Higher Testosterone Levels Are Associated With Unfaithful Behavior In Men

[shine]

Men's drive is to have as much sex with as many different women as possible. Testosterone certainly plays a role in this, and the fact that men's levels of testosterone are something like 17-20x the amount a woman has also explains our much more frequent sexual impulses that also don't require "warming up."

Just because this isn't an option for 99% of men doesn't mean that the impulse isn't there. The male imperative is to spread their seed as far and wide as possible. Men who don't use porn, or don't masturbate regularly, are the exception, not the rule. And the vast majority of men just accept porn/masturbation as their fate; this doesn't mean that, if given the choice, they wouldn't have sex every single time instead.

Cortisol may encourage "cheating," but who's to say that the cortisol isn't a result of men trying to constantly suppress/repress an innate, powerful part of their biology? The constant stress of feeling guilt/shame for desiring other women as your body continues to produce massive amounts of sperm on a daily basis, meant for impregnating as many different women as possible?

Guinea pig harem says 'hello Sooty'

Sooty. A true Casanova Hero. 24 females in one night. Lmao. That's my boy!

@Momado965

Too bad polygamy is written off in western society. Labeled as completely "misogynistic." People completely overlook the fact that traditionally, the man was expected to provide and care for all of his wives. It isn't a brutal and oppressive relationship as people like to believe.

I've simply accepted that polygamy is not a part of this culture, and likely never will be. People just don't accept it, to their own detriment. The only other option is to stay single and make it clear that you don't want to be monogamous because you have no intention of limiting yourself to one partner. Or accept monogamy with the full knowledge that it isn't natural -- particularly for a man.

I think women being monogamous to a man is much more natural than the other way around. Polygamy makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Women have no seed to spread. They require aid and resources and provisioning. Men are the ones who provide it, and they do have a seed to spread. If a woman is getting protection and provisioning and a high quality "seed" from a man, there is no reason for her to be unfaithful.

The man's reason to be unfaithful is that he makes sperm on a daily basis and by impregnating more women he increases his genetic legacy.

Women want the best quality seed they can get. Their investment in sex is far, FAR greater than a man's, as they'll be stuck 9 months carrying a baby and then burdened with birthing it and raising it thereafter, which traditionally requires the assistance of a man for protection/provisioning.

Women sharing a high value man: everyone wins. They get the high quality "seed," and he gets to spread his seed as far as he can. They get the security/provisioning and parental investment as well. Women do not lose out on anything if the man has sex with other women, as long as his investment in her and provisioning for her is constant.

Men lose out on a lot when women cheat: certainty about their Paternity. The ultimate loss for a man, sexually, would be unknowingly raising the progeny of another man. This is simply not a reality the other way around. Women being unfaithful to a man who is provisioning for her is far, FAR more threatening to a man, than a man being unfaithful to a woman. The biggest threat in that case would be him withdrawing his provisioning from one woman and giving it to another....a situation that is entirely avoided in polygamy, where it's accepted that there's more than enough provisioning to go around, and withdrawing it from one woman just to be with another is not necessary.

From a purely evolutionary perspective, it makes a lot of sense. But most people will be totally disgusted/repulsed by this idea.

....and yet, those same people will continue to masturbate/use porn/cheat/lie in some capacity. Cuckoldry also is likely much more common in this case; women going for the high quality "seed" while finding another guy to raise the baby after the fact. In polygamy that is mostly avoided, as the high value man who has multiple wives has already proven his quality. I think it's fair to say that, in general, women want men who other women want.

Anyway, it's all just conjecture. Things are not changing in the west any time soon, if ever.

Best we can do as men is be aware of our own sexual imperative, and not lie to ourselves. When you're single is the best time to get in touch with yourself as a man and really understand who you are. Once you're in the influence of a monogamous relationship, true, clear self-perspective can be harder to maintain.

Interesting about your relatives! And it's good to hear. I'm sorry for the stupidity you've suffered from other people who don't understand.

Are you Rollo? lol

 

[ShotTrue]

Men's drive is to have as much sex with as many different women as possible. Testosterone certainly plays a role in this, and the fact that men's levels of testosterone are something like 17-20x the amount a woman has also explains our much more frequent sexual impulses that also don't require "warming up."

Just because this isn't an option for 99% of men doesn't mean that the impulse isn't there. The male imperative is to spread their seed as far and wide as possible. Men who don't use porn, or don't masturbate regularly, are the exception, not the rule. And the vast majority of men just accept porn/masturbation as their fate; this doesn't mean that, if given the choice, they wouldn't have sex every single time instead.

Cortisol may encourage "cheating," but who's to say that the cortisol isn't a result of men trying to constantly suppress/repress an innate, powerful part of their biology? The constant stress of feeling guilt/shame for desiring other women as your body continues to produce massive amounts of sperm on a daily basis, meant for impregnating as many different women as possible?

Guinea pig harem says 'hello Sooty'

Sooty. A true Casanova Hero. 24 females in one night. Lmao. That's my boy!

@Momado965

Too bad polygamy is written off in western society. Labeled as completely "misogynistic." People completely overlook the fact that traditionally, the man was expected to provide and care for all of his wives. It isn't a brutal and oppressive relationship as people like to believe.

I've simply accepted that polygamy is not a part of this culture, and likely never will be. People just don't accept it, to their own detriment. The only other option is to stay single and make it clear that you don't want to be monogamous because you have no intention of limiting yourself to one partner. Or accept monogamy with the full knowledge that it isn't natural -- particularly for a man.

I think women being monogamous to a man is much more natural than the other way around. Polygamy makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Women have no seed to spread. They require aid and resources and provisioning. Men are the ones who provide it, and they do have a seed to spread. If a woman is getting protection and provisioning and a high quality "seed" from a man, there is no reason for her to be unfaithful.

The man's reason to be unfaithful is that he makes sperm on a daily basis and by impregnating more women he increases his genetic legacy.

Women want the best quality seed they can get. Their investment in sex is far, FAR greater than a man's, as they'll be stuck 9 months carrying a baby and then burdened with birthing it and raising it thereafter, which traditionally requires the assistance of a man for protection/provisioning.

Women sharing a high value man: everyone wins. They get the high quality "seed," and he gets to spread his seed as far as he can. They get the security/provisioning and parental investment as well. Women do not lose out on anything if the man has sex with other women, as long as his investment in her and provisioning for her is constant.

Men lose out on a lot when women cheat: certainty about their Paternity. The ultimate loss for a man, sexually, would be unknowingly raising the progeny of another man. This is simply not a reality the other way around. Women being unfaithful to a man who is provisioning for her is far, FAR more threatening to a man, than a man being unfaithful to a woman. The biggest threat in that case would be him withdrawing his provisioning from one woman and giving it to another....a situation that is entirely avoided in polygamy, where it's accepted that there's more than enough provisioning to go around, and withdrawing it from one woman just to be with another is not necessary.

From a purely evolutionary perspective, it makes a lot of sense. But most people will be totally disgusted/repulsed by this idea.

....and yet, those same people will continue to masturbate/use porn/cheat/lie in some capacity. Cuckoldry also is likely much more common in this case; women going for the high quality "seed" while finding another guy to raise the baby after the fact. In polygamy that is mostly avoided, as the high value man who has multiple wives has already proven his quality. I think it's fair to say that, in general, women want men who other women want.

Anyway, it's all just conjecture. Things are not changing in the west any time soon, if ever.

Best we can do as men is be aware of our own sexual imperative, and not lie to ourselves. When you're single is the best time to get in touch with yourself as a man and really understand who you are. Once you're in the influence of a monogamous relationship, true, clear self-perspective can be harder to maintain.

Interesting about your relatives! And it's good to hear. I'm sorry for the stupidity you've suffered from other people who don't understand.

Another problem is that society has the numbers, police, "moral standard" etc thus you are forced into complying. That's why privacy and money are to your benefit.

Also most middle class men can only afford to raise children with one woman, or at least that's how our society is set up

 

[pepsi]

Higher testosterone is an indirect cause of cheating.
Men cheat because the wife stops giving sex, or stops giving it as often.
If the man is given food and sex, he wont cheat.

 

[Cirion]

If the man is given food and sex, he wont cheat.

Lol, there's a lot of truth to that. The only thing I'd add is a woman that is no more than "normal" amount of crazy =P Don't stick your **** in crazy, as they say... (I learnt this lesson the hard way, d'oh!)

 

[Jib]

Are you Rollo? lol

No. I'm his brother, Giorno.

Just kidding :p

 

[schultz]

As a man, monogamy is important to me for the sake of my children. Sure, I could 'spread my seed' like ya'll are talking about, but I would like to be there to make sure my children grow up healthy and strong, not dysfunctional and sickly. IMO it is incredibly important for children to have both parents there with them. I am choosing quality offspring, not quantity.

I've simply accepted that polygamy is not a part of this culture, and likely never will be. People just don't accept it, to their own detriment.

Presumably, wouldn't there then be loads of men without mates? This doesn't strike me as a good thing since men without women will form groups and cause trouble.

 

[Cirion]

I don't think most of us are debating whether or not monogamy is "good for society". I would think that most people probably would agree monogamy is good for society overall, not to mention more realistic (Most people can't afford the time and/or money to handle more than one wife!)

Just saying that men are hardwired to not be monogamistic, that's all. Just like how it's in a woman's DNA to want to be a branch swinger and keep "trading up" to a "higher value man". Any man that says they aren't even tempted if another opportunity arose while married is lying. Of course, what someone ultimately does with that temptation, depends on the guy of course, and certainly, some men do indeed decide preserving their marriage is better than a day or two of fun with someone they just met. I myself ultimately desire one person probably for long term/life, if it's the right person, but to deny that there are biological urges to do otherwise would be folly. Even the most hardcore of religious folk know not to let themselves be alone in a compromising situation with a beautiful woman, or risk doing something they regret.

 

[Jib]

As a man, monogamy is important to me for the sake of my children. Sure, I could 'spread my seed' like ya'll are talking about, but I would like to be there to make sure my children grow up healthy and strong, not dysfunctional and sickly. IMO it is incredibly important for children to have both parents there with them. I am choosing quality offspring, not quantity.

Presumably, wouldn't there then be loads of men without mates? This doesn't strike me as a good thing since men without women will form groups and cause trouble.

Admittedly, with birth control, seed spreading is a paradox. It's tricking our biology into thinking we're fulfilling an imperative when all we're doing is ejaculating into a piece of latex.

Although the only guys I've known who are actually out "spreading their seed" are generally completely amoral, never use condoms, and have a fair amount of illegitimate children. It may not be "fair" that guys like these are the ones who's genes are spreading into eternity. But such is life. And at least according to their genes, they're fulfilling their imperative, even if they're piss poor examples of human beings.

Similarly, monogamy seems pointless to me without the goal of having and raising a family. I do believe it is important for raising a family. And I will stand by that 100%. I too believe it's important for children to have two healthy parents. Incredibly important.

But without kids, or any intention of having them? What is the point of monogamy? Reproductively, none. But I suppose the emotional support and sense of security it can give a person is one reason. With how fickle people can be, sexually, however, it seems a tenuous stability at best.

Back in the day, just a couple generations ago, you just had kids. And a lot of them. That's just what you did. Get married and have a ton of babies.

Things have changed very, very drastically in just a couple generations. Sex has become less of a matter of reproduction and more a matter of personal identity and ego gratification. This is very thin and dangerous ice to be skating on.

Personally, knowing I don't want kids, I'm happier being single, and beyond that, not even hooking up with anyone. It is just too stressful for me. I'm happier being a recluse and doing whatever I want with my time. I really respect people who are in healthy monogamous relationships and are raising healthy children. To me, I think that is just great. Had I had a different life as a child perhaps that's a path I would've taken myself.

Anyway, back to "cheating"; I think men should just stay single unless they know they want to raise a family. If you're looking for a girl to be the mother of your children, that's a different ball game. I don't see the point in committing to "monogamy" unless you have intentions to have a wife to raise a family with.

There's a whole nother discussion about sex declining in marriages. Won't get into that now.

I remember being a kid. I was happy splashing around in the bathtub and smashing action figures together. Epic battles between good and evil. Then puberty happened. A curse, I tell ye. A curse worse than death!

 

[Cirion]

Some women don't want kids either, although they appear to be quite rare. I also don't really want kids. Nothing against them, I'm sure they can be great for sure, but it's just something that's not really appealed to me lately. Perhaps part of it is the added stress which I simply don't need in this point in my life. Perhaps my view will change once I achieve early financial freedom and have a lot more free time? And when I'm healthier? Who knows.

 

[shine]

Some women don't want kids either, although they appear to be quite rare. I also don't really want kids. Nothing against them, I'm sure they can be great for sure, but it's just something that's not really appealed to me lately. Perhaps part of it is the added stress which I simply don't need in this point in my life. Perhaps my view will change once I achieve early financial freedom and have a lot more free time? And when I'm healthier? Who knows.

Maybe try increasing your calories!

 

[jet9]

from what I have found.....increased androgens leads to more attraction from the opposite sex. Since I started working out and really following Peat/@haidut/roddy/@Hans suggestions, I don't really need to apply myself anymore. Women come to me.

Not trying to sound ego-istic here.... If I was in a relationship, it would sure make it harder for me to be faithful (completely excluding the emotional aspect which is a huge part of any relationship).. I'm speaking from a single, 30 year old male perspective though....

Could you tell what foods you eat ?
cause peat diet varies greatly here :)

 

[schultz]

I'm surprised you guys don't want children. Being a father has been the greatest experience of my life. Nothing even comes close to it. But I guess we're all different.

But without kids, or any intention of having them? What is the point of monogamy? Reproductively, none. But I suppose the emotional support and sense of security it can give a person is one reason. With how fickle people can be, sexually, however, it seems a tenuous stability at best.

I agree. I don't see any other reason to get married other than having kids together.

I remember being a kid. I was happy splashing around in the bathtub and smashing action figures together. Epic battles between good and evil.

Being a child was great, though I have found immense joy watching my own kids do the same sorts of things.

 

[Inaut]

Could you tell what foods you eat ?
cause peat diet varies greatly here :)

Morning starts with orange juice/half freshly squeezed/half store bought for simplicity first thing after showering
Followed by two raw egg yolks
followed by a quart of milk with honey and instant coffee

maybe a few dates or small snack until lunch.

which consists of some sort of starch (potatoes, sweet potato or rice vermicelli) and sometimes ground beef if I have some left over from the night before. cup of OJ to wash it down

that tides me over until when i get home from work. Ill have some honey and OJ before going to the gym.

upon returning from the gym its another pint of OJ with dextrose and supps. snack sometimes glass of milk before dinner or skyr with orange marmalde and dark chocolate

then its dinner time----carrot (sometimes the salad), more starch (with fat and salt) and meat with another glass of OJ and mushroom soup a couple times a week.

snack before retiring which usually consists of fruit (pineapple, blueberries or tropical fruits.) some more chocolate and honey. maybe another glass of milk before bed.

hope that is detailed enough?

 

[Stramonium]

The more I think about the more unnatural it seems to be monogamous. The whole idea of being unfaithful is kinda ridiculous, and of course if you have plenty of Androgens and energy you will want to reproduce

 

[Inaut]

i can appreciate the idea of monogamy if I found a woman that meets my standards.

i think i'm the kind of dude that can support multiple women mentally, physically and emotionally, just not financially sucks because I was planning on moving to Utah and changing my religion (on paper). joke but kind of serious

 

[schultz]

The whole idea of being unfaithful is kinda ridiculous

Using the word unfaithful implies there was some dishonesty. As long as you are honest with each individual about your intentions then I do not see a problem. Being unfaithful when you're married to someone is a POS move if your partner thinks you are in a monogamous relationship. If you don't want to be monogamous, then just let your partner know. If he or she doesn't like the idea of you sleeping around, then either commit to that person if you think it is worth it or move on.

 

[ebs]

In my personal experience, having high androgens simply amplifies your personality and brings it out fully. For some, this results in them simply acting on their desires which they could not before which may include things like being unfaithful, but for others, if they were genuinely a good person, it tends to make them more of one.

I see more women than men with this behaviour so it may have more to do with estrogen + dopamine.

High androgen guys that I know are focussed and relaxed and not behaving like animals who can't inhibit their urges. Many just have one woman who they are content with so the need to cheat probably has more to do with some sort of personality disorder (and possibly higher estrogen with the 'insatiable desire').

A good example is Dutch kickboxer Rico Verhoeven. World champion fighter but outside of the ring a very down to earth and relaxed guy who is a family man and happily maried for several years.

 

[postman]

lmao @ the muslims in this thread

 

[Vinero]

Does DHT increase cheating?

 

[TripleOG]

Cheating Is Driven By Cortisol, Not Testosterone

He also discussed this on the recent stream with Danny.

Around the 1:11:00 mark.