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Honey Isn’t As Healthy As We Think

Brian

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Jun 8, 2014
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505
It's not surprising that the average person sees a decrease in health markers with a higher intake of fructose, when their diet may be simultaneously high in PUFA or already have impaired liver function from fatty liver in combination with a chronic low B1, potassium and magnesium intake.

I also didn't do well on fructose intake until I addressed my liver function. It really does seem to be an important key for thriving on fructose, especially after eating a low carb diet for a few years or a period of high stress/under-eating.
 

squanch

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May 7, 2014
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Brian said:
I also didn't do well on fructose intake until I addressed my liver function. It really does seem to be an important key for thriving on fructose, especially after eating a low carb diet for a few years or a period of high stress/under-eating.

How exactly did you address your liver function?
 

Brian

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Skally said:
post 99362
Brian said:
I also didn't do well on fructose intake until I addressed my liver function. It really does seem to be an important key for thriving on fructose, especially after eating a low carb diet for a few years or a period of high stress/under-eating.

How exactly did you address your liver function?

I basically just followed Haidut's recommendations: working up to high dose caffeine, K2, B1, Methylene blue for a few weeks. I also ate a low fructose/high starch/lower fat diet while trying to work on my liver, in order to give minimal amount of substances that it would need to process.
 
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squanch

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Brian said:
post 99364
Skally said:
post 99362
Brian said:
I also didn't do well on fructose intake until I addressed my liver function. It really does seem to be an important key for thriving on fructose, especially after eating a low carb diet for a few years or a period of high stress/under-eating.

How exactly did you address your liver function?

I basically just followed Haidut's recommendations: working up to high dose caffeine, K2, B1, Methylene blue for a few weeks. I also ate a low fructose/high starch/lower fat diet while trying to work on my liver, in order to give minimal amount of substances that it would need to process.

Interesting, thanks.
A magnesium + b6 combo has already helped me a lot with the headaches I get after eating to much sugar.

I might give caffeine and k2 a try and see what happens.
How much exactly did you use?
 
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slayers

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how much K2?
I started the super K formula by life extension
 

YuraCZ

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Apr 24, 2015
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Brian said:
post 99364
Skally said:
post 99362
Brian said:
I also didn't do well on fructose intake until I addressed my liver function. It really does seem to be an important key for thriving on fructose, especially after eating a low carb diet for a few years or a period of high stress/under-eating.

How exactly did you address your liver function?

I basically just followed Haidut's recommendations: working up to high dose caffeine, K2, B1, Methylene blue for a few weeks. I also ate a low fructose/high starch/lower fat diet while trying to work on my liver, in order to give minimal amount of substances that it would need to process.
So how look your macros and what foods you eat? I need recover my liver and detox pufa/estrogen from the tissue as well. So I try to eat only very easy digestible foods and also low fructose/fat.. So jasmine rice, buckwheat, carrot, collagen, whey protein powder, some coconut oil or butter, once a day some meat, once a week beef liver.. And now I will add homemade kefir again. For me extremely easy to digest( no lactose, pre digested casein) and important source of all vitamins, calcium..
 
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Nicholas

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weird - because i've seen a few posts here showing fructose to be very important in liver healing (including from Haidut). I don't necessarily agree with that just as i don't necessarily agree that honey or fructose is bad for anyone. i just try to meet my body where it's at. eating a varied diet kills a lot of birds with one stone and eliminates a lot of errors.
 
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Pointless.

"The researchers gave subjects daily doses of each of three sweeteners - honey, cane sugar and high-fructose corn sweetener - for two weeks at a time. They then compared measures of blood sugar, insulin, body weight, cholesterol and blood pressure in the 55 subjects."

As though they could know exactly what said 55 people really ate every single day for 14 days, every morsel, and what their life stress was. Not controlled. The guy who got in a fight with his wife and was miserable in his relationship, that stress wasn't accounted for in the study.

"Honey has been used therapeutically for thousands of years, and recently there has been some research documenting a variety of uses, including treatment of ulcers and colitis, and other inflammatory conditions. Obesity increases mediators of inflammation, including the C-reactive protein (CRP) and homocysteine. Honey, which contains free fructose and free glucose, lowers CRP and homocysteine, as well as triglycerides, glucose, and cholesterol, while it increased insulin more than sucrose did (Al-Waili, 2004). Hypoglycemia intensifies inflammatory reactions, and insulin can reduce inflammation if sugar is available. Obesity, like diabetes, seems to involve a cellular energy deficiency, resulting from the inability to metabolize sugar." - RP

" The very old practice of treating deep wounds with honey or granulated sugar has been studied in controlled situations, including the treatment of diabetic ulcers, infected deep wounds following heart surgery, and wounds of lepers. The treatment eradicates bacterial infections better than some antiseptics, and accelerates healing without scarring, or with minimal scarring. The sugar regulates the communication between cells, and optimizes the synthesis of collagen and extracellular matrix." - RP
 

bailadora

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Jun 3, 2015
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Honey was also used to treat burns ( I will put It on minor burns I get in the kitchen) and it was used On many battlefields to treat injuries.
 

James IV

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Nov 8, 2013
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Brian said:
post 99351 It's not surprising that the average person sees a decrease in health markers with a higher intake of fructose, when their diet may be simultaneously high in PUFA or already have impaired liver function from fatty liver in combination with a chronic low B1, potassium and magnesium intake.

I also didn't do well on fructose intake until I addressed my liver function. It really does seem to be an important key for thriving on fructose, especially after eating a low carb diet for a few years or a period of high stress/under-eating.

This.

I think many people on this forum would see instant results by taking in more easy to utilize glucose to displace fructose, especially coming from a low carb background. Fructose is fine, but about half of it is converted to glucose in the liver. So if your liver is sluggish, you are getting a double whammy of insufficient glucose (from lack of conversion) as well as free fructose feeding bacteria and dehydrating the colon.
 
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James IV said:
post 99460
Brian said:
post 99351 It's not surprising that the average person sees a decrease in health markers with a higher intake of fructose, when their diet may be simultaneously high in PUFA or already have impaired liver function from fatty liver in combination with a chronic low B1, potassium and magnesium intake.

I also didn't do well on fructose intake until I addressed my liver function. It really does seem to be an important key for thriving on fructose, especially after eating a low carb diet for a few years or a period of high stress/under-eating.

This.

I think many people on this forum would see instant results by taking in more easy to utilize glucose to displace fructose, especially coming from a low carb background. Fructose is fine, but about half of it is converted to glucose in the liver. So if your liver is sluggish, you are getting a double whammy of insufficient glucose (from lack of conversion) as well as free fructose feeding bacteria and dehydrating the colon.

This has been true for me also. Along with being MODERATE salt and fat intake. Not too little not too much.
 
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sunmountain

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May 12, 2014
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Taking in glucose won't work if you're insulin resistant or reactive hypoglycemic, right?
 
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After a year and a half of eating a peat style diet, I am suspicious that fructose can contribute to insulin resistance along with too much fat. Sure the short term effects of fructose on insulin are favorable, but I'm concerned about long term. Maybe with the right conditions it is best to use sugar, but personally I feel better limiting it at least in fall and winter.
 

haidut

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Here is the actual study and the clinical trial.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2 ... 6.abstract
https://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01371266

I think the articles from WP is misleading. The actual study said that the all sugars tested - sugar, honey, HFCS - increased inflammatory markers ONLY in the insulin resistant group (IGT). So, not sure how honey is the bad boy here. The only thing that can be concluded is that insulin resistant people do not respond well to sugars - something which is well known and expected. I think Ray needs to focus some of his writing more on how to reverse insulin resistance and this discussion needs to go beyond the Randle cycle and how fat makes you insulin resistant and sugar does not.
Btw, the study did find a positive effect of all sugars - i.e. systolic blood pressure decreased, which is probably due to the anti-stress effects of the sugars.
"...Systolic BP was unchanged, whereas diastolic BP was significantly lower in response to sugar intake across all treatments. An increase in high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hsCRP) was observed in the IGT group in response to all sugars. No treatment effect was observed for interleukin 6. HDL cholesterol did not differ as a result of status or treatment. Triglyceride (TG) concentrations increased significantly from pre- to post-treatment in response to all sugars tested. "
 

yoshiesque

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Mar 9, 2014
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Here is the actual study and the clinical trial.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2 ... 6.abstract
Glycemic Effects of Honey - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

I think the articles from WP is misleading. The actual study said that the all sugars tested - sugar, honey, HFCS - increased inflammatory markers ONLY in the insulin resistant group (IGT). So, not sure how honey is the bad boy here. The only thing that can be concluded is that insulin resistant people do not respond well to sugars - something which is well known and expected. I think Ray needs to focus some of his writing more on how to reverse insulin resistance and this discussion needs to go beyond the Randle cycle and how fat makes you insulin resistant and sugar does not.
Btw, the study did find a positive effect of all sugars - i.e. systolic blood pressure decreased, which is probably due to the anti-stress effects of the sugars.
"...Systolic BP was unchanged, whereas diastolic BP was significantly lower in response to sugar intake across all treatments. An increase in high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hsCRP) was observed in the IGT group in response to all sugars. No treatment effect was observed for interleukin 6. HDL cholesterol did not differ as a result of status or treatment. Triglyceride (TG) concentrations increased significantly from pre- to post-treatment in response to all sugars tested. "


Does this mean that I should NOT be eating a Ray Peat diet until my Insulin Resistance is fixed? That is, cut down on all the sugars?
 
Joined
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i wouldn't cut down on sugars. I'd take niacinamide, biotin, B6 P5P, thiamine, all through the day, with lots of red lights. Sugars inhibit free fatty acids which are closer to the cause of insulin resistance. The vitamins are probably a reason why brewer's yeast may help diabetes and Ray's dad's story.
 

haidut

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Does this mean that I should NOT be eating a Ray Peat diet until my Insulin Resistance is fixed? That is, cut down on all the sugars?

No, because keeping sugar low will trigger release of FFA and it will impair insulin resistance even more.
 

Texon

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Nov 28, 2016
Messages
460
@haidut
So IYO, what are some bullet points about the best way to mitigate insulin resistance?

BTW for some reason unknown to me, I notice that Starbucks mocha drinks (in the small bottles) seem to be of particular benefit for me above and beyond any similar coffee drink homebrew or otherwise (I have no vested interest). Beyond the usual ingredients, citric acid and pectin are the only others included that I recall. BEWARE the same quart sized product in the grocery refrigerator aisle which contains carageenan.
 

haidut

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@haidut
So IYO, what are some bullet points about the best way to mitigate insulin resistance?

BTW for some reason unknown to me, I notice that Starbucks mocha drinks (in the small bottles) seem to be of particular benefit for me above and beyond any similar coffee drink homebrew or otherwise (I have no vested interest). Beyond the usual ingredients, citric acid and pectin are the only others included that I recall. BEWARE the same quart sized product in the grocery refrigerator aisle which contains carageenan.

This has been covered many times before on the forum. Did you search for "insulin resistance"? You can use Google to search the forum for the same phrase if the forum search function returns too many results.
 
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