Holy Basil, Saffron, Stinging Nettles

June

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Can anyone point me in the right direction? I wanted to utilize these for a deep depression/anxiety that was caused by short term birth control use. I've been reading contradicting information, especially when it pertains to Holy basil. Some say it raises serotonin levels and then another article says it raises dopamine. Since I am dopamine dominant, raising dopamine would not be a good option. I am also estrogen dominant so anything to lower that would be a bonus and lets not forget the high cortisol all this stress has caused me. Some mention that stinging nettle has serotonin on it's sharp hairs but is it a part of the leaves that are consumed or used in the tea? Does anyone know what neurotransmitters the holy basil, saffron, and stinging nettle work on? The saffron seems mighty interesting but I'm not looking for some psychedelic experience. Would chewing on a strand or two make a difference in mood? I thought going the route of B vitamins would help replenish what was depleted but it seems to cause an uptick in my anxiety. I felt the same when I took desiccated liver capsules at 4 capsules a day.
 
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Stinging nettle is a potent TNF inhibitor and immunosuppressor. Be careful.
 

Milena

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I would
Stinging nettle is a potent TNF inhibitor and immunosuppressor. Be careful.
Chew on a strand or handle raw nettle ungloved. Nettle tea is pleasant but dehydrating to mucus membrane in my experience.
 
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I would

Chew on a strand or handle raw nettle ungloved. Nettle tea is pleasant but dehydrating to mucus membrane in my experience.

We used to fight using nettle as a weapon when I was a kid. After short fierce battle you look like a leprosy sufferer lol.
 

charlie

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We still need it to fight infections. Anti-TNF drugs are know for opportunistic infections risks.

Tumor Necrosis Factor Inhibitors and Infection Complications
Tumor Necrosis Factor Inhibitors and Infection Complications

Clinical use of anti-TNF therapy and increased risk of infections
Clinical use of anti-TNF therapy and increased risk of infections

Infection risk associated with anti-TNF-α agents: a review.
Infection risk associated with anti-TNF-α agents: a review. - PubMed - NCBI
 
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June

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We still need it to fight infections. Anti-TNF drugs are know for opportunistic infections risks.

Tumor Necrosis Factor Inhibitors and Infection Complications
Tumor Necrosis Factor Inhibitors and Infection Complications

Clinical use of anti-TNF therapy and increased risk of infections
Clinical use of anti-TNF therapy and increased risk of infections

Infection risk associated with anti-TNF-α agents: a review.
Infection risk associated with anti-TNF-α agents: a review. - PubMed - NCBI

What if this was used for short term? To get back on my feet and undo some of the hormonal/mental changes high dose birth control pills caused?

We used to fight using nettle as a weapon when I was a kid. After short fierce battle you look like a leprosy sufferer lol.

LOL I'm glad I never grew around stinging nettle around my neck of the woods. I would have been tortured.


So what are the thoughts on Holy basil or Saffron?
 
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What if this was used for short term? To get back on my feet and undo some of the hormonal/mental changes high dose birth control pills caused?



LOL I'm glad I never grew around stinging nettle around my neck of the woods. I would have been tortured.


So what are the thoughts on Holy basil or Saffron?
I assume this herbal mix was prescribed by a some kind of naturopath. Could your provide source of this honestly strange herbal preparation? How exactly it supposed to help according to the source? As I mentioned in another topic I'm against any complex herbal mixes because interactions are unpredictable.
I think you have to identify exact type of depression your have probably with help of a specialist. Because I believe treatment approaches are totally different for melancholic or atypical depressions as they have opposite HPA features for example. I mean not that standard SSRI way but a metabolically targeted solution.
 
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June

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I assume this herbal mix was prescribed by a some kind of naturopath. Could your provide source of this honestly strange herbal preparation? How exactly it supposed to help according to the source? As I mentioned in another topic I'm against any complex herbal mixes because interactions are unpredictable.
I think you have to identify exact type of depression your have probably with help of a specialist. Because I believe treatment approaches are totally different for melancholic or atypical depressions as they have opposite HPA features for example. I mean not that standard SSRI way but a metabolically targeted solution.

It was not prescribed. Actually it was a naturopath who put me in such a predicament where I am now needing something for the depression. I was healing from both SSRI withdrawal and two month use of benzodiazepines for 4.5 years and I was healing nicely. My fragile brain/system was healing in waves and windows. But recently in June 2018 my naturopath gave me glutathione to detox and it somehow made me bleed nonstop (I'm female) for several months. After ER visits I saw my gyno who gave me a months worth of high dose birth control and it didn't work so I gave acupuncture a try which was successful. But the birth control pills already did its damage to me mentally. I felt like crying every minute of the day and the sadness is so deep in the core of my soul. I can't watch a happy movie without the happiness just killing me. While on the pills I must have gone certifiably insane and no one understood why I was acting so erratic out of fear and weeping. I've been off since August and it is still with me. I wake up with heart palpitations and fear all cloaked in sadness. So this is either a neurotransmitter imbalance or hormonal imbalance but I believe they all feed off eachother. For someone who has gone through a type of brain injury from SSRI and benzo withdrawal, it is odd for me to say that this type of depression the birth control pills caused is insane!! I could hold onto positive thoughts when I was in those withdrawals but now its next to impossible after the birth control pills. My theory is that birth control pills deplete nutrients, mostly the b vitamins and this must have lowered my serotonin even further and the high estrogen continues to feed the high dopamine sending me into agitation hell. I wonder if cortisol will lower once the dopamine reduces.

Through genetics testing I find out I am predisposed to being high in dopamine and estrogen dominant so I can imagine this little stint threw my levels through the roof, including my cortisol levels which is indicated by the heart palps. I am desperate to correct this imbalance or at least feel some relief if these can provide it in a very gentle way.

And I also want to try these each individually, not together as a complex or mix. That way if I run into problems, I will know all I need to do is to eliminate that one herb.
 

Nicole W.

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I drink Nettle tea frequently. I find it helpful for low energy, especially in the afternoon. It’s known to be full of minerals and vitamins, and I believe it’s a healthful addition to anyone’s diet in moderation. It’s been used for hundreds of years to support women’s health. I’d like to point out that you can not consider one compound ( or it’s mechanism of action) in any of these herbs in isolation. To say that an herb is immunosuppressive or estrogenic, or whatever, is overly reductive and somewhat alarmist. All the compounds in each herb work synergistically, that is what makes them health promoting. I do not find nettle to be particularly good for mood myself, but as it’s high in Calcium and other minerals it could be helpful. I’ve used Holy Basil as well. Really, any basil works the same way, its all pretty calming to the nervous system. I’m not sure which neurotransmitter are influenced by either of these herbs. Personally, I have had the greatest success with collagen hydrolosate (gelatin) and ample magnesium (from various sources) to improve mood and combat anxiety. Because most herbs should really only be used short term, I think you might be better off with these substances. That being said, you can’t overlook good nutrition, adequate sleep, stress reduction, sunlight etc... those are the most important things. I hope you can find your way to feeling better.
 

Lejeboca

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And I also want to try these each individually, not together as a complex or mix. That way if I run into problems, I will know all I need to do is to eliminate that one herb.

Am still curious: Why you've picked these three herbs?
I haven't seen them to used as "go-to" herbs for depression...
I second @Nicole W. 's thoughts, except that Holy Basil was stimulating+warming for me. Just to tell how same herbs affect differently different people.

If you'd like to try "safe" herbs, then Pau d'Arco, and Scutellaria Baikalensis were mentioned in this forum, see, e.g.,

Treatments With Tumor Dissolving Potential
 

Milena

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I would

Chew on a strand or handle raw nettle ungloved. Nettle tea is pleasant but dehydrating to mucus membrane in my experience.


Oooops! That should say WOULD NOT TOUCH A STINGING NETTLE. THEY HURT. AS AN ADULT SOMETIMES FOR DAYS.
 

Dave Clark

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Oooops! That should say WOULD NOT TOUCH A STINGING NETTLE. THEY HURT. AS AN ADULT SOMETIMES FOR DAYS.
I was wondering what part of that I missed. I planted nettle many years ago in my garden, that stuff is nasty to touch, and wouldn't even think about putting that in my mouth. They say when it is boiled or heated, the irritating hairs lose the irritating ability, but not so when raw!
 
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Can anyone point me in the right direction? I wanted to utilize these for a deep depression/anxiety that was caused by short term birth control use. I've been reading contradicting information, especially when it pertains to Holy basil. Some say it raises serotonin levels and then another article says it raises dopamine. Since I am dopamine dominant, raising dopamine would not be a good option. I am also estrogen dominant so anything to lower that would be a bonus and lets not forget the high cortisol all this stress has caused me. Some mention that stinging nettle has serotonin on it's sharp hairs but is it a part of the leaves that are consumed or used in the tea? Does anyone know what neurotransmitters the holy basil, saffron, and stinging nettle work on? The saffron seems mighty interesting but I'm not looking for some psychedelic experience. Would chewing on a strand or two make a difference in mood? I thought going the route of B vitamins would help replenish what was depleted but it seems to cause an uptick in my anxiety. I felt the same when I took desiccated liver capsules at 4 capsules a day.
Tulsi, or Holy Basil is mainly working via GABA calming neurotransmitter pathway. Practically similar to diazepam or other benzodiazepines.
This GABA action can relatively prevent reductions in other neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin in times of stress, but it is not so that it raises them per sé. It acts like an "adaptogen"

Ocimum tenuiflorum Linn. (synonym: Ocimum sanctum), generally known as Tulsi or Holy Basil, belongs to family lamiaceae. In Ayurveda, O. tenuiflorum has been used for adaptogenic/antistress activity [14]. It has been widely reported to possess antipyretic [15], antiasthmatic [16], antioxidant [17, 18], analgesic [19], and anti-inflammatory properties [20].
O. sanctum prevented reduction in the levels of brain catecholamine and monoamine oxidase and increase in dopamine and 5-hydroxytryptamine in rats exposed to swimming and gravitational stress [21].

Ocimum sanctum Linn. or Ocimum tenuiflorum L. (Family Lamiaceae)
Ocimun sanctum, commonly known as tulsi in Hindi and holy basil in English, is a very important plant in India and is used extensively in Ayurveda. Reports have suggested the presence of antipyretic, anti-stress, immunomodulatory, anti-inflammatory, analgesic, and other beneficial properties [6,7]. Preclinical studies with non-stressed and stressed (deprived of food and water) animals have shown that tulsi oil was effective as an immunomodulator in both non-stressed and stressed rats.
...
Additional experiments have shown that pretreatment with the oil effectively suppressed humoral as well as cell-mediated responses in retained animals. The oil was effective when combined with diazepam (an anxiolytic-sedative drug), suggesting its usefulness as an adjuvant to the conventional agent. Mechanistic studies showed that the immunomodulatory effect of the oil was negated when the animals were administered flumazenil, a central benzodiazepine receptor antagonist, confirming the role of GABA-ergic pathways in mediating these beneficial effects [6].
 
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... displayed promising antistress effects by normalizing hyperglycemia, plasma corticosterone, plasma creatine kinase, and adrenal hypertrophy. Compounds 2 and 5 were also effective in normalizing most of these stress parameters. - study

The observations exhibited that, O. sanctum significantly (p<0.001) attenuated generalized anxiety disorders and also attenuated its correlated stress and depression. It further significantly (p<0.001) improved the willingness to adjustment and attention in human. Therefore, it may be concluded that O. sanctum may be useful in the treatment of GAD in human and may be a promising anxiolytic agent in near future. - study

Composition of Holy Basil
 
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June

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Nicole, thank you for that. I definitely don't want anything to stimulate me further. But it's strange that it can be said that it's calming and at the same time stimulating? For some odd reason Magnesium is causing me issues right now. It affects my sleep and collagen makes me itch all over. Odd that I get these reactions. Maybe my body is super hyperactive right now? The acupuncturist I went to sensed that I may have "hypo-immunity".

Lejeboca- I chose those because I've seen them mentioned alot when referencing hormones, stress and histamines. Especially Holy basil and stinging nettle. All of which is imbalanced for me having undergone major stress with ssri/benzo withdrawals for 4.5 years before this birth control debacle.

General orange- I do worry about the GABA influence since I am still healing from GABA downregulation and don't want to hinder the healing. So as an adaptogen do you think it balances levels by increasing and decreasing where it needs to??

Well on the board I usually frequent for ssri/benzo withdrawals, there seems to be some success with taking saffron. While I appreciate the anecdotal stories there, I come here to this forum to understand why saffron may have such a positive effect. They sing the praises for it's mood lift much more than they do for Holy basil, now that I think about it. Only issue is I'm not sure what to start off with as some say just a pinch is enough. But with my odd immune system, I wonder if using two strands in tea would have an effect. I think a serotonin boost would be welcome but I much prefer a balance of things.
 

tara

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Fresh stinging nettle leaves and stalks have stinging hairs on them that hurt to touch.
But you can pick them with scissors/gloves and cook them in soup to make them harmless. Or brew tea. AIUI, if the soil is clean they are very nutritious.
 
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June

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I heard of many fans of stinging nettles and eat them often since they grow them in their yards. They even have nettles eating contests. I'm wondering if nettles has ever harmed them..by changing their body chemistry on them.
 
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Benzo's downregulates the GABA receptors, to upregulate the GABA-a receptors again there are some natural herbs possible:
Kudzo, and ginkgo biloba.

Stinging nettle root, but not the leaf, have anti androgen and anti estrogen abilities that could influence hormone metabolism so that it increases pregenelone, resulting in higher libido. pregnenolone blocks the stress hormones.
 
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I think a serotonin boost would be welcome but I much prefer a balance of things.
You dont want a serotonin boost. SSRi long term use makes the brain counteract by depleting serotonin. Then with withdrawal the brain makes more serotonin again, and this causes fluctuations in Ser levels resulting in the symptoms.
 

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