Horrible bounding pulse only helped by taking ibuprofen

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Electrisio

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For me it actually makes it better. Lifting, however, is disastrous. Especially CNS heavy stuff like squat or deadlift.
Lifting is disastrous for me too. Makes it very bad for a couple days after, presumably whilst I am recovering. A huge shame, bodybuilding has been the hobby of my life, but I basically can't do it now without risking bad pulse/sleep issues.
 
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Electrisio

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Now that you mention this a slight reduction of my symptoms might have coincided with a dietary change which includes having 6 eggs, a liter of low fat goat milk and 300 grams of lean beef daily. This is a lot of choline. I used to eat a low fat starch based and it worked for me well until stress ****88 me up, but now this dietary change seems to have done something at least.
I would have more eggs, but the vitamin D in them causes me issues when I start to have them on consecutive days. Could try some beef though.
 

redsun

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I would have more eggs, but the vitamin D in them causes me issues when I start to have them on consecutive days. Could try some beef though.
The amount of vitamin D in eggs is miniscule. Though I suppose due to TRT you could be become hypersensitive to anything. You can try a pure choline supplement that way there is no other things interacting or making you worse and see how you react to that.

Meat is the next best source of choline but even eating a lot its not a great source. Its hard to get a higher amount of choline in the diet without eggs even if you eat a lot of meat.
 
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Electrisio

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The amount of vitamin D in eggs is miniscule. Though I suppose due to TRT you could be become hypersensitive to anything. You can try a pure choline supplement that way there is no other things interacting or making you worse and see how you react to that.
I had the hypersensitivity before TRT. 100iu in supplement form causes the palpition/pulse in me, it's crazy. Something about the oral form of D3 causes chaos in my body. I even made a threat about it a while back on here :Vitamin D hypersensitivity.
I guess nothing to lose by taking choline, although a little scared as I saw some people with palpitations from it.
 
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You probably have low acetylcholine activity. Acetylcholine is needed to slow down the heart rate and opposes adrenergic activity which increases heart rate and contractile force.

Androgens can increase adrenergic activity, partially due to the androgens themselves but also conversion into DHT and estrogen have their own effects as well.

I would try to figure out how much choline you get daily in your diet. Likely you don't get that much. I would work your way up to 800mg to 1g+ of choline daily. This should reduce heart rate and the heavy pulse.

Especially eggs but also meat are the best sources of choline. So you need to substantially increase the intake of these foods. Maybe you will still be able to stay on TRT if the extra choline works.

im having this pulsating feeling that look fine tremors. Will look if food source choline can correct it.
 

Hypermnesia

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I had the hypersensitivity before TRT. 100iu in supplement form causes the palpition/pulse in me, it's crazy. Something about the oral form of D3 causes chaos in my body. I even made a threat about it a while back on here :Vitamin D hypersensitivity.
I guess nothing to lose by taking choline, although a little scared as I saw some people with palpitations from it.
Maybe you need more real retinol have you tried consuming liver?
 

redsun

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I had the hypersensitivity before TRT. 100iu in supplement form causes the palpition/pulse in me, it's crazy. Something about the oral form of D3 causes chaos in my body. I even made a threat about it a while back on here :Vitamin D hypersensitivity.
I guess nothing to lose by taking choline, although a little scared as I saw some people with palpitations from it.
Choline should not make your issue worse and probably will improve it. Especially because as I understand it you avoid eggs so likely choline intake is quite low and you probably don't eat a ton of meat which could partially compensate.

im having this pulsating feeling that look fine tremors. Will look if food source choline can correct it.
Let us know if it improves from getting more choline in your diet.
 

InChristAlone

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Cholinergic foods are a disaster for my mental health. I'm on cypro which is anticholinergic and healing my mental health problem. I am having more pounding heart with it, but taking a nap cures it for that day. I do think it has to do with POTS as I have lowish blood pressure. The most healing thing you can do is stop researching health and nutrition, accept that your body is doing this and rest, sleep and eat more. It's basically acceptance and commitment therapy. I mostly cured it last time by doing this. The absolute worst thing for heart issues is mental stress.
 

redsun

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Cholinergic foods are a disaster for my mental health. I'm on cypro which is anticholinergic and healing my mental health problem. I am having more pounding heart with it, but taking a nap cures it for that day. I do think it has to do with POTS as I have lowish blood pressure. The most healing thing you can do is stop researching health and nutrition, accept that your body is doing this and rest, sleep and eat more. It's basically acceptance and commitment therapy. I mostly cured it last time by doing this. The absolute worst thing for heart issues is mental stress.
Yeh well thats kind of the point though, OP cant get proper sleep because of the pulsing heart beat and had this for 5 years. So he can't truly rest until this gets fixed because without even decent sleep recovery is impossible imo.

Cypro only antagonizes muscarine receptors, but doesnt touch nicotinic receptors. The M2 receptor slows heart rate, so antagonizing it could make heart pounding worse. I dont think the antimuscarinic effect is what is helping. likely the serotonin antagonism from cypro is more likely the reason it improves mental health.

Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors are used to treat POTS by the way.
 

InChristAlone

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Yeh well thats kind of the point though, OP cant get proper sleep because of the pulsing heart beat and had this for 5 years. So he can't truly rest until this gets fixed because without even decent sleep recovery is impossible imo.

Cypro only antagonizes muscarine receptors, but doesnt touch nicotinic receptors. The M2 receptor slows heart rate, so antagonizing it could make heart pounding worse. I dont think the antimuscarinic effect is what is helping. likely the serotonin antagonism from cypro is more likely the reason it improves mental health.

Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors are used to treat POTS by the way.
Yeah I agree without good sleep recovery is very very slow if at all. I just don't think messing with choline is a fix, but he can try it out.

This is what could happen on those drugs: "Adverse events are consistent with the cholinergic actions of the drug, and include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, anorexia, headache, syncope, abdominal pain and dizziness" Doesn't sound like a cure for POTS. And I agree with Peat that cholinergic things suck for the brain, but I have heard many people using thiamine with success. It didn't help me at all other than to increase my anxiety.

I do think TRT is a disaster for this.
 

redsun

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Yeah I agree without good sleep recovery is very very slow if at all. I just don't think messing with choline is a fix, but he can try it out.

This is what could happen on those drugs: "Adverse events are consistent with the cholinergic actions of the drug, and include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, anorexia, headache, syncope, abdominal pain and dizziness" Doesn't sound like a cure for POTS. And I agree with Peat that cholinergic things suck for the brain, but I have heard many people using thiamine with success. It didn't help me at all other than to increase my anxiety.

I do think TRT is a disaster for this.
It does work for the POTS, doesn't mean it doesn't have side effects. Very few medications have no side effects and of course there is a better way to go about it. Increasing the availability of the two components of acetylcholine would likely be effective with little to no side effects. B-vitamins to increase acetyl-CoA synthesis, and increased choline intake via diet and supplementation.

I guess Peat is completely unaware of the nootropic community where racetams are recommended and prioritized, which mainly work through acetylcholine and sometimes glutamate receptors, to enhance cognition, memory, verbal fluency, creativity, and relieve anxiety.
 

InChristAlone

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It does work for the POTS, doesn't mean it doesn't have side effects. Very few medications have no side effects and of course there is a better way to go about it. Increasing the availability of the two components of acetylcholine would likely be effective with little to no side effects. B-vitamins to increase acetyl-CoA synthesis, and increased choline intake via diet and supplementation.

I guess Peat is completely unaware of the nootropic community where racetams are recommended and prioritized, which mainly work through acetylcholine and sometimes glutamate receptors, to enhance cognition, memory, verbal fluency, creativity, and relieve anxiety.
I guess coffee fulfills that role for him. Which indeed it is cholinergic and something I don't tolerate much of and most people with panic attacks don't tolerate much of. But yes cypro will have side effects if you stay on it like spaciness. Which for me feels better than where I was at with racing mind and inability to relax. I could have written an entire book in a matter of days with the mental focus I had. I could focus on one thing for hours and hours and hours without any boredom at all because I was in a state of survival mode. Focus sucks if it's not for creativity.
 

redsun

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I guess coffee fulfills that role for him. Which indeed it is cholinergic and something I don't tolerate much of and most people with panic attacks don't tolerate much of. But yes cypro will have side effects if you stay on it like spaciness. Which for me feels better than where I was at with racing mind and inability to relax. I could have written an entire book in a matter of days with the mental focus I had. I could focus on one thing for hours and hours and hours without any boredom at all because I was in a state of survival mode. Focus sucks if it's not for creativity.
It has some direct effects as well as the eventual caffeine tolerance indirectly leads to significant increase in muscarinic and nicotinic receptors in the brain:


"The densities of cortical β1 and cerebellar β2 adrenergic receptors are reduced by ca. 25%, while the densities of cortical α1 and α2 adrenergic receptors are not significantly altered. Densities of striatal D1 and D2 dopaminergic receptors are unaltered. The densities of cortical 5 HT1 and 5 HT2 serotonergic receptors are increased by 26–30%. Densities of cortical muscarinic and nicotinic receptors are increased by 40–50%. The density of cortical benzodiazepine-binding sites associated with GABAA receptors is increased by 65%, and the affinity appears slightly decreased. "

I used to be in a very similar state actually and I remember it was rough oftentimes unbearable. Hope you find long-lasting improvement.
 

InChristAlone

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It has some direct effects as well as the eventual caffeine tolerance indirectly leads to significant increase in muscarinic and nicotinic receptors in the brain:


"The densities of cortical β1 and cerebellar β2 adrenergic receptors are reduced by ca. 25%, while the densities of cortical α1 and α2 adrenergic receptors are not significantly altered. Densities of striatal D1 and D2 dopaminergic receptors are unaltered. The densities of cortical 5 HT1 and 5 HT2 serotonergic receptors are increased by 26–30%. Densities of cortical muscarinic and nicotinic receptors are increased by 40–50%. The density of cortical benzodiazepine-binding sites associated with GABAA receptors is increased by 65%, and the affinity appears slightly decreased. "

I used to be in a very similar state actually and I remember it was rough oftentimes unbearable. Hope you find long-lasting improvement.
Thanks redsun. I am finding a lot of relief just not researching about my health haha.
 

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Could it really be acetylcholine related? OP have you ever tried something like alpha gpc or huperzine a?
 
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Electrisio

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Could it really be acetylcholine related? OP have you ever tried something like alpha gpc or huperzine a?
Haven't taken either of those but tried a choline supplement after making this thread. It made it worse, as most supplements do.

Tbh I feel like something I might have taken supplement or drug-wise in the past has damaged my cardiovascular system.
 
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Electrisio

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TRT is making my symptoms worse, I believe it could be due to its vasodilatory effect and increase endothelial Nitric Oxide, anyone had experience blocking that?
 
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Electrisio

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TRT is making my symptoms worse, I believe it could be due to its vasodilatory effect and increase endothelial Nitric Oxide, anyone had experience blocking that?
So I tried L-lysine which is eNOS inhibitory. It reduced some aspects of the pulse sensation, in a manner that I would expect from blocking vasodilation. However, in my head, I can still feel the oomph of the pulse which I believe is due to high cardiac output/blood volume per stroke.
 
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