Hot Or Cold Coffee?

[Cirion]

Found this quote from RP. Confused by the jargon.

"The excess excitation that produces nitric oxide and lactic acid lowers the energy production of vascular cells, possibly enough to lower their contractile ability (Geng, et al., 1992), causing vasodilation. When flushing is caused by a mismatch between energy supply and energy demand, caffeine can decrease the vasodilation (Eikvar & Kirkebøen, 1998), but when vasodilation is caused more physiologically by carbon dioxide, caffeine doesn't have that effect (Meno, et al., 2005). In a study in which drinking hot water or coffee was compared with drinking room-temperature coffee or caffeine, it was found that the hot liquids caused flushing, but cool coffee and caffeine didn't.Caffeine increases cells' energy efficiency, and by opposing the effects of adenosine (secreted by cells that are stressed and energy-depleted), it can inhibit vasodilation, angioneogenesis (Merighi, et al., 2007; Ryzhov, et al., 2007), and fibrosis (Chan, et al., 2006). "

Rosacea, inflammation, and aging: The inefficiency of stress

Does this mean we should have hot, or cold coffee then?? All this jargon is going a bit over my head... I read and re-read the paragraph but can't determine if this flushing is a good or bad thing?

Also one thing I have never been able to reconcile is the fact that while caffeine does oppose the effects of adenosine, it also causes the body to create MORE adenosine receptors - which is why one needs more caffeine to feel normal once you start drinking coffee... I argue that so called caffeine "tolerance" is simply the phenomenon of more adenosine receptors therefore needing more caffeine to get the same effect.

I can not count how many times at this point I have brought back coffee and then removed it. It just seems like a net negative to me. If you "need" caffeine, that's ironically when it seems to have the most negative effect on me. Over the weekend I just let myself sleep like 12 hr then I feel good waking up + don't "need" caffeine to wake up.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Found this quote from RP. Confused by the jargon.



Rosacea, inflammation, and aging: The inefficiency of stress

Does this mean we should have hot, or cold coffee then?? All this jargon is going a bit over my head... I read and re-read the paragraph but can't determine if this flushing is a good or bad thing?

Also one thing I have never been able to reconcile is the fact that while caffeine does oppose the effects of adenosine, it also causes the body to create MORE adenosine receptors - which is why one needs more caffeine to feel normal once you start drinking coffee... I argue that so called caffeine "tolerance" is simply the phenomenon of more adenosine receptors therefore needing more caffeine to get the same effect.

I can not count how many times at this point I have brought back coffee and then removed it. It just seems like a net negative to me. If you "need" caffeine, that's ironically when it seems to have the most negative effect on me. Over the weekend I just let myself sleep like 12 hr then I feel good waking up + don't "need" caffeine to wake up.

My understanding would be that if the flush caused by drinking hot liquids were bad, then caffeine would prevent it from happening. Also, regarding the adenosine receptors, I remember @haidut saying that it's better to have more receptors and less of the substance that stimulates the receptors, since, even though you would be more sensitive to that substance, the total amount of it would be lowers, and considering that Ray says that substances don't need receptors to have an effect on the body, less adenosine is better, even with more receptors.

Does any source of caffeine have the same effect on you? Tea, coke, caffeine pills, etc.? I also don't react well to coffee, but Coke and caffeine pills work really well for me.

 

[Cirion]

My understanding would be that if the flush caused by drinking hot liquids were bad, then caffeine would prevent it from happening. Also, regarding the adenosine receptors, I remember @haidut saying that it's better to have more receptors and less of the substance that stimulates the receptors, since, even though you would be more sensitive to that substance, the total amount of it would be lowers, and considering that Ray says that substances don't need receptors to have an effect on the body, less adenosine is better, even with more receptors.

Does any source of caffeine have the same effect on you? Tea, coke, caffeine pills, etc.? I also don't react well to coffee, but Coke and caffeine pills work really well for me.

How can you be sure you get less overall adenosine even with more receptors? This has never been the case for me.

Yes all forms of caffeine seem to have a similar negative effect although different in some ways. I used to use caffeinated chewing gum for a while, although I will say the gum seems a little less reactive to me in a negative way because the "chewing" motion tends to lower cortisol. I don't like the pills. They make me feel kind of spacey, is the best way to describe it, "off" in a strange sort of way.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

How can you be sure you get less overall adenosine even with more receptors? This has never been the case for me.

Yes all forms of caffeine seem to have a similar negative effect although different in some ways. I used to use caffeinated chewing gum for a while, although I will say the gum seems a little less reactive to me in a negative way because the "chewing" motion tends to lower cortisol. I don't like the pills. They make me feel kind of spacey, is the best way to describe it, "off" in a strange sort of way.

I was following the logic of less serotonin=more serotonin receptors, but I'm not sure if that is exactly what happens with regards to adenosine. I hope other people can chime in for more views.

So maybe it's better to not use caffeine for now. You may tolerate it better in the future.