Hormone replacement for ‘fixed’ pets? (cats/dogs)

[liamdavis]

Both of my cats are ‘fixed’. The male had his testes removed at birth and the female had her ovaries removed at 1 year of age. The male is 5 years old and the female is 2.

We adopted both cats after the fact. I want them to have the best lives possible (they are very good friends to me) and I sometimes think of how to restore any hormone production lost from their operations.

As you can read below, Ray Peat recommends progesterone indefinitely for women that have had their ovaries removed:

If a woman has ovaries, progesterone helps them to produce both progesterone and estrogen as needed, and also helps to restore normal functioning of the thyroid and other glands. If her ovaries have been removed, progesterone should be taken consistently to replace the lost supply.

Is it safe to give pregnenolone/progesterone/DHEA to a cat? How would the dosages differ between sexes? Are there any other supplements that would be preferable/safer?

I’d be interested in learning about this for dogs as well.

 

[liamdavis]

Devastating Effects Of Spaying/Neutering Pets

Dr. Karen Becker details the scientific facts that point to consequences of desexing pets. For Peaty Pets, but also, very relevant parallels can be drawn from this regarding the lack of hormones and disease states that arise as a result.

raypeatforum.com

Spaying Cats

My 2 meezers are scheduled to get fixed soon. They are over a year old, weigh about 5-6 pounds each, and are cycling pretty regularly. I wonder if anyone has thoughts or recommendations about how to ease the trauma of the hormonal shift (at least one will most likely be in heat at the time...

raypeatforum.com

Judging by these previous discussions, a couple drops of progest E oil could help. I wonder if that’s the most effective option though.

 

[Energizer]

Progesterone intoxication inducing marked sedation in a cat​

Marc P Dhumeaux 1 , Elisabeth C R Snead, Germaine C Hung, Susan M Taylor

Affiliations

• PMID: 20817586
• DOI: 10.1016/j.jfms.2010.05.008

Abstract​

A 3-year-old, male castrated domestic shorthair cat presented for sudden onset of severe lethargy and loss of balance a few hours after potentially ingesting capsules containing progesterone. Elevated serum progesterone was confirmed. Supportive care and time resulted in complete resolution of the clinical signs with no long-term complications or recurrence of clinical signs noticed after 1-month follow-up. This is the first description of progesterone intoxication inducing neurological signs in a cat.

Progesterone intoxication inducing marked sedation in a cat - PubMed

Progest-E is very safe, worth trying. Don't know about dosages, I would just try the lowest and go from there. The female might require more progesterone to get her systems running again so she can get her estrous cycles back. Pregnenolone manufacturing standards have changed and thus I wouldn't bother unless you know of a quality source. DHEA is not safe unless you know what you're doing; DHEA can convert to estrogen with low thyroid function. With progesterone watch for effects like drunkenness (that means they're getting too much).

Another thing that might help is if you have lots of light coming through your windows where they can hang out, or if they have outdoor space to sunbathe. After all it is important for steroid production. I wouldn't mess with DHEA, it can convert to estrogen with poor thyroid function. The only other thing I can think of is to consider doing a search on the diet threads for dogs/cats. They can usually benefit from eating what we on the forum eat: a high calcium, high carb diet.

Texas Man with Longest Living Cats

 

[Vanset]

You would have to find out how much testosterone a male cat produces in a day. There must be some literature on it.

 

[Vanset]

Testosterone and androstenedione profiles in the blood of domestic tom-cats

Testosterone and androstenedione were measured in the blood of four mature, intact tom-cats. Samples were collected from an indwelling jugular cathete…

www.sciencedirect.com

Testosterone and androstenedione were measured in the blood of four mature, intact tom-cats. Samples were collected from an indwelling jugular catheter once an hour for 24 h, and at more frequent intervals after a number of experimental procedures. Testosterone and androstenedione concentrations have a pattern of episodic release over a 24-h period but no diurnal rhythm was evident. The range of testosterone concentration was 0–23.5 ng/ml and androstenedione concentration 0–35.7 ng/ml. There was evidence of some seasonal influence on testosterone concentration, it being low in the period of reduced sexual activity (Jan–March) and high in the period of peak sexual activity (Aug).

Sexual stimulation did not cause a rise in testosterone concentration as it was already high, but androstenedione concentration was significantly increased.

Castration produced an immediate decrease in testosterone to baseline concentrations of 0–0.5 ng/ml but the concentration of androstenedione was variable and it is probable that a substantial amount of androstenedione is contributed from another source (possibly from the adrenals).

 

[liamdavis]

Testosterone and androstenedione profiles in the blood of domestic tom-cats

Testosterone and androstenedione were measured in the blood of four mature, intact tom-cats. Samples were collected from an indwelling jugular cathete…

www.sciencedirect.com

Testosterone and androstenedione were measured in the blood of four mature, intact tom-cats. Samples were collected from an indwelling jugular catheter once an hour for 24 h, and at more frequent intervals after a number of experimental procedures. Testosterone and androstenedione concentrations have a pattern of episodic release over a 24-h period but no diurnal rhythm was evident. The range of testosterone concentration was 0–23.5 ng/ml and androstenedione concentration 0–35.7 ng/ml. There was evidence of some seasonal influence on testosterone concentration, it being low in the period of reduced sexual activity (Jan–March) and high in the period of peak sexual activity (Aug).

Sexual stimulation did not cause a rise in testosterone concentration as it was already high, but androstenedione concentration was significantly increased.

Castration produced an immediate decrease in testosterone to baseline concentrations of 0–0.5 ng/ml but the concentration of androstenedione was variable and it is probable that a substantial amount of androstenedione is contributed from another source (possibly from the adrenals).

Thanks for sharing.

What would be the proper dosage of pregnenolone for a male cat, given these findings?

Or is something else preferable? I’m likely not going to put my cat on TRT, lol.

I might try 1mg of pregnenolone with a little progest E and see how he reacts.

 

[liamdavis]

Progesterone intoxication inducing marked sedation in a cat - PubMed

Progest-E is very safe, worth trying. Don't know about dosages, I would just try the lowest and go from there. The female might require more progesterone to get her systems running again so she can get her estrous cycles back. Pregnenolone manufacturing standards have changed and thus I wouldn't bother unless you know of a quality source. DHEA is not safe unless you know what you're doing; DHEA can convert to estrogen with low thyroid function. With progesterone watch for effects like drunkenness (that means they're getting too much).

Another thing that might help is if you have lots of light coming through your windows where they can hang out, or if they have outdoor space to sunbathe. After all it is important for steroid production. I wouldn't mess with DHEA, it can convert to estrogen with poor thyroid function. The only other thing I can think of is to consider doing a search on the diet threads for dogs/cats. They can usually benefit from eating what we on the forum eat: a high calcium, high carb diet.

Texas Man with Longest Living Cats

Good thing I live in Texas, lol.

What about the pregnenolone from SuchLabs? Isn’t it a high quality product, given that it’s advertised on this forum?

 

[Vanset]

Thanks for sharing.

What would be the proper dosage of pregnenolone for a male cat, given these findings?

Or is something else preferable? I’m likely not going to put my cat on TRT, lol.

I might try 1mg of pregnenolone with a little progest E and see how he reacts.

I think either pregnenolone or DHEA would make the most sense for a male cat.

 

[Vanset]

Thanks for sharing.

What would be the proper dosage of pregnenolone for a male cat, given these findings?

Or is something else preferable? I’m likely not going to put my cat on TRT, lol.

I might try 1mg of pregnenolone with a little progest E and see how he reacts.

Why not? Imagine the gains
I don't think progest e makes sense for a male castrated cat. If you want extra progesterone then just give him pregnenolone, at least it will also go down the allopregnenolone pathway. That is if cats are anything like humans.
DHEA might be okay as well for the male, in very, very low doses orally.
I know it's unlikely, but if you ever decided for it then the best option for a cat TRT (lol) would probably be a gel since you can dose very small amounts with it.
For the female cat best option would be pregnenolone and/or progesterone.

 

[Energizer]

@liamdavis Probably. I haven't tried it though (the pregnenolone product).

 

[liamdavis]

@Vanset @Energizer

Thanks for your input. I guess I just have to take the leap and try it out

 

[Regina]

Both of my cats are ‘fixed’. The male had his testes removed at birth and the female had her ovaries removed at 1 year of age. The male is 5 years old and the female is 2.

We adopted both cats after the fact. I want them to have the best lives possible (they are very good friends to me) and I sometimes think of how to restore any hormone production lost from their operations.

As you can read below, Ray Peat recommends progesterone indefinitely for women that have had their ovaries removed:



Is it safe to give pregnenolone/progesterone/DHEA to a cat? How would the dosages differ between sexes? Are there any other supplements that would be preferable/safer?

I’d be interested in learning about this for dogs as well.

I give my 18 yr old neutered dog pregnenolone every evening.
I use pregnenolone powder from suchlabs. I eyeball it with a bit on the end of a knife added to his nightly cozy shack rice pudding.

I wish I had thought of it earlier in his life. Because it has done wonders for his reactivity.
He's way cooler to take to Home Depot and much less reactive to other dogs.

He's also gotten peppier and more playful. Sleeps deeply.

He is hungrier though.