Homemade mitosynergy copper (copper 1) Does it really work??

[Dave Clark]

Charles Barker says that not all Cu1 is good, and refers to Cu1 oxide as being toxic.
lately I just made hot water, added sodium bicarbonate, some ascorbic acid and last but not least added a liquiy copper (II) bisglycinate solution out of curiosity.
It turned from skyblue into dark orange color. Is this possibly copper 1?
This was Charles Barker's repsonse:
Yes you Copper 1 Oxide. Just because its Copper 1 Does not make it good for you. We start with Copper 1 chloride and make Copper 1 Niacin. WARNING Copper 1 oxide os toxic. IF it was only that easy. #mitoup #cunermuspir

 

[youngsinatra]

Charles Barker says that not all Cu1 is good, and refers to Cu1 oxide as being toxic.
lately I just made hot water, added sodium bicarbonate, some ascorbic acid and last but not least added a liquiy copper (II) bisglycinate solution out of curiosity.
It turned from skyblue into dark orange color. Is this possibly copper 1?
This was Charles Barker's repsonse:
Yes you Copper 1 Oxide. Just because its Copper 1 Does not make it good for you. We start with Copper 1 chloride and make Copper 1 Niacin. WARNING Copper 1 oxide os toxic. IF it was only that easy. #mitoup #cunermuspir

https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2903/j.efsa.2016.4509

Inclusion of dicopper oxide instead of copper sulfate in diets for growing-finishing pigs results in greater final body weight and bone mineralization, but reduced accumulation of copper in the liver - PubMed

An experiment was conducted to test the hypothesis that inclusion of Cu oxide (Cu2O) in diets for growing-finishing pigs improves body weight (BW) and bone mineralization, and reduces accumulation of Cu in the liver compared with pigs fed diets containing Cu sulfate (CuSO4). Two hundred growing...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

His responds seem like fear porn.

 

[artist]

Vitamin E turns copper (II) into Copper (I) as well. No idea if this is desirable but thought I’d throw it out there.

Interaction of alpha-tocopherol with copper and its effect on lipid peroxidation - PubMed

The interaction between alpha-tocopherol and copper ion and its effect on the oxidations of methyl linoleate micelles and soybean phosphatidylcholine liposomes in aqueous dispersions have been studied. alpha-Tocopherol reacted with copper in methanol with a rate constant estimated as 0.56 M-1s-1...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Dave Clark]

Vitamin E turns copper (II) into Copper (I) as well. No idea if this is desirable but thought I’d throw it out there.

Interaction of alpha-tocopherol with copper and its effect on lipid peroxidation - PubMed

The interaction between alpha-tocopherol and copper ion and its effect on the oxidations of methyl linoleate micelles and soybean phosphatidylcholine liposomes in aqueous dispersions have been studied. alpha-Tocopherol reacted with copper in methanol with a rate constant estimated as 0.56 M-1s-1...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The pro-oxidant effect for lipid peroxidation doesn't exactly sound like something desirable. It may turn the copper from one form to the other, but it sounds like oxidation is the result of that reaction. Having less copper 2 in your body sounds like a better plan, and chelating any free iron or copper to reduce or eliminate that reaction, where things like IP-6 , NBMI, etc. would be useful.

 

[InChristAlone]

Wow, scary to see these experiments in light of how many people have been destroyed by copper IUDs and such. Marriages, relationships, careers destroyed because copper toxicity causes mental disease. Sure it's fine if it's well bound up but any free oxidized copper will destroy you.

 

[Ben.]

Wow, scary to see these experiments in light of how many people have been destroyed by copper IUDs and such. Marriages, relationships, careers destroyed because copper toxicity causes mental disease. Sure it's fine if it's well bound up but any free oxidized copper will destroy you.

Isn't that kind of toxicity a result of year long and unknown/unaware exposure of realy high amounts of copper? Perhaps some other underlying health issue causing the body to not be able to deal with it is a potential problem too?

 

[youngsinatra]

I think that the selfmade copper (I) may not work.

I have bought some HCL (to see how it may look like at the stomach acid level) and any type of reduced copper (I) becomes transparent, probably by becoming copper (I) chloride. I also bought some copper (I) oxide and mixed it with nicotinic acid in HCL, for a minute it looks exactly like mitosynergy‘s powder, but it also becomes transparent quickly.

I also noticed that I get copper deficiency symptoms if I rely only on selfmade copper (I). Especially the symptoms of bradycardia (slow heart rate), fatigue, electrolyte retention and balance issues.

If I take 4-6 mg of copper (II) bisglycinate then those symptoms resolve very quickly.

Copper (II) stays blue in HCL. Probably forms cupric chloride.

I think it‘s also kinda absurd that you need to take copper (I) on an empty stomach and hope that it reaches the GI tract non-oxidized.

 

[InChristAlone]

Isn't that kind of toxicity a result of year long and unknown/unaware exposure of realy high amounts of copper? Perhaps some other underlying health issue causing the body to not be able to deal with it is a potential problem too?

Women generally are more at risk because of the higher estrogen load increases copper. But I still think it's possible for men to have too much free copper as well, it would probably go along with any kind mental health problem.

 

[artist]

The pro-oxidant effect for lipid peroxidation doesn't exactly sound like something desirable. It may turn the copper from one form to the other, but it sounds like oxidation is the result of that reaction. Having less copper 2 in your body sounds like a better plan, and chelating any free iron or copper to reduce or eliminate that reaction, where things like IP-6 , NBMI, etc. would be useful.

Oxidation is definitionally required to change copper (II) to copper (I). Oxidation is the loss of an electron which is how that change occurs. Where is @oxidationisnormal lol

 

[artist]

It’s definitely bad to have copper or any metal in the wrong quantity or the wrong place, but the fears over copper just don’t seem to bear out in people who supplement it (at least the chelated form.) it’s also very bad to have not enough copper, as it leads to accumulation of that other heavy metal we need to regulate-iron. An iron overloaded liver doesn’t happen just from eating too much iron and the same thing applies to copper. Considering fructose is how copper deficiency is induced in laboratory settings, people attempting a high fructose diet are the exact people who need to hear about copper.

The body has very evolved means for regulating copper absorption and transfer because it is present in so many foods. My mood has actually never been better or more stable than when taking copper. I had a copper iud once and it made me a wreck before I had it removed within 4 days, probably because it functions by drastically increasing prostaglandins around the most hormonally sensitive area of your body. Totally different situation.

 

[artist]

I think that the selfmade copper (I) may not work.

I have bought some HCL (to see how it may look like at the stomach acid level) and any type of reduced copper (I) becomes transparent, probably by becoming copper (I) chloride. I also bought some copper (I) oxide and mixed it with nicotinic acid in HCL, for a minute it looks exactly like mitosynergy‘s powder, but it also becomes transparent quickly.

I also noticed that I get copper deficiency symptoms if I rely only on selfmade copper (I). Especially the symptoms of bradycardia (slow heart rate), fatigue, electrolyte retention and balance issues.

If I take 4-6 mg of copper (II) bisglycinate then those symptoms resolve very quickly.

Copper (II) stays blue in HCL. Probably forms cupric chloride.

I think it‘s also kinda absurd that you need to take copper (I) on an empty stomach and hope that it reaches the GI tract non-oxidized.

I also see no reason to do the copper (I) thing. In copper deficient patients regular chelated forms of copper (II) correct deficiency very effectively, and it seems safer. If copper isn’t being retained it’s probably due to other factors imo.

 

[InChristAlone]

It’s definitely bad to have copper or any metal in the wrong quantity or the wrong place, but the fears over copper just don’t seem to bear out in people who supplement it (at least the chelated form.) it’s also very bad to have not enough copper, as it leads to accumulation of that other heavy metal we need to regulate-iron. An iron overloaded liver doesn’t happen just from eating too much iron and the same thing applies to copper. Considering fructose is how copper deficiency is induced in laboratory settings, people attempting a high fructose diet are the exact people who need to hear about copper.

The body has very evolved means for regulating copper absorption and transfer because it is present in so many foods. My mood has actually never been better or more stable than when taking copper. I had a copper iud once and it made me a wreck before I had it removed within 4 days, probably because it functions by drastically increasing prostaglandins around the most hormonally sensitive area of your body. Totally different situation.

Yes you can have unavailable copper and feel like crap, what I am cautioning is unbound copper like we get from copper pipes and copper IUDs and copper cookware, those things are not going to go anywhere good. You can also feel good on copper. I would have days of euphoria when I was consuming chocolate and coffee. Until it didn't feel good anymore...copper is said to be the emotional mineral opening your awareness and feeling of emotions. That's great until it isn't and turns to mental rumination and paranoia. It's not an immediate toxicity. This is a slow process. And probably is not as bad if you already have a high zinc diet which blocks copper absorption. Not going to demonize copper, it's just wise to be careful of such a conductive mineral. I actually bought copper thinking it provides energy... I just could not get myself to swallow the pills. Copper is stimulating. Just be wise.

 

[youngsinatra]

I also see no reason to do the copper (I) thing. In copper deficient patients regular chelated forms of copper (II) correct deficiency very effectively, and it seems safer. If copper isn’t being retained it’s probably due to other factors imo.

Absolutely true.

 

[youngsinatra]

Yes you can have unavailable copper and feel like crap, what I am cautioning is unbound copper like we get from copper pipes and copper IUDs and copper cookware, those things are not going to go anywhere good. You can also feel good on copper. I would have days of euphoria when I was consuming chocolate and coffee. Until it didn't feel good anymore...copper is said to be the emotional mineral opening your awareness and feeling of emotions. That's great until it isn't and turns to mental rumination and paranoia. It's not an immediate toxicity. This is a slow process. And probably is not as bad if you already have a high zinc diet which blocks copper absorption. Not going to demonize copper, it's just wise to be careful of such a conductive mineral. I actually bought copper thinking it provides energy... I just could not get myself to swallow the pills. Copper is stimulating. Just be wise.

Have you ever had your copper status measured?

To calculate the free (unbound) copper level, the ceruloplasmin (in mg/dL) is multiplied by 3; this value is then subtracted from the total serum copper level (in μg/dL).

 

[artist]

Yes you can have unavailable copper and feel like crap, what I am cautioning is unbound copper like we get from copper pipes and copper IUDs and copper cookware, those things are not going to go anywhere good. You can also feel good on copper. I would have days of euphoria when I was consuming chocolate and coffee. Until it didn't feel good anymore...copper is said to be the emotional mineral opening your awareness and feeling of emotions. That's great until it isn't and turns to mental rumination and paranoia. It's not an immediate toxicity. This is a slow process. And probably is not as bad if you already have a high zinc diet which blocks copper absorption. Not going to demonize copper, it's just wise to be careful of such a conductive mineral. I actually bought copper thinking it provides energy... I just could not get myself to swallow the pills. Copper is stimulating. Just be wise.

I hear you. Better to err on the side of caution. Ensuring a balanced diet that includes copper should be enough for most people I figure, but imo if you eat a high fructose diet that only has like 1 mg of copper or something it will probably become an issue eventually. My gripe is that people tend to be solely cautious about copper and less so about things that deplete it. You definitely don't want loads of copper accumulating in the brain for instance, but you also don't want to have low copper in the liver or elsewhere either. You can also have low copper in absolute terms, not just "unavailable". Copper deficiency is a real phenomenon, you can induce low hepatic copper predictably via fructose and a low copper diet. Then you have none to source from in order to create neurotransmitters, build connective tissue etc. Copper was about 50% of the battle for healing my histamine problems, whereas vitamin C makes me very sick in even moderate dosages and gives me spider veins. Your mileage may vary.

I also think that a lot of the fears over copper stem from the 50 years of research on the effects of birth control on copper mismanagement in the body, which to me speaks more to the dangers of birth control than of copper itself.

 

[InChristAlone]

I hear you. Better to err on the side of caution. Ensuring a balanced diet that includes copper should be enough for most people I figure, but imo if you eat a high fructose diet that only has like 1 mg of copper or something it will probably become an issue eventually. My gripe is that people tend to be solely cautious about copper and less so about things that deplete it. You definitely don't want loads of copper accumulating in the brain for instance, but you also don't want to have low copper in the liver or elsewhere either. You can also have low copper in absolute terms, not just "unavailable". Copper deficiency is a real phenomenon, you can induce low hepatic copper predictably via fructose and a low copper diet. Then you have none to source from in order to create neurotransmitters, build connective tissue etc. Copper was about 50% of the battle for healing my histamine problems, whereas vitamin C makes me very sick in even moderate dosages and gives me spider veins. Your mileage may vary.

I also think that a lot of the fears over copper stem from the 50 years of research on the effects of birth control on copper mismanagement in the body, which to me speaks more to the dangers of birth control than of copper itself.

True copper deficiency causes anemia, low hemoglobin. I've been doing the Ray Peat stuff for 10 yrs but in the last 5.5 yrs I've been taking at least 2 grams of ascorbic acid. It greatly helped my histamine issues so much so I felt like it lowered it too much! Problem is it comes back if I try to go off so I'm trying to figure that out. I haven't tested copper or ceruloplasmin but I get yearly labs and my hemoglobin is right where it always was since 2011. Same with the other numbers they look great. No anemia. And yet I have consumed a lot of sugar over the yrs and cronometer rarely says I get enough copper as I don't eat liver, no chocolate anymore, no coffee anymore, no shellfish. When I was eating liver and addicted to chocolate I felt the worst. I was in adrenal burnout, I had severe panic attacks, a buzzing in my body that people with copper toxicity say they get. It's amazing I even got through that I truly thought I'd just die of exhaustion, vitamin C was part of my recovery and dropping the caffeine. This conversation has made me wonder though so I think I will get some labs as I have had a return of panic attacks when I try to go off the vitamin C or use things that help my liver. I have no craving for chocolate anymore though so I call that a win.

 

[artist]

True copper deficiency causes anemia, low hemoglobin. I've been doing the Ray Peat stuff for 10 yrs but in the last 5.5 yrs I've been taking at least 2 grams of ascorbic acid. It greatly helped my histamine issues so much so I felt like it lowered it too much! Problem is it comes back if I try to go off so I'm trying to figure that out. I haven't tested copper or ceruloplasmin but I get yearly labs and my hemoglobin is right where it always was since 2011. Same with the other numbers they look great. No anemia. And yet I have consumed a lot of sugar over the yrs and cronometer rarely says I get enough copper as I don't eat liver, no chocolate anymore, no coffee anymore, no shellfish. When I was eating liver and addicted to chocolate I felt the worst. I was in adrenal burnout, I had severe panic attacks, a buzzing in my body that people with copper toxicity say they get. It's amazing I even got through that I truly thought I'd just die of exhaustion, vitamin C was part of my recovery and dropping the caffeine. This conversation has made me wonder though so I think I will get some labs as I have had a return of panic attacks when I try to go off the vitamin C or use things that help my liver. I have no craving for chocolate anymore though so I call that a win.

Totally and honestly I have no idea how my experience reconciles with others like yours. Could be anything from different genetics, maybe different childhood diets, gut health, previous pharmaceuticals/supplements used etc. What I like about this forum is how it brings different things into my awareness for me to try, but I’ve definitely messed myself up with supplements before so it’s always good to have a reminder of the dark side of overdoing it on any given nutrient.

 

[youngsinatra]

Day 3 of using MitoSynergy‘s (Copper (I) nicotinic acid) powder - I put it in an empty capsule and take it on an empty stomach in the morning.

I took around 3.5 mg of elemental copper. (~20mg of the powder)

Booooy, this stuff hits different. Energy is high, my mental clarity seems improving so much and my verbal fluency is on point. (I am used to stutter and forget words or don‘t find the right ones)
Otherwise I feel very grounded, which is different than the normal copper supplements, which cause a irritability/restlessness with it. I sleep like a baby too.

Hits different than selfmade cu1 too.

 

[Ben.]

Day 3 of using MitoSynergy‘s (Copper (I) nicotinic acid) powder - I put it in an empty capsule and take it on an empty stomach in the morning.

I took around 3.5 mg of elemental copper. (~20mg of the powder)

Booooy, this stuff hits different. Energy is high, my mental clarity seems improving so much and my verbal fluency is on point. (I am used to stutter and forget words or don‘t find the right ones)
Otherwise I feel very grounded, which is different than the normal copper supplements, which cause a irritability/restlessness with it. I sleep like a baby too.

Hits different than selfmade cu1 too.

May i ask where did you get the powder? It woudnt let me buy from the official page and the europe supplier doesnt even list the pure powder. Every other seller sells overprised 0,8mg capsules with fillers like cellulose, gums etc.

I tried a few capsules but cant say i react that intensely but you are right, the effect is different, altough it seems like copper II is way more antimicrobial from my expereience.

 

[youngsinatra]

May i ask where did you get the powder? It woudnt let me buy from the official page and the europe supplier doesnt even list the pure powder. Every other seller sells overprised 0,8mg capsules with fillers like cellulose, gums etc.

I tried a few capsules but cant say i react that intensely but you are right, the effect is different, altough it seems like copper II is way more antimicrobial from my expereience.

I just ordered from the Mitosynergy shop directly. I paid 50$ for express shipping to Germany tho. And I took like 14 days to get here.

I may order more in one go the next time, if I re-buy that stuff.