High Vitamin D Has The Same PTH-countering Effects As High Calcium, Right?

[YourUniverse]

The most important part of getting lots of calcium is to balance the calcium: phosphorus ratio which is to lower PTH, right? Doesnt high vitamin D also do this?

Could high vitamin D be an option for the dairy-impaired? As geographical areas of low vitamin D tend to have the highest dairy intake (Canada, Scandinavia).

If this was reversed, like near the equator, calcium needs would drop? One could get by with a less favourable Ca:P

Am I oversimplifying?

 

[Mito]

The most important part of getting lots of calcium is to balance the calcium: phosphorus ratio which is to lower PTH, right? Doesnt high vitamin D also do this?

Could high vitamin D be an option for the dairy-impaired? As geographical areas of low vitamin D tend to have the highest dairy intake (Canada, Scandinavia).

If this was reversed, like near the equator, calcium needs would drop? One could get by with a less favourable Ca:P

Am I oversimplifying?

Maybe more than you want to know about the subject here https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/08/20/the-evolution-of-diverse-vitamin-d-requirements/ and https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/05/11/the-daily-lipid-podcast-9-balancing/

 

[Ella]

One could get by with a less favourable Ca:P

You can get away with higher phosphate if eating lots of fructose and sugar. Rhonda Patrick recently on Josh Rogan Experience #773 said the following about "ATP Trapping", highlighting that it is something we need to avoid. From the show's notes.

• When you eat refined sugars and then take it away, the fructose is only metabolized in the liver, trapping ATP, that sends a message to your brain that makes your brain think you haven’t been
  • High Fructose Corn Syrup is worse, as it is all Fructose
  • It is an irritant to your gut and way more ATP trapping
• Totally different with sugar in fruit when eating with the fiber, etc.

Gut bacteria like fiber, by eating low fiber leads them to starve and start eating your gut bacteria instead

• • Certain bacteria (Candida Bacteria) can thrive with low fiber and swim up to small intestine to eat the sugar you are eating (bacterial overgrowth)
  • When this happens, it release Zonulin, opens the barriers in gt barrier (so does gluten) leading to bloating/inflammation
  • Aim for lots of varieties of fiber/plants

It is a shame Rhonda is not digging deeper and questioning dogma. Fiber is more of an irritant than sugar which is quickly absorbed high in the gut. I have a feeling she may view serotonin as the happy molecule as no mention of its role in when gut is irritated. Sugar in contrast to fiber does not hang around long enough to be an irritant. Fiber hangs around long enough to become fodder for bugs, potentially eliciting a cascade of inflammatory molecules increasing the potential of LPS translocating systemically.

Rhonda makes "ATP Trapping" sound deleterious, something to be avoided at all cost. Just because she is excellent at reciting mechanisms, does not mean she is right. As Peat warns, when ~80% of what is published in the literature is wrong or can't be trusted; we need to err on the side of caution in making assumptions.

Here's a paper looking at the regenerative aspect of "ATP Trapping" and how sugar/fructose is able to reprogram dying cells. Any molecule or substance which is able to rescue dying cells deserves the highest respect.

....TNF induces classical apoptosis that can be easily quantified by measuring the LDH release from dying cells at late time points 4 11. Fructose (50 mM) inhibited TNF-induced cell death by >95% (Fig. 1 C), and this prevention was paralleled by a block of oligonucleosomal DNA fragmentation (Fig. 1 D). All ATP-depleting carbohydrates inhibited apoptosis, whereas the nondepleting sugars had no such effect (Fig. 2). Notably, the potency of different sugars with regard to ATP depletion correlated with the concentration dependence of their apoptosis inhibition (Fig. 1B and Fig. C). Experiments with eight different carbohydrates showed that TNF-induced cell death was not significantly affected when ATP was maintained above a threshold level of ∼40–50% of control. Complete inhibition was observed at ATP levels of 15–20% (Fig. 2).

Even when caspase activity is inhibited, TNF-exposed cells may still have seriously damaged mitochondria and die by delayed necrosis 41. Therefore, we examined cytochrome c release into the cytosol as a parameter for mitochondrial damage. Immunocytochemical analysis showed that cytochrome c was released into the cytosol and the nuclei ∼8 h after incubation of hepatocytes with TNF. At this stage, chromatin was still noncondensed, but plasma membrane blebs started to form (Fig. 5 A). Chromatin and released cytochrome c were sequestered into apoptotic bodies 2–6 h later. Fructose completely prevented all apoptotic changes, including cytochrome c redistribution (Fig. 5 B). Similar data were obtained when the amount of cytosolic cytochrome c was determined by immunoblot: the mitochondrial intermembrane protein accumulated in the cytosol 6–9 h after stimulation with TNF. Accumulation of cytosolic cytochrome c was blocked by fructose (Fig. 5 C) or tagatose (not shown).

Metabolic Depletion of Atp by Fructose Inversely Controls Cd95- and Tumor Necrosis Factor Receptor 1–Mediated Hepatic Apoptosis

Back to my marmalade making.

 

[Spondive]

The most important part of getting lots of calcium is to balance the calcium: phosphorus ratio which is to lower PTH, right? Doesnt high vitamin D also do this?

Could high vitamin D be an option for the dairy-impaired? As geographical areas of low vitamin D tend to have the highest dairy intake (Canada, Scandinavia).

If this was reversed, like near the equator, calcium needs would drop? One could get by with a less favourable Ca:P

Am I oversimplifying?

No I think that is a very good question