Horny Goat Weed (or other PDE5 inhibitors) - Can they actually cause low libido if used chronically?

Blue Water

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Has anyone experienced lower libido and worse erectile function upon cessation of Horny Goat weed? I was taking a tincture off and on for a month or two and it really helped with blood flow and erectile function, but now that I'm off of it it feels like my libido and erectile function is worse than it was before going on the supplement. I'm wondering if it maybe down regulated some receptors. Has anyone had a similar experience (either with HGW or similar PDE5 inhibitors like Cialis, viagra, etc.)?
 

Hans

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Has anyone experienced lower libido and worse erectile function upon cessation of Horny Goat weed? I was taking a tincture off and on for a month or two and it really helped with blood flow and erectile function, but now that I'm off of it it feels like my libido and erectile function is worse than it was before going on the supplement. I'm wondering if it maybe down regulated some receptors. Has anyone had a similar experience (either with HGW or similar PDE5 inhibitors like Cialis, viagra, etc.)?
It can happen, but it depends on your current state of health. Were things staying the same in general or declining slowly month after month before the supp? When you stop you realize your new low baseline, which would have happened without the supp.
Are you focusing on diet and lifestyle things as well to improve your erectile function?
 

TheSir

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Let me share a few helpful platitudes:

What goes up must come down.
Every action has an opposite reaction.
There is no free lunch.

This is to say that when using exogenous means of achieving a specific metabolic outcome, you are conditioning the relevant metabolic processes to become dependent on (or adapt to) the presence of said exogenous substance. Cessation of use will lead to temporary suboptimal functioning, known to health gurus as 'withdrawal'.
 

PeskyPeater

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Has anyone experienced lower libido and worse erectile function upon cessation of Horny Goat weed? I was taking a tincture off and on for a month or two and it really helped with blood flow and erectile function, but now that I'm off of it it feels like my libido and erectile function is worse than it was before going on the supplement. I'm wondering if it maybe down regulated some receptors. Has anyone had a similar experience (either with HGW or similar PDE5 inhibitors like Cialis, viagra, etc.)?
did not have bad effect on me after stopping it. The substance Icariin work via NO-cGMP signaling pathway and can affects PDE5.
PDE5 expression is downregulated with chronic use, improving the ability of blood flow in the genitals for a longer time. Effect of icariin on cyclic GMP levels and on the mRNA expression of cGMP-binding cGMP-specific phosphodiesterase (PDE5) in penile cavernosum - PubMed
Increases sperm count and testosteron by affecting steroidogenesis. Effects of icariin on reproductive functions in male rats - PubMed
 
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Blue Water

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It can happen, but it depends on your current state of health. Were things staying the same in general or declining slowly month after month before the supp? When you stop you realize your new low baseline, which would have happened without the supp.
Are you focusing on diet and lifestyle things as well to improve your erectile function?
Everything is back to normal, but it took 2-3 weeks or so.

did not have bad effect on me after stopping it. The substance Icariin work via NO-cGMP signaling pathway and can affects PDE5.
PDE5 expression is downregulated with chronic use, improving the ability of blood flow in the genitals for a longer time. Effect of icariin on cyclic GMP levels and on the mRNA expression of cGMP-binding cGMP-specific phosphodiesterase (PDE5) in penile cavernosum - PubMed
Increases sperm count and testosteron by affecting steroidogenesis. Effects of icariin on reproductive functions in male rats - PubMed
PDe5 is "downregulated." So in this case usage of horny goat weed or cialis would actually continue to have beneficial effect on blood flow after cessation?
 
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Everything is back to normal, but it took 2-3 weeks or so.


PDe5 is "downregulated." So in this case usage of horny goat weed or cialis would actually continue to have beneficial effect on blood flow after cessation?
Not using it anymore and haven't for over a year, but i had nothing but benefits from Horny Goat Weed. I was reluctant to mess about with PDE-5 inhibitors since Rhodiola Rosea tanked my libido and my EQ, but Horny Goat Weed was amazing for my situation(i developed EQ issues from a circulation issue in my upper thighs, edema etc due to twisting my left leg pretty badly)and everythings back in working order. If there is fallout i haven't noticed it
 

PeskyPeater

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PDe5 is "downregulated." So in this case usage of horny goat weed or cialis would actually continue to have beneficial effect on blood flow after cessation?
Not cialis, but the horny goat weed can upregulate the PDE-5 long term or even permanently. But HGW works on the higher system behind the PDE5 unlike directly as with cialis, this makes HGW much safer and a holistic approouch. And I would combine it with notoginseng and astragalus to increase the nervous function in the pelvic area, unless you have serious tumors
 

PeskyPeater

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Not using it anymore and haven't for over a year, but i had nothing but benefits from Horny Goat Weed. I was reluctant to mess about with PDE-5 inhibitors since Rhodiola Rosea tanked my libido and my EQ, but Horny Goat Weed was amazing for my situation(i developed EQ issues from a circulation issue in my upper thighs, edema etc due to twisting my left leg pretty badly)and everythings back in working order. If there is fallout i haven't noticed it
That is unfortunate, rhodiola usualy makes me horny like a teenager. I know that rhodiola can increase serotonin in the brain next to noradrenaline and dopamine, perhaps you already have high serotonin issues. I did read recently about it having SERM like effects downstream from estrogenic cells, I suppose this suppresses estrogen via a feedback effect to the brain reducing estrogen, and assuming you have high estrogen, hence the edema, you could have been used to getting your libido from the effects of estrogen..

edit - explain EQ?
 
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That is unfortunate, rhodiola usualy makes me horny like a teenager. I know that rhodiola can increase serotonin in the brain next to noradrenaline and dopamine, perhaps you already have high serotonin issues. I did read recently about it having SERM like effects downstream from estrogenic cells, I suppose this suppresses estrogen via a feedback effect to the brain reducing estrogen, and assuming you have high estrogen, hence the edema, you could have been used to getting your libido from the effects of estrogen..

edit - explain EQ?
EQ=Erection Quality

Apologies. I thought the context would have made it more obvious than it obviously was..

I'm manic depressive and have a SAD(schizo affective disorder)serotonin is the bane of my existence.

I kept reading conflicting information with Rhodiola Rosea as to what is more beneficial for ED and only tried Rhodiola Rosea standardised to 5% Salidrosides rather than Rosavins, which is what i read in most the studies as to what extract ratio proved beneficial to ED and libido related issues..i noticed straight away that it gave me a feeling of mild anhedonia, kind of like what i would expect from a small dose of an anti-psychotic, or an SSRI like Sertraline, but even so i persevered for about 3 months. My ED and EQ never improved at all and my libido was nonexistent by the time i decided to stop taking it. Maybe i should've tried the Rosavins standardisation, but i didn't see little evidence to support its use for ED when i looked

I don't think my EQ/ED issues had anything to do with estrogen exclusively as it's always been within range even when i had the edema from the accident, and my testosterone has always been the upper end of normal when i've had my couch potato periods.
 
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PeskyPeater

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EQ=Erection Quality

Apologies. I thought the context would have made it more obvious than it obviously was..

I'm manic depressive and have a SAD(schizo affective disorder)serotonin is the bane of my existence.

I kept reading conflicting information with Rhodiola Rosea as to what is more beneficial for ED and only tried Rhodiola Rosea standardised to 5% Salidrosides rather than Rosavins, which is what i read in most the studies as to what extract ratio proved beneficial to ED and libido related issues..i noticed straight away that it gave me a feeling of mild anhedonia, kind of like what i would expect from a small dose of an anti-psychotic, or an SSRI like Sertraline, but even so i persevered for about 3 months. My ED and EQ never improved at all and my libido was nonexistent by the time i decided to stop taking it. Maybe i should've tried the Rosavins standardisation, but i didn't see little evidence to support its use for ED when i looked

I don't think my EQ/ED issues had anything to do with estrogen exclusively as it's always been within range even when i had the edema from the accident, and my testosterone has always been the upper end of normal when i've had my couch potato periods.
ah that clears things up. No prob, im just very bad with abbreviations.

forget the rhodiola, if it doent work it doesnt work. I can speculate however that from using SSRI your brain could be slower in removing serotonin, perhaps from reduced expression of the transporters that re-uptake it for elimination to be broken down by the monoamine oxidase enzymes. And this may extend the inhibiting effects on other parts of the brain dampening pleasure.

good to hear you have no serious estrogen issues.

Take a look at this study below. I know that Hypoactive NMDA function as a result from chronic cannabis abuse leads to schizotypical symptoms. And it happens to also be indicated with bipolar disorder, formerly known as manic-depressive.

Abstract​

Glutamate is the most abundant excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and the ionotropic NMDA receptor is one of the major classes of its receptors, thought to play an important role in schizophrenia and mood disorders. The current systematic review summarized the evidence concerning the involvement of NMDA receptors in the pathophysiology of bipolar disorder. Genetic studies point to the genes encoding the NMDA 1, 2A and 2B subunits while neuropathological studies suggest a possible region specific decrease in the density of NMDA receptor and more consistently a reduced NMDA-mediated glutamatergic activity in patients with bipolar disorder in the frame of slower NMDA kinetics because of lower contribution of NR2A subunits. However the literature is poor and incomplete; future research is necessary to elucidate the mechanisms underlying bipolar disorder and its specific relationship to a possible NMDA malfunction and to explore the possibility of developing novel therapeutic agents.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...r_in_the_Etiopathogenesis_of_Bipolar_Disorder

As GABA can cause anhedonia and can use serotonin to put breaks on synaptic activity, it may be that GABA is dis-proportionally overactive and the glutamate system is underactive.
 
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EQ=Erection Quality

Apologies. I thought the context would have made it more obvious than it obviously was..

I'm manic depressive and have a SAD(schizo affective disorder)serotonin is the bane of my existence.

I kept reading conflicting information with Rhodiola Rosea as to what is more beneficial for ED and only tried Rhodiola Rosea standardised to 5% Salidrosides rather than Rosavins, which is what i read in most the studies as to what extract ratio proved beneficial to ED and libido related issues..i noticed straight away that it gave me a feeling of mild anhedonia, kind of like what i would expect from a small dose of an anti-psychotic, or an SSRI like Sertraline, but even so i persevered for about 3 months. My ED and EQ never improved at all and my libido was nonexistent by the time i decided to stop taking it. Maybe i should've tried the Rosavins standardisation, but i didn't see little evidence to support its use for ED when i looked

ah that clears things up. No prob, im just very bad with abbreviations.

forget the rhodiola, if it doent work it doesnt work. I can speculate however that from using SSRI your brain could be slower in removing serotonin, perhaps from reduced expression of the transporters that re-uptake it for elimination to be broken down by the monoamine oxidase enzymes. And this may extend the inhibiting effects on other parts of the brain dampening pleasure.

good to hear you have no serious estrogen issues.

Take a look at this study below. I know that Hypoactive NMDA function as a result from chronic cannabis abuse leads to schizotypical symptoms. And it happens to also be indicated with bipolar disorder, formerly known as manic-depressive.

Abstract​

Glutamate is the most abundant excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and the ionotropic NMDA receptor is one of the major classes of its receptors, thought to play an important role in schizophrenia and mood disorders. The current systematic review summarized the evidence concerning the involvement of NMDA receptors in the pathophysiology of bipolar disorder. Genetic studies point to the genes encoding the NMDA 1, 2A and 2B subunits while neuropathological studies suggest a possible region specific decrease in the density of NMDA receptor and more consistently a reduced NMDA-mediated glutamatergic activity in patients with bipolar disorder in the frame of slower NMDA kinetics because of lower contribution of NR2A subunits. However the literature is poor and incomplete; future research is necessary to elucidate the mechanisms underlying bipolar disorder and its specific relationship to a possible NMDA malfunction and to explore the possibility of developing novel therapeutic agents.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...r_in_the_Etiopathogenesis_of_Bipolar_Disorder

As GABA can cause anhedonia and can use serotonin to put breaks on synaptic activity, it may be that GABA is dis-proportionally overactive and the glutamate system is underactive.
Thanks for this

I'll look into it when i have some time
 
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