High Temperature/metabolism And Still Losing Hair

[Bushido1]

Hello everyone,

Lately, I have been measuring my oral temperature at around wake up 36.6C (97.9F) and after breakfast 37C (98.6F). Which points in the direction of a healthy and well functioning metabolism.

The problem is that I am still losing massive amounts of hair. I see them in my pillow, shower, keyboard, everywhere! And my hairline has physically receded about 0.5cm or so in the last few months. I also experience chronic itching in my scalp.

When I got into Peating it sounded like once my temperatures were consistently high (which they are) I would stop losing hair. But this has been the opposite for me.

What else could I do besides focusing on my temperatures in order to stop my hair loss?

Anyone has experienced the same situation where they have still lost hair while having the temperatures constantly 'normal'?

 

[Cirion]

97.9F oral temperature is still considered hypothyroid.

97.9F temperature would be considered euthyroid if it's measured from the armpit, which tends to measure 0.5F colder than orally. So you want 97.8-98.2F if measured in the armpit, but 98.4-98.6F if measured under the tongue.

So, there is still work to be done and may be the reason for your issues.

It's definitely hard to get to 98.4F+ consistently every morning on waking up before food. I haven't achieved it yet myself, but it's the ultimate goal and will begin to heal any issues going on including hair loss.

Other than that, CO2 levels are also key. You need an expensive device called a capnograph for this though (But I'm planning on finally pulling the trigger and buying one soon myself).

 

[tallglass13]

I am beginning to become very skeptical of the RP diet for hair growth. From what I gathered , even the forum member with the best/highest metabolism and strictest diet, has not regrown any hair. I am even seeing more researchers noting that hyperthyroid burns out the hair. I work in the medical field, and I remember one patient that had clinical hyperthyroidism, and his hair was being wasted for energy and was very very thin. I am also having a heck of time losing any weight on RP diet. My temps go up to 99.0 even after a meal mid day, HR is 86.

 

[Cirion]

I am beginning to become very skeptical of the RP diet for hair growth. From what I gathered , even the forum member with the best/highest metabolism and strictest diet, has not regrown any hair. I am even seeing more researchers noting that hyperthyroid burns out the hair. I work in the medical field, and I remember one patient that had clinical hyperthyroidism, and his hair was being wasted for energy and was very very thin. I am also having a heck of time losing any weight on RP diet. My temps go up to 99.0 even after a meal mid day, HR is 86.

When I first started the RP diet more than a year ago, I started to lose faith in it as well, because my temps and pulses were also excellent (and still are) during the day time. Then I realized what actually matters, is what your temperatures and pulses are the moment you wake up and before you eat anything. These are actually the true markers of metabolism. I no longer track temps and pulses during the middle of the day and only care about what it is when I wake up.

Granted, I haven't had a problem with hair loss, but everything does point back to metabolism, so I feel reasonably confident in saying that get waking temps to 98.4F+ and pulses up to 80+ waking also, and that all problems including hair loss will likely resolve over time.

Why do I say waking metrics matter the most? Well to make a long story short it shows how good the quality of your sleep was. There are studies that show that poor quality sleep raises insulin resistances, lowers androgens, increases stress hormones. If you can't get sleep quality up, it doesn't matter how good your diet and lifestyle is during the rest of your waking hours, and I can attest to this fact personally.

 

[rawmeat]

scalp itch is the culprit.

Try anti-fungal shampoos or acv or zix.

 

[lampofred]

High temps and pulse will accelerate hair loss if you're burning fat instead of sugar for energy.

 

[Cirion]

High temps and pulse will accelerate hair loss if you're burning fat instead of sugar for energy.

In my experience you can't get a high (waking) temperature / pulse when burning excess FFA's. You may be able to achieve high temps during the day doing so, but trust me, you can't get a high waking (98.4F+) temp from a high fat diet / caloric deficit (which would increase FFA's also).

 

[lampofred]

In my experience you can't get a high (waking) temperature / pulse when burning excess FFA's. You may be able to achieve high temps during the day doing so, but trust me, you can't get a high waking (98.4F+) temp from a high fat diet / caloric deficit (which would increase FFA's also).

Cancer: Disorder and Energy

"The great energetic inefficiency of the cancer metabolism, which causes it to produce a large amount of heat and to cause systemic stress, failure of immunity, and weight loss, is because it synthesizes fat from glucose and amino acids, and then oxidizes the fat as if it were diabetic."

I'm not discounting your tracking man, but I just doubt you're burning glucose into CO2 even with such high waking temps if you have issues like chronic fatigue.

I think the reason you don't have a problem with this fat-burning might be that this synthesized fat is fully saturated or omega-9, whereas OP is probably burning more PUFA by raising his temps.

 

[Cirion]

Cancer: Disorder and Energy

"The great energetic inefficiency of the cancer metabolism, which causes it to produce a large amount of heat and to cause systemic stress, failure of immunity, and weight loss, is because it synthesizes fat from glucose and amino acids, and then oxidizes the fat as if it were diabetic."

I'm not discounting your tracking man, but I just doubt you're burning glucose into CO2 even with such high waking temps if you have issues like chronic fatigue.

I think the reason you don't have a problem with this fat-burning might be that this synthesized fat is fully saturated or omega-9, whereas OP is probably burning more PUFA by raising his temps.

I don't have chronic fatigue on days I have 98.4F+ waking temp. That's how I know waking temp is the key to almost everything. I only have fatigue when I don't reach this number. On days I am in the 97's are not good days. When I have days as low as 97.6F, I frequently have to take a vacation day from work. I had a day a couple weeks ago where I was 97.3F waking up and I basically felt like I had a mental disorder that day it was so bad. It really matters that much. You are right though, not all my glucose goes to CO2, and that's why my carbohydrate requirements are quite high, in order to get to 98.4F+ waking temps.

And yes, any excess carbs spill into the De Novo Lipogenesis pathway which generates saturated fats which are far less harmful than PUFA's from body fat stores. But even so, I have found that actually eating saturated fats in excess is actually harmful. Some coconut oil is likely fine, but other than that, I don't think fat is conducive to building metabolic rate from my experiences.

 

[lampofred]

I don't have chronic fatigue on days I have 98.4F+ waking temp. That's how I know waking temp is the key to almost everything. I only have fatigue when I don't reach this number. On days I am in the 97's are not good days. When I have days as low as 97.6F, I frequently have to take a vacation day from work. I had a day a couple weeks ago where I was 97.3F waking up and I basically felt like I had a mental disorder that day it was so bad. It really matters that much. You are right though, not all my glucose goes to CO2, and that's why my carbohydrate requirements are quite high, in order to get to 98.4F+ waking temps.

That's what he means by "great energetic inefficiency" though, carbohydrate requirements are extremely high just for normal function because instead of glucose going into CO2 and releasing 20 ATP or something, it's going into lactic acid and releasing like 2 ATP and also turning into fat and then being burned, releasing tons of heat and causing weight loss but not giving as much energy as it's supposed to.

That's why I don't think just having high temps is enough to ensure you are not oxidizing fat. But I guess for OP's purpose, eating enough carbs to increase temps will probably stop his hair loss because he will be burning synthesized saturated & omega-9 fat instead of stored PUFA, which will prevent hair damage. Although as a result his energy levels would probably go down.

BTW "cancer" metabolism doesn't actually mean cancer, all low thyroid metabolism is "cancer" or "diabetic" metabolism. Aspirin fixes it.

 

[Cirion]

That's what he means by "great energetic inefficiency" though, carbohydrate requirements are extremely high just for normal function because instead of glucose going into CO2 and releasing 20 ATP or something, it's going into lactic acid and releasing like 2 ATP and also turning into fat and then being burned, releasing tons of heat and causing weight loss but not giving as much energy as it's supposed to.

That's why I don't think just having high temps is enough to ensure you are not oxidizing fat. But for OP's purpose, eating enough carbs to increase temps will probably stop his hair loss because he will be burning synthesized saturated & omega-9 fat instead of stored PUFA, which will prevent hair damage.

BTW "cancer" metabolism doesn't actually mean cancer, all low thyroid metabolism is "cancer" or "diabetic" metabolism. Aspirin and T3 fix it.

Ok, but now that's getting into details the OP probably doesn't need or care about. The moral of the story I'm trying to provide is that proper diet (high carb, low fat) and tweaking things such that waking temperature is in the euthyroid range (which could include T3 and aspirin also, among other things) will begin to make structural changes in the body that will slowly recover glucose metabolism, reverse insulin resistance, lose body fat, and in his case, regrow hair.

Glucose metabolism losing body fat and all that. None of this is restored overnight. One day of achieving 98.4F waking temp isn't going to reverse it, but it starts to move it in the right direction as long as it is consistent.

 

[lampofred]

Ok, but now that's getting into details the OP probably doesn't need or care about. The moral of the story I'm trying to provide is that proper diet (high carb, low fat) and tweaking things such that waking temperature is in the euthyroid range (which could include T3 and aspirin also, among other things) will begin to make structural changes in the body that will slowly recover glucose metabolism, reverse insulin resistance, lose body fat, and in his case, regrow hair.

Glucose metabolism losing body fat and all that. None of this is restored overnight. One day of achieving 98.4F waking temp isn't going to reverse it, but it starts to move it in the right direction as long as it is consistent.

I guess I wasn't straight to the point, but what I was trying to say is that I think a better approach would be to lower FFA first and focus on temps second, because even though focusing on temps above all by increasing carb intake might protect hair (but honestly probably less than aspirin, niacinamide would) it might shift his metabolism in the inefficient, cancerous direction because of a lactic acid build-up.

The ample carb approach might be less dangerous for you since you meticulously track everything.

 

[redsun]

In my experience you can't get a high (waking) temperature / pulse when burning excess FFA's. You may be able to achieve high temps during the day doing so, but trust me, you can't get a high waking (98.4F+) temp from a high fat diet / caloric deficit (which would increase FFA's also).

Actually I had 98.6+ in the mornings when I was doing carnivore(high fat and protein of course, 50g carb/day) a few years ago. I never knew what it was like to be cold until after hopping off carnivore. That's likely because my diet was very low PUFA(no significant PUFA sources) as well as the high fat diet which means the fat on the body gets circulated quicker so I think PUFA is removed quicker and things like carnivore can drop weight as well.
because you eat less. Another thing, I stopped getting fevers after stopping carnivore. I think I actually lost the ability to have a fever, which is bizarre but I would say that's probably a bad thing. Now when I get sick my "fever" can barely go over 100, never close to 102-104. Who knows may be its not even related.

 

[Cirion]

I guess I wasn't straight to the point, but what I was trying to say is that I think a better approach would be to lower FFA first and focus on temps second, because even though focusing on temps above all by increasing carb intake might protect hair (but honestly probably less than aspirin, niacinamide would) but shift his metabolism in the cancerous direction because of a lactic acid build-up.

The ample carb approach might be less dangerous for you since you meticulously track everything.

The thing is, we are actually in agreement pretty much. I think you are just confused that lowering FFA's is somehow separate from temps. It's not. If you lower FFA's, waking body temps will increase, they are directly connected.

Where I guess you may be confused is that increasing carb intake is somehow dangerous due to the lactic acid that might be produces from carbohydrate intake. This is infact far less dangerous than the effects on the body by NOT eating enough carbs, which is indeed a higher requirement. Yes the lactic acid isn't ideal but you have to accept that it's gonna be there for a while, it's just how it goes. Even if one doesn't track data, the amount of carbs I eat is so high, I really doubt anyone would exceed what I eat on a daily basis even with an ad-libitum diet lol.

I would definitely recommend everyone track data. There is literally a 0% chance I'd get better if I didn't. It's in fact why I spun my wheels most of the first year or two in Peatland.

 

[Cirion]

Actually I had 98.6+ in the mornings when I was doing carnivore(high fat and protein of course, 50g carb/day) a few years ago. I never knew what it was like to be cold until after hopping off carnivore. That's likely because my diet was very low PUFA(no significant PUFA sources) as well as the high fat diet which means the fat on the body gets circulated quicker so I think PUFA is removed quicker and things like carnivore can drop weight as well.
because you eat less. Another thing, I stopped getting fevers after stopping carnivore. I think I actually lost the ability to have a fever, which is bizarre but I would say that's probably a bad thing. Now when I get sick my "fever" can barely go over 100, never close to 102-104. Who knows may be its not even related.

I have to be honest I find this hard to believe but then I remember how young you are. I think being young makes you able to get away with a lot more. I did actually do Keto myself many years ago, but back then I had no interest in tracking temps/pulses so no clue where I was at in that regard. Also, did the temp go down after eating in the morning? Sometimes, a high morning temp can be due to stress hormones. I really really doubt anyone over age 30-40 can get those kind of temps on carnivore/keto style eating. However, I'm always open to be proven wrong, so that I can refine my theories. Measuring CO2 of course would really seal the deal.

 

[redsun]

I have to be honest I find this hard to believe but then I remember how young you are. I think being young makes you able to get away with a lot more. I did actually do Keto myself many years ago, but back then I had no interest in tracking temps/pulses so no clue where I was at in that regard. Also, did the temp go down after eating in the morning? Sometimes, a high morning temp can be due to stress hormones. I really really doubt anyone over age 30-40 can get those kind of temps on carnivore/keto style eating. However, I'm always open to be proven wrong, so that I can refine my theories. Measuring CO2 of course would really seal the deal.

It has a lot more to do with exclusion of bad things then eating "the right things". This is how I first learned about nutrition, get rid of the bad. In other words, got rid of pufas, fiber, and starches and severely limited sugars which at the time I thought were all bad.

 

[Cirion]

It has a lot more to do with exclusion of bad things then eating "the right things". This is how I first learned about nutrition, get rid of the bad. In other words, got rid of pufas, fiber, and starches and severely limited sugars which at the time I thought were all bad.

Well on the first statement that we do agree on. But for me (muscle) meat is the bad thing =P So that's why I have such a hard time believing lol. But also because the diet was so low carb...

 

[redsun]

Well on the first statement that we do agree on. But for me (muscle) meat is the bad thing =P So that's why I have such a hard time believing lol. But also because the diet was so low carb...

I had 2 tbsp sugar in my morning coffee and my breakfast which was usually sheep cheese and some high grade salami, very high saturated fat breakfast. Had like 60mg caffeine with butter in the morning in the coffee as well as lactose from a couple cups of milk a day. Definitely low carb by normal standards but somehow I got by

 

[Cirion]

I had 2 tbsp sugar in my morning coffee and my breakfast which was usually sheep cheese and some high grade salami, very high saturated fat breakfast. which had like 60mg caffeine with butter as well as sugar from a couple cups of milk a day. Definitely low carb by normal standards but somehow I got by.

It's possible my temps were high on keto. I did seemingly well for awhile. Hard to say. I was lean back then though.

So worth noting, is that I think leaner people can get away with higher fat intakes. I can definitely say I tolerated higher fat better when I was leaner. It makes sense when you think about it. FFA's will be naturally higher in fatter people. Adding more fat, even SFA's, will just dilute the ability to handle carbs even further still. But if you're lean with very little FFA's floating around, then it's no biggie to throw some dietary fat in the mix. I very briefly played with higher fat intakes a month ago or so and it didn't end well for me at all, I felt very serotonergic, depression, awful waking body temps, an absolute dependence on caffeine to function etc.

In fact higher fat intakes may indeed be a requirement if you are lean. If your body fat is really low and your dietary fat intake is low, you might signal to your body that you're in a famine and thus lower metabolic rate. If you run out of body fat you basically die, so you do need a minimum reserve. Studies have been done that suggest the optimal fat % intake may be like 30%, but the problem is those studies were done on healthy lean athletic men, so it doesn't apply to people who are obese.

All of that though is speculation for now. When I get lean again, I plan to continue tracking for the forseeable future. Maybe I'll find my fat intake increasing. Who knows.

 

[redsun]

It's possible my temps were high on keto. I did seemingly well for awhile. Hard to say. I was lean back then though.

So worth noting, is that I think leaner people can get away with higher fat intakes. I can definitely say I tolerated higher fat better when I was leaner. It makes sense when you think about it. FFA's will be naturally higher in fatter people. Adding more fat, even SFA's, will just dilute the ability to handle carbs even further still. But if you're lean with very little FFA's floating around, then it's no biggie to throw some dietary fat in the mix. I very briefly played with higher fat intakes a month ago or so and it didn't end well for me at all, I felt very serotonergic, depression, awful waking body temps, an absolute dependence on caffeine to function etc.

In fact higher fat intakes may indeed be a requirement if you are lean. If your body fat is really low and your dietary fat intake is low, you might signal to your body that you're in a famine and thus lower metabolic rate. If you run out of body fat you basically die, so you do need a minimum reserve. Studies have been done that suggest the optimal fat % intake may be like 30%, but the problem is those studies were done on healthy lean athletic men, so it doesn't apply to people who are obese.

All of that though is speculation for now. When I get lean again, I plan to continue tracking for the forseeable future. Maybe I'll find my fat intake increasing. Who knows.

I think its less about being lean and more so about PUFAs. Absolutely the better hormonal environment from being lean makes you burn up calories more rapidly but I think the large saturated fat intake I had in the absence of PUFAs is what made saturated fats so powerful at keeping me warm. I think SFAs in a body loaded with PUFA have a vastly different effect then SFAs in a low PUFA-laden body.