Homeless Guys Have Tons Of Hair

[Pufa]

The forum isn't letting me post my comment, so I'll have to wait until the strange block goes away. I can pm you the studies if you want me too, but it would be more valuable to post them publicly.

Hmm wonder if your posting a link it doesnt like

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Hmm wonder if your posting a link it doesnt like

Do you think so? I never get any problems when posting links. I'll try erasing one link at a time and see if it works.

 

[Energizer]

I just asked a question related to hair.. your making this about whether homeless life is good or bad and getting too emotional.

People see what they want to see and ignore contradictory evidence. You're assuming the truth of what you're saying and not even questioning the validity of that observation - that homeless people have great hair - so you looking at people on the streets of NYC to you, is evidence of that - to me that's not enough evidence for anything. You're starting the thread out by assuming the truth of that without even bothering to question the biases of that conclusion. As I said earlier, homeless people do not live long, and not all homeless are permanently homeless, and many are younger, so you're not going to get a representative sample from that population.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Can you show studies for these points,
"
"athletes are not healthy"
"Baldness is always a sign that something is wrong."
"The 50 year-old alcoholic has lower levels of stress"
"feel great when they start a ketogenic diet, they feel very euphoric and energetic, and they may feel like they have more stamina and can breath better, but it's just cortisol and adrenaline, which degenerate the body over time"
"Lack of protein, too much estrogen and hypothyroidism can cause MPB in women too."

Sure.
-- "The 50 year-old alcoholic has lower levels of stress": alcohol has been shown to increase GABA signalling in the nervous system
--"athletes are not healthy"
--"Baldness is always a sign that something is wrong.": see "The purpose of hairs", by Joseph Parrott. He says lack of hair can cause blood vessel damage inside the head duet to lack of protection from temperature changes; also: ( In this study, they also mention that insulin resistance may be the link between baldness and stiff arteries, so very vigorous exercise, which increases FFAs, causing insulin resistance, can be one way to trigger baldness)
--"feel great when they start a ketogenic diet, they feel very euphoric and energetic, and they may feel like they have more stamina and can breath better, but it's just cortisol and adrenaline, which degenerate the body over time": Effects of Dietary Composition During Weight Loss Maintenance: A Controlled Feeding Study( cortisol increased by 18% and t3 decreased by 12%). The stress hormones can make chronic pains seem to "go away", but they are just hiding the pain, since these hormones numb the person, especially in situations of perceived danger. Kasey Stern, who has a channel on Youtube called "Vegetable Police", has noticed this exact thing when he went carnivore: no more back pain, not more gut pain, but when he started eating more fruits and carbs again, he became really tired and even had a gout attack, but he admitted that he felt extremely good on very low carb. This particular study doesn't show elevated adrenaline, but when you lower thyroid, adrenaline eventually rises to compensate for the lack of t3.
--"Lack of protein, too much estrogen and hypothyroidism can cause MPB in women too.": protein deficiency can cause both hypothyroidism and excess estrogen, both of which increase FFAs in the blood. The hair follicle has a big preference for sugar, so anything that gets in the way of sugar metabolism will affect hair health.
. PGD2 increases estrogen, and estrogen contributes to alopecia, likely due to the inhibition of glucose metabolism. Also:

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Can you show studies for these points,
"
"athletes are not healthy"
"Baldness is always a sign that something is wrong."
"The 50 year-old alcoholic has lower levels of stress"
"feel great when they start a ketogenic diet, they feel very euphoric and energetic, and they may feel like they have more stamina and can breath better, but it's just cortisol and adrenaline, which degenerate the body over time"
"Lack of protein, too much estrogen and hypothyroidism can cause MPB in women too."

-(The role of GABAA receptors in mediating the effects of alcohol in the central nervous system).
: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22160404; https://www.ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386(17)30536-X/fulltext
- see "The purpose of hairs", by Joseph Parrott. He says lack of hair can cause blood vessel damage inside the head duet to lack of protection from temperature changes; also: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11682-019-00147-y; Androgenetic alopecia is associated with increased arterial stiffness in asymptomatic young adults. - PubMed - NCBI( In this study, they also mention that insulin resistance may be the link between baldness and stiff arteries, so very vigorous exercise, which increases FFAs, causing insulin resistance, can be one way to trigger baldness)
Effects of Dietary Composition During Weight Loss Maintenance: A Controlled Feeding Study( cortisol increased by 18% and t3 decreased by 12%). The stress hormones can make chronic pains seem to "go away", but they are just hiding the pain, since these hormones numb the person, especially in situations of perceived danger. Kasey Stern, who has a channel on Youtube called "Vegetable Police", has noticed this exact thing when he went carnivore: no more back pain, not more gut pain, but when he started eating more fruits and carbs again, he became really tired and even had a gout attack, but he admitted that he felt extremely good on very low carb. This particular study doesn't show elevated adrenaline, but when you lower thyroid, adrenaline eventually rises to compensate for the lack of t3.

 

[Pufa]

While I did go on a tangent, my main point was the fallacy of assuming you have a great sample of people just by looking at random people on the street. Homeless people don't have great hair or great anything. It's called selection bias. However, the extra vitamin D would be protective like I said earlier.

could be selection bias.. but I dont think so. living in Manhattan i see more homeless than anyone in this country and they have way more hair than general population despite horrible health.
Hair growth is confusing so I can see how people have opposing views here.
Also not many people run into homeless on a daily basis like me.

 

[Sanjutsi]

Homeless don't sleep 2~6ft from a power outlet, near 10+ wi-fi routers or stay 8 hours a day behind a computer that emits high and low frequencies. Last year I took a gap year and my hair was awesome, even when cheating on my diet once in a while. I'm back in the office now facing a cellphone tower for 3 months and I feel my MPB is progressing again very aggresivly (itchy, sensitive scalp around the crown area is my telltale sign) even tho I'm doing strict Ray Peat, LLLT, idealabs, microneedling and scalp massages.

 

[Julles]

IF - Maybe its some little IF (fasting) effect over time, sometimes they can be for many hours without eating including sleep.

Iron - Almost no iron in diet? Almost no meat?

Stress - After an adaptation phase, it becomes very stressless....

Alcohol? - Alcohol is cheap. In many cases if you have some money and the hunger is not so bad you opt for alcohol for the boredom of life.

Outdoors - Vit D and Cold. More refined natural senses.

Of course homelessness does not define many things, if you are homeless you will eat what you can. Some eat more junk than others, some eat a lot of fruit. A lot homeless people are very smart and if they can choose some will choose the 'better' foods.

 

[mipp]

I think it's very likely that it was the cigarettes which were keeping your hair and that quitting smoking is what initiated the hair loss. Tobacco is very pro-metabolic and anti-estrogenic, even though smoking is harmful in other ways. Don't think it's wise to start smoking for hair though because even a super-contrarian like Dr. Peat has consistently been pretty adamant against smoking.

Yeah, I've thought about it too. Quitting smoking cold turkey like I did was probably quite stressful for my body. Tobacco is powerful and it definitely affects metabolism. Over ten years without it and I still miss some of its effects tbh. Sometimes I crave it and feel tempted to start smoking again but I know how addictive it is for me.
Anyway, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor so in theory not good for scalp blood flow at all. Also if smoking were protective against hair loss through whatever mechanism, someoene would have seen the connection by now. There are men who smoke and still get mpb.

Your situation is similar to haidut's. He lost all his hair during his low carb period, and of course, he was also going through lots of stress, which just compounded the issue.

You felt better when you ditched those coping mechanisms because, yes, they themselves are toxic if used for a long time, and the additives they put in cigarettes are a big issue, not to mention the PUFA you were probably eating through junk food, but also because of STRESS hormones. Most people feel great when they start a ketogenic diet, they feel very euphoric and energetic, and they may feel like they have more stamina and can breath better, but it's just cortisol and adrenaline, which degenerate the body over time. Alcohol and cigarettes can be very valuable to reduce stress when you don't have much knowledge of nutrition, and the fact that you started balding after you made the "healthy changes" is an argument against your statement that balding has nothing to do with metabolism.

The changes I made didn't increase stress that much if that's what you're saying, apart from tobacco withdrawal for the first few weeks. Other than that, what I did was stress reducing. Spending more time outside, walking, better food and eating habits, nothing drastic. I can think of more stressful events in my life. You mention haidut who lost his hair because of low carb. I followed low carb (but not keto) for years, first period starting at the age of 17-18 (my family went low carb) I don't know if it increased my adrenline but I'm sure it didn't cause hair loss for those first few years at least. At that age I had the best hair ever. My vertex thinning progressed rapidly some ten years later when I wasn't strictly following any particular diet or macro split. Since then it's been progressing very slowly no matter what diet I'm on.

 

[Pufa]

Homeless don't sleep 2~6ft from a power outlet, near 10+ wi-fi routers or stay 8 hours a day behind a computer that emits high and low frequencies. Last year I took a gap year and my hair was awesome, even when cheating on my diet once in a while. I'm back in the office now facing a cellphone tower for 3 months and I feel my MPB is progressing again very aggresivly (itchy, sensitive scalp around the crown area is my telltale sign) even tho I'm doing strict Ray Peat, LLLT, idealabs, microneedling and scalp massages.

Damn that's a solid regimen.. if your right that it's the emf that's horrible because theres nothing you can do about it if that's your career.
If anything this thread has inspired me to be outside more.. I've been hitting the beach and parks daily.

 

[retroactive]

I figure they eat a lot of simple sugars for soda

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

The changes I made didn't increase stress that much if that's what you're saying, apart from tobacco withdrawal for the first few weeks. Other than that, what I did was stress reducing. Spending more time outside, walking, better food and eating habits, nothing drastic. I can think of more stressful events in my life. You mention haidut who lost his hair because of low carb. I followed low carb (but not keto) for years, first period starting at the age of 17-18 (my family went low carb) I don't know if it increased my adrenline but I'm sure it didn't cause hair loss for those first few years at least. At that age I had the best hair ever. My vertex thinning progressed rapidly some ten years later when I wasn't strictly following any particular diet or macro split. Since then it's been progressing very slowly no matter what diet I'm on.

Ah, ok. What I understood from your previous post is that you started losing your hair after you lost some weight, and losing weight often causes stress, and it's difficult to distinguish stress from mild euphoria. Also, chronic, low dose stress takes much longer to cause problems than living in an extremely stressful environment for a few days. So people don't just have a stressful life for a month then develop MPB or cancer or diabetes. It's something that happens over many years, and young people can last much longer than that without apparent side-effects, but just like with X-rays, when the side-effects do come, it's hard to trace back.

My guess is that eating junk food, smoking, drinking, fapping, etc. are what was keeping the stress from reaching dangerous levels.

Have you ever tried making your own cigarettes from organic tobacco and using a carbon filter on the end that you'll smoke? Smoking is quite common among centenarians, and there is some threads on the internet on the benefits of hand-made cigarettes. I wouldn't touch the commercial cigarettes though, just the smell of those indicates to me that there is a lot of strange stuff in it.

Maybe that's why diet only isn't aiding in your hair-loss. Of course, you'd probably not need to smoke if your environment was perfect, but smoking does reduce stress. I'm not sure where I am, regarding alcohol though. Alcohol in itself isn't too damaging, but most people have so much endotoxin in their gut that ingesting alcohol in significant quantities is a bad idea, so I can't really recommend it. But for people who have a clean gut, drinking every now and then is probably harmless, or at least, not terrible. I'm not necessarily recommending smoking, what I think people with hair-loss or indigestion or constipation or any other chronic disease should do is try to improve their environment until their issues disappear, and you can use those issues as a gauge for your health.

 

[Pufa]

Sure.
-- "The 50 year-old alcoholic has lower levels of stress": alcohol has been shown to increase GABA signalling in the nervous system
--"athletes are not healthy"
--"Baldness is always a sign that something is wrong.": see "The purpose of hairs", by Joseph Parrott. He says lack of hair can cause blood vessel damage inside the head duet to lack of protection from temperature changes; also: ( In this study, they also mention that insulin resistance may be the link between baldness and stiff arteries, so very vigorous exercise, which increases FFAs, causing insulin resistance, can be one way to trigger baldness)
--"feel great when they start a ketogenic diet, they feel very euphoric and energetic, and they may feel like they have more stamina and can breath better, but it's just cortisol and adrenaline, which degenerate the body over time": Effects of Dietary Composition During Weight Loss Maintenance: A Controlled Feeding Study( cortisol increased by 18% and t3 decreased by 12%). The stress hormones can make chronic pains seem to "go away", but they are just hiding the pain, since these hormones numb the person, especially in situations of perceived danger. Kasey Stern, who has a channel on Youtube called "Vegetable Police", has noticed this exact thing when he went carnivore: no more back pain, not more gut pain, but when he started eating more fruits and carbs again, he became really tired and even had a gout attack, but he admitted that he felt extremely good on very low carb. This particular study doesn't show elevated adrenaline, but when you lower thyroid, adrenaline eventually rises to compensate for the lack of t3.
--"Lack of protein, too much estrogen and hypothyroidism can cause MPB in women too.": protein deficiency can cause both hypothyroidism and excess estrogen, both of which increase FFAs in the blood. The hair follicle has a big preference for sugar, so anything that gets in the way of sugar metabolism will affect hair health.
. PGD2 increases estrogen, and estrogen contributes to alopecia, likely due to the inhibition of glucose metabolism. Also:

I looked up vegetable police, he also has a video on hair loss. He regrew the most hair when he did a fruit diet and did yoga

 

[sladerunner69]

Look on this bodybuilder with AIDS, I am fcked when I saw it.

While it is impressive that a bum would have the willpower to workout that much, he doesn't strike me as particularly healthy looking. Too much vascularity, too little bodyfat. He is clearly starved and stressed.

 

[boxers]

While it is impressive that a bum would have the willpower to workout that much, he doesn't strike me as particularly healthy looking. Too much vascularity, too little bodyfat. He is clearly starved and stressed.

I think he looks good, not overally lean (maybe 10% BF, still within a healthy range, although looks is very hard to tell bodyfat) and his vascularity isnt much. I would assume he's not health though, looks can be deceiving. A healthy bodyfat range is usually around 10-20%)

Im curious to what health looks like to you....

 

[Broken man]

While it is impressive that a bum would have the willpower to workout that much, he doesn't strike me as particularly healthy looking. Too much vascularity, too little bodyfat. He is clearly starved and stressed.

My younger friends are looking same way and I think they are healthy.

 

[morgan#1]

While it is impressive that a bum would have the willpower to workout that much

If you examine what you said, it goes to the benefit of working out, to many. Hormones especially and it feels good. For example guys who just came out of prison, not saying their related people, they look they could be in a show. Prison push-ups, etc.

Many love it...challenges and feeling the body. I think that it might have something to do with something they CAN control, their physiques, and like I’ve said before, I don’t think they chose homelessness.

I’ve never seen homeless bodybuilding, but I definitely have seen people out of jail looking like they just had many trainers working on them.

No judgment on health, just examining the benefits of working out.

 

[sladerunner69]

I think he looks good, not overally lean (maybe 10% BF, still within a healthy range, although looks is very hard to tell bodyfat) and his vascularity isnt much. I would assume he's not health though, looks can be deceiving. A healthy bodyfat range is usually around 10-20%)

Im curious to what health looks like to you....

The things that come to mind are glowing skin that is not wrinkled or worn, not too much vascularity (this is a sign of estrogen dominance) and not overly lean to point of visible striations in the muscles (a sign of a diet low in glycogen- and hence, high serotonin and cortisol). Also when the lips are red and the cheeks are blushed (as the effect of make up tries to emmulate that youthful glow) that is a sign of a healthy metabolism. You can actually see this in older individuals if they have a good diet and non-stressful lifestyle, such as Ray Peat, whom is remarkably strong looking for his age. At ~80 years old the man has very few wrinkles, and has healthful glowing skin.

 

[morgan#1]

overly lean to point of visible striations in the muscles (a sign of a diet low in glycogen- and hence, high serotonin and cortisol).

That’s interesting

 

[boxers]

Ray does look

The things that come to mind are glowing skin that is not wrinkled or worn, not too much vascularity (this is a sign of estrogen dominance) and not overly lean to point of visible striations in the muscles (a sign of a diet low in glycogen- and hence, high serotonin and cortisol). Also when the lips are red and the cheeks are blushed (as the effect of make up tries to emmulate that youthful glow) that is a sign of a healthy metabolism. You can actually see this in older individuals if they have a good diet and non-stressful lifestyle, such as Ray Peat, whom is remarkably strong looking for his age. At ~80 years old the man has very few wrinkles, and has healthful glowing skin.

usually when you have visible strations requires sub 7-8% bodyfat which is not healthy.
I never heard of vascular being linked to estrogen, but most pro bodybuilders are very vascular yet are on aromasin or some type of ai

Ray looks fantastic,