'After taking the DHT, you'll have a period of time (maybe a 1-3 weeks, depending on the length of time you took the DHT) where your regulatory axes will readjust'.
My questions here are:
- How long should you cycle DHT given the 25-50mg range alongside hCG supplementation? If I wave a finger in the air i'd guess at maybe a month - 2 months or is it based on when you feel better?
- Presuming im not bankrupted by the cost of DHT - would it be right to assume DHT powder can be dissolved in bacteriostatic water just like hCG and injected anywhere on the body?

 

[Dehdly]

Sounds amazing, thanks for the info. I just don't know how it wouldn't go system if you use DMSO?

I'm planning to use RU58841 for a few months soon

I used RU58841 for a while, problem with it is the short half life so you'd have to apply it everyday and the significantly lower androgen receptor affinity. It would dissolve easily in ethanol and was significantly cheaper but it just didn't do the job. Regarding the use of DMSO, I don't doubt some of it goes systemic but it clearly isn't affecting me in a negative way.

My advice would be to look up the difference between first and second generation anti-androgens, the use of first-gen antiandrogens should be avoided as they lose potency as the AR receptor becomes over expressed, this doesnt happen with 2nd generation AAs.

The first-generation antiandrogens bicalutamide, nilutamide, or flutamide exclusively target AR translocation to the nucleus and prevent downstream signalling, while second-generation antiandrogens enzalutamide, apalutamide and darolutamide improve upon this mechanism.

Darolutamide is extremely expensive with a 24 hour half life, I've tried it and didn't see any advantages using it over Enzalutamide. Apalutamide is similar to Enzalutamide however its slightly cost prohibitive given what Enzalutamide already does - remember a lot of these medications are used for CRPC via oral systemic medications so some of the downfalls of Enzalutamide like hepatoxicity aren't really relevant when dosing topically.

 

[Vins7]

What about massages and what Rob English proposes?
Could that and dietary changes have a good long-term outcome?

 

[Mister]

@ChemHead What DHT product do you advise?

 

[ChemHead]

DHT
I've just had a look online at pure DHT sources but i'm finding extremely expensive prices, namely - Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) | ≥99%(HPLC) | Selleck | Androgen Receptor agonist

Don't try to purchase steroids from a chemical supplier like Selleck or Sigma Aldrich, etc. Find a manufacturer of steroids in China and purchase from there. Look on Alibaba, AliExpress, or get into contact with a lab directly from China. If you have trouble finding a source, look or ask around on some bodybuilding forums or steroid forums. Alternatively, you might also start by asking local compounding pharmacies if they have DHT and then get a script for that. Otherwise, buy from China. You could probably get 100 g for $1000 if I had to guess (possibly less? idk i haven't made any steroid purchases for quite awhile so I don't know how prices are currently) and you would never even need that much.

- Are the cofactors you've labelled (selenium, ascorbic acid, niacin, riboflavin) representative of an exhaustive list or are there others to consider?
- Regarding Niacin are we talking 'no-flush' or 'flush'?
- What are the recommended dosages for these cofactors? Some of these may have a dose-dependant effect and so if there's no dosage guidance here then maybe keeping things simple and going for just T4 would be safer?
- Why not T3 AND T4, why only just T4? You'll have to forgive my ignorance, i'm not clued up on Thyroid hormones.

This is definitely not an exhaustive list. There are so many minerals/vitamins that, if insufficient in, can cause thyroid or thyroid hormone/receptor function. Iron and vitamin A are also very important in thyroid/thyroid hormone function.

Use niacin. Nicotinic acid. If there's some slow release formula to prevent the flush, I suppose that's ok, too.

I don't think direct exogenous supplementation of any steroid or hormone is safer or more ideal then getting it right with nutrition, if possible. That's why I've chosen to suffer and figure things out rather than just resort to going on hormone replacement therapy. Your body working properly and producing its own hormones is always going to be better, but, for some people, there's no other choice but some form of HRT because they have irreparable damage in thyroid, gonads, hypothalamus/pituitary, etc.

The reason I didn't mention T3 is because it was never associated with the restoration of 5AR expression in the scientific publications that I read. It was specifically T4.

- How long should you cycle DHT given the 25-50mg range alongside hCG supplementation? If I wave a finger in the air i'd guess at maybe a month - 2 months or is it based on when you feel better?
- Presuming im not bankrupted by the cost of DHT - would it be right to assume DHT powder can be dissolved in bacteriostatic water just like hCG and injected anywhere on the body?

It's probably best to use the DHT for at least 3 weeks. Ideally somewhere between 4-8 weeks. The goal is to allow areas of the brain, as well as gonads, to see regular concentrations of DHT so that androgen receptor expression will mellow out as I suspect that persistent 5AR insufficiency will cause AR overexpression. Allowing these parts of the body to see regular concentration of DHT will help reestablish both thyroid receptor beta expression as well as 5AR expression. From my research, 5AR and thyroid/TH function are closely entangled and if the feedback loops regulating 5AR expression are cut off, you need some training wheels (DHT and thyroid support) for awhile to help reestablish them.

You will not feel better while taking DHT. However, if you're taking Gonadorelin or hCG/hMG while taking DHT, you won't feel worse either. You feel better after you've come of DHT and the gonadotropins and you go through the recovery of the regulatory axes. After that handoff is made... where you stop the DHT and gonadotropins and allow your body to begin producing its own... this is when things should begin to improve if you've managed to reestablish 5AR expression. 5AR expression and thyroid function are like a nuclear reactor or a diesel engine. You need some energy and some input and attention to get them kinetic, but, once they're moving, they just keep going on their own.

DHT cannot be dissolved in bacteriostatic water. You either have to dissolve in sterile oil for IM injection or you can dissolve it in ethanol and maybe a little DMSO and apply it transdermally. If you really want to, you can also buy some carbomer, triethanolamine, and ethanol and make a hydroalcoholic gel.

If you go the IM injection route, pin intramuscularly twice a day. If you go transdermal route, base your doses on the assumption that around only 30-40% absorption will occur transdermally. For transdermal, apply 3-4x daily (maybe spread out ever 4 hours) and apply to penile and scrotal tissue as this is the thinnest skin on the body.

 

[ChemHead]

@ChemHead What DHT product do you advise?

I have a stash of Andractim that I used, but afaik Andractim isn't made anymore. Whatever route you go, whether it's sourcing from China or finding a compounding pharmacy that can supply the steroid, make sure that you're using DHT and not some synthetic 5a-reduced steroid.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I have a stash of Andractim that I used, but afaik Andractim isn't made anymore. Whatever route you go, whether it's sourcing from China or finding a compounding pharmacy that can supply the steroid, make sure that you're using DHT and not some synthetic 5a-reduced steroid.

11-keto DHT - Adrenosterone Derivative For Lab/R&D Use

As promised, I am releasing a steroid that may be of interest to some people on the forum. It is a variation of the well-known steroid DHT that Peat has written about and I have also posted quite a few studies on. The steroid belongs to the group of the so-called keto-steroids and AFAIK this is...

raypeatforum.com

What do you think of 11-keto DHT ?

I've been trying it, hard to say much. It made me shed some water weight, completely lose libido for almost a week, then today I had a big spurt in libido, some ball ache at doses of 30-40 mg a day, but haven't used regular DHT so can't compare.

 

[Mister]

I have a stash of Andractim that I used, but afaik Andractim isn't made anymore. Whatever route you go, whether it's sourcing from China or finding a compounding pharmacy that can supply the steroid, make sure that you're using DHT and not some synthetic 5a-reduced steroid.

So you don't advise proviron then?

It has recovered or is part of many PFS recoveries though.

 

[ChemHead]

So you don't advise proviron then?

It has recovered or is part of many PFS recoveries though.

I don't recommend proviron because it isn't DHT and there's no guarantee that it will cause the expression of genes necessary to reestablish 5AR expression. If there were scientific or clinical literature out there suggesting that proviron causes in upregulation in thyroid receptor beta or alterations in deiodinase expression, then I'd be more inclined to say that it might be ok to use proviron. It's really important to use what the body itself uses. If proviron is used and it doesn't cause the transcription of some critical genes that are involved in the regulation of 5AR expression or thyroid/TR function, then it won't work and you won't know exactly why. DHT, however, is exactly what's physiologically "expected".

 

[Dehdly]

Don't try to purchase steroids from a chemical supplier like Selleck or Sigma Aldrich, etc. Find a manufacturer of steroids in China and purchase from there. Look on Alibaba, AliExpress, or get into contact with a lab directly from China. If you have trouble finding a source, look or ask around on some bodybuilding forums or steroid forums. Alternatively, you might also start by asking local compounding pharmacies if they have DHT and then get a script for that. Otherwise, buy from China. You could probably get 100 g for $1000 if I had to guess (possibly less? idk i haven't made any steroid purchases for quite awhile so I don't know how prices are currently) and you would never even need that much.



This is definitely not an exhaustive list. There are so many minerals/vitamins that, if insufficient in, can cause thyroid or thyroid hormone/receptor function. Iron and vitamin A are also very important in thyroid/thyroid hormone function.

Use niacin. Nicotinic acid. If there's some slow release formula to prevent the flush, I suppose that's ok, too.

I don't think direct exogenous supplementation of any steroid or hormone is safer or more ideal then getting it right with nutrition, if possible. That's why I've chosen to suffer and figure things out rather than just resort to going on hormone replacement therapy. Your body working properly and producing its own hormones is always going to be better, but, for some people, there's no other choice but some form of HRT because they have irreparable damage in thyroid, gonads, hypothalamus/pituitary, etc.

The reason I didn't mention T3 is because it was never associated with the restoration of 5AR expression in the scientific publications that I read. It was specifically T4.



It's probably best to use the DHT for at least 3 weeks. Ideally somewhere between 4-8 weeks. The goal is to allow areas of the brain, as well as gonads, to see regular concentrations of DHT so that androgen receptor expression will mellow out as I suspect that persistent 5AR insufficiency will cause AR overexpression. Allowing these parts of the body to see regular concentration of DHT will help reestablish both thyroid receptor beta expression as well as 5AR expression. From my research, 5AR and thyroid/TH function are closely entangled and if the feedback loops regulating 5AR expression are cut off, you need some training wheels (DHT and thyroid support) for awhile to help reestablish them.

You will not feel better while taking DHT. However, if you're taking Gonadorelin or hCG/hMG while taking DHT, you won't feel worse either. You feel better after you've come of DHT and the gonadotropins and you go through the recovery of the regulatory axes. After that handoff is made... where you stop the DHT and gonadotropins and allow your body to begin producing its own... this is when things should begin to improve if you've managed to reestablish 5AR expression. 5AR expression and thyroid function are like a nuclear reactor or a diesel engine. You need some energy and some input and attention to get them kinetic, but, once they're moving, they just keep going on their own.

DHT cannot be dissolved in bacteriostatic water. You either have to dissolve in sterile oil for IM injection or you can dissolve it in ethanol and maybe a little DMSO and apply it transdermally. If you really want to, you can also buy some carbomer, triethanolamine, and ethanol and make a hydroalcoholic gel.

If you go the IM injection route, pin intramuscularly twice a day. If you go transdermal route, base your doses on the assumption that around only 30-40% absorption will occur transdermally. For transdermal, apply 3-4x daily (maybe spread out ever 4 hours) and apply to penile and scrotal tissue as this is the thinnest skin on the body.

Thanks for this ChemHead, i've just contacted my Alibaba contact and they have confirmed that DHT is in their 'doping list' and therefore they don't sell it. They mention that under normal circumstances, the import of these hormone products requires an import qualification certificate. The Alibaba contact then asked another supplier and they also said that if you don't have the certificate they wont provide it. I might still try though .. I think going on Bodybuilding forums is a good idea to locate a reasonably priced source.

Regarding dosage and delivery mechanisms, I reckon i'd go for the transdermal mechanism. What i'm worried about most here is having dry clean skin throughout the day for transdermal application. I'm sure I don't need to emphasise that the scrotum and penile tissue can become sweaty throughout the day, could this impede the movement of any applicants through it? I'm currently using Pansterone and Androsterone transdermally on scrotal tissue, it seems manageable if a small number of drops are used.

Presuming 25-50mg of DHT are to be applied each day with a transdermal delivery efficiency of 30-40% then use of between 65-130mg per day would need to be used. Assuming a dosage split of 4 times per day we're left with between 16 - 33mg per dose. From here, how much is dosed per drop depends on the size of the dropper and the concentration of the solution.

Caveat: This math is likely wrong, I've just gone on intuition and what I can find on google - I work with computer networks not chemicals . Anyone who can verify would be greatly appreciated.

For a 10ml dropper bottle producing drops of average size 0.05ml you'd get roughly 200 drops (not every drop is the same size). Therefore to get 16mg per drop you'd want 3.2g per bottle (200*16mg), and for 33mg per drop you'd want 6.6g per bottle (200*33mg). The problem here is DHT has a solubility in pure DMSO of 50-58mg/mL (differs depending on the site you go on).

The way i'm understanding this is, for each millilitre of DMSO used, it can dissolve 58mg of DHT. Considering our 10ml dropper bottle example above, this means that 10ml (of pure DMSO) can only dissolve 580mg of DHT which means each drop would contain 2.9mg of DHT meaning you'd need 12 drops 4 times a day for a 33mg dose, and 6 drops for 16mg per dose. The only feasible option here is the 16mg option.

Thing is, I've been dissolving Enzalutamide in DMSO for a while now, specifically, 2.5g in 10ml and yet its got a solubility in DMSO of 92mg/ml so surely it should only manage to dissolve 920mg not 2500mg - really need an explanation on this as it doesn't make sense at all.

Anyways, progressing with this track of thought, it seems as though we need a better solvent as we can't get the required concentrations from a dropper bottle using DMSO. This seems unlikely as everyone and their mum uses DMSO as a solvent but it doesn't seem feasible if we're looking to dose 25-50mg transdermally via DMSO at a DHT solubility of 58 mg/ml.