High sugar diet has wrecked my teeth, Decay and dentist say i need filling

[johnsmith]

I also think it's very important to rinse your mouth (especially after drinking something like orange juice) as tankasnowgod said.

Does anyone add baking soda to their orange juice to make it less acidic? Wouldn't this help prevent tooth decay?

Haidut has recommended making mouthwash by adding 5mg of methylene blue to 1 liter of water. I often take a small sip of it and keep it in my mouth for 15 seconds or so. Does anyone think this is a good idea to prevent tooth decay?

What about swishing a drop of vitamin K around in your mouth? Would doing so be beneficial for one's teeth or mostly their gums?

 

[Sefton10]

I also think it's very important to rinse your mouth (especially after drinking something like orange juice) as tankasnowgod said.

Does anyone add baking soda to their orange juice to make it less acidic? Wouldn't this help prevent tooth decay?

Haidut has recommended making mouthwash by adding 5mg of methylene blue to 1 liter of water. I often take a small sip of it and keep it in my mouth for 15 seconds or so. Does anyone think this is a good idea to prevent tooth decay?

What about swishing a drop of vitamin K around in your mouth? Would doing so be beneficial for one's teeth or mostly their gums?

What works for me is a 50/50 mix of Xylitol and Bicarbonate of Soda in a jar. After each meal I just swish half a tsp round my mouth for a few seconds and spit.

 

[schultz]

Sugar doesn't do anything to teeth it's the bacteria that metabolize that sugar and provide acidifying byproducts.

Exactly

so sucrose (table sugar) is safe for teeth? -> because its neutral on ph scale.
I eat sometimes white sugar cubes but not sure this harming my teeth.

Not necessarily. S. Mutans tends to be thought of as the main cavity causing bacteria in the mouth, and it will metabolize sugar to lactic acid. The lactic acid damages the teeth.

So technically, sugar does not harm the teeth directly. Lactic acid damages the teeth. If your mouth was sterile, sugar would have no negative effect. If your mouth is low in S. Mutans, sugar may not have much of an effect (although there are other bacteria that might be almost as bad, IE L. Acidopholus)

it requires one to basically be eating/drinking something every hour throughout the day. because of that the natural saliva doesn't get time to coat the teeth.

Very good point. I think you have it mostly correct (of course there are many variables).

The saliva pH will be back to normal 5 minutes after eating something, so eating every hour might not be too bad but it does increase the amount of challenges to the tooth environment. Sipping an acidic, or sugary drink, throughout the day would be the main problem, or sucking on candy, or getting food stuck in your teeth, as the saliva won't have a chance to properly buffer the mouth. If you're producing a challenge every 5 minutes by sipping a coca cola, then the pH will chronically be under 5.5, but if you drink a coca cola all at once, the pH may bounce back within 5 minutes. If you drink another one 1 hour later the same thing will happen.

I should mention that it has been shown that a starch/sugar combo is worse than just sugar. I think the starch might help the sugar stick more. (apple pie would be acidic + sugar + starch)

Of course there are other variables at play.

Fruits tend to have substances in them that help prevent cavities, even though they can be acidic and sugary.

The bacteria need to stick to the teeth in order to cause the damage. If something prevents this (coffee, cranberry, tea, wine, grapes, cocoa) then damage is minimized.

If you are very healthy and have good saliva then the pH of your mouth might not even drop below 5.5 (the amount needed to cause cavities). I posted a study a few times on different threads where they gave Indian children chocolate and then gave them cheese after to see if the pH in their mouth changed. The cheese actually made the mouth pH slightly basic. So just eating cheese after you eat food will protect your teeth. But one of the interesting things about the study was that for a certain percentage of children (around 30% I think) their mouth pH didn't actually go down very much at all with the chocolate. That means that for this group of kids the sugary chocolate would not cause cavities (at least in that moment in time).

A lot of cheese is actually acidic (including paneer, which was used in the Indian study). I thought about this and the only thing I can think of that is happening is that the calcium is being released from the cheese during chewing, the cheese is swallowed but some calcium is left behind and this is what raises the pH. Cheese of course has the same thing that's used in "GI Tooth Mousse", which is CCP-ACP, which some research suggests can remineralize the enamel.

Edit: Oh one more thing, I read a study that showed that fructose reduces cavities by 30% compared to glucose (xylitol reduced them by 90%, but who's gonna replace all their sugar with xylitol?) Anyway, I recently switched to adding pure fructose to my lattes instead of sucrose. This was not because of the 30% reduction thing, but that is a nice added bonus!

 

[lilsticky]

ive actually read on here that cocoa retains minerals in teeth about half as effectively as fluoride

 

[reaching]

My theory: eating more-> more endotoxins -> more gut inflamation -> inflamed gums-> bad teeth-> dental work and x-rays->brain inflamation->balding

would explain a lot

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Anyway, I recently switched to adding pure fructose to my lattes instead of sucrose. This was not because of the 30% reduction thing, but that is a nice added bonus!

Are you still doing this, schultz? Did you notice any difference( including, but not restricted to, tooth health)?

 

[SOMO]

My teeth feel better without starch.

Starch is non-cariogenic. Only when starch is mixed with sugar does starch cause cavities. Nobody has gotten cavities from potatoes or rice.



OP, get the filling lol. Don't be stupid.

 

[Dr. B]

You might wanna check on your potassium intake. If its too low sugar wont be absorbed well by your oral mucosa, leaving more for the bacteria to feast on. It also lowers PTH which is a must for strong teeth and bones. And go easy on the vitamin D otherwise it'll weaken your teeth. Take it topically and only when youre 100% sure youre deficient.

hows vitamin D weaken teeth? 10000Iu a day is fine?

 

[Dr. B]

Exactly



Not necessarily. S. Mutans tends to be thought of as the main cavity causing bacteria in the mouth, and it will metabolize sugar to lactic acid. The lactic acid damages the teeth.

So technically, sugar does not harm the teeth directly. Lactic acid damages the teeth. If your mouth was sterile, sugar would have no negative effect. If your mouth is low in S. Mutans, sugar may not have much of an effect (although there are other bacteria that might be almost as bad, IE L. Acidopholus)



Very good point. I think you have it mostly correct (of course there are many variables).

The saliva pH will be back to normal 5 minutes after eating something, so eating every hour might not be too bad but it does increase the amount of challenges to the tooth environment. Sipping an acidic, or sugary drink, throughout the day would be the main problem, or sucking on candy, or getting food stuck in your teeth, as the saliva won't have a chance to properly buffer the mouth. If you're producing a challenge every 5 minutes by sipping a coca cola, then the pH will chronically be under 5.5, but if you drink a coca cola all at once, the pH may bounce back within 5 minutes. If you drink another one 1 hour later the same thing will happen.

I should mention that it has been shown that a starch/sugar combo is worse than just sugar. I think the starch might help the sugar stick more. (apple pie would be acidic + sugar + starch)

Of course there are other variables at play.

Fruits tend to have substances in them that help prevent cavities, even though they can be acidic and sugary.

The bacteria need to stick to the teeth in order to cause the damage. If something prevents this (coffee, cranberry, tea, wine, grapes, cocoa) then damage is minimized.

If you are very healthy and have good saliva then the pH of your mouth might not even drop below 5.5 (the amount needed to cause cavities). I posted a study a few times on different threads where they gave Indian children chocolate and then gave them cheese after to see if the pH in their mouth changed. The cheese actually made the mouth pH slightly basic. So just eating cheese after you eat food will protect your teeth. But one of the interesting things about the study was that for a certain percentage of children (around 30% I think) their mouth pH didn't actually go down very much at all with the chocolate. That means that for this group of kids the sugary chocolate would not cause cavities (at least in that moment in time).

A lot of cheese is actually acidic (including paneer, which was used in the Indian study). I thought about this and the only thing I can think of that is happening is that the calcium is being released from the cheese during chewing, the cheese is swallowed but some calcium is left behind and this is what raises the pH. Cheese of course has the same thing that's used in "GI Tooth Mousse", which is CCP-ACP, which some research suggests can remineralize the enamel.

Edit: Oh one more thing, I read a study that showed that fructose reduces cavities by 30% compared to glucose (xylitol reduced them by 90%, but who's gonna replace all their sugar with xylitol?) Anyway, I recently switched to adding pure fructose to my lattes instead of sucrose. This was not because of the 30% reduction thing, but that is a nice added bonus!

matr how do you explain this?

100% grass fed, homogenized ultra pasteurized milk, and most milks in general, they leave an odor in the mouth and a white coating on the tongue

100% grass fed, A2, non homogenized, low temp pasteurized milk, leaves no odor, no film on the tongue or teeth,
and seems like it has a cleaning effect, like i could permanently drink that stuff and not ever need to brush either...

im wondering if it has to do with the A2 aspect..?

i have tried another milk which was non homogenized, low temp pasteurized, organic, but only 50% grass fed (other 50% involved them being fed organic corn and hay and maybe some grains), and wasnt A2.

i actually dont remmber it that milk caused an odor and film buildup on the tongue.

what im wondering is, is it the A2 aspect that determines whether there's buildup on the tongue? or is it the low temp pasteurized, or homogenization that determines this?
i do have a non organic non homogenized, regular pasteurized milk which is not grass fed, and this stuff does seem to cause the buildup as well.

so it seems it could be the pasteurization method... ? or the A2 factor

 

[Beastmode]

matr how do you explain this?

100% grass fed, homogenized ultra pasteurized milk, and most milks in general, they leave an odor in the mouth and a white coating on the tongue

100% grass fed, A2, non homogenized, low temp pasteurized milk, leaves no odor, no film on the tongue or teeth,
and seems like it has a cleaning effect, like i could permanently drink that stuff and not ever need to brush either...

im wondering if it has to do with the A2 aspect..?

i have tried another milk which was non homogenized, low temp pasteurized, organic, but only 50% grass fed (other 50% involved them being fed organic corn and hay and maybe some grains), and wasnt A2.

i actually dont remmber it that milk caused an odor and film buildup on the tongue.

what im wondering is, is it the A2 aspect that determines whether there's buildup on the tongue? or is it the low temp pasteurized, or homogenization that determines this?
i do have a non organic non homogenized, regular pasteurized milk which is not grass fed, and this stuff does seem to cause the buildup as well.

so it seems it could be the pasteurization method... ? or the A2 factor

Peat: "A white coating is often associated with microbes in the small intestine."

I think it comes down to keeping the SI clear. I noticed mine cleared up quite a bit with the addition of raw milk I still continued to drink the usual 1% (6 cups per day) as well.

I also cut my sugar in half the past month from 6 TBS to 3 TBS per day. Also, not going as crazy on the carbs like before.

Still working through this process to figure out how to optimize my system in a way that works for me without being "siloed" into a particular way that people generalize as Peat's "approach!"

 

[Dr. B]

Peat: "A white coating is often associated with microbes in the small intestine."

I think it comes down to keeping the SI clear. I noticed mine cleared up quite a bit with the addition of raw milk I still continued to drink the usual 1% (6 cups per day) as well.

I also cut my sugar in half the past month from 6 TBS to 3 TBS per day. Also, not going as crazy on the carbs like before.

Still working through this process to figure out how to optimize my system in a way that works for me without being "siloed" into a particular way that people generalize as Peat's "approach!"

whats the carbs amount?
Peat doesnt recommend white sugar in general, its just better than white bread, rice, corn etc.
but i was referring to big differences simply from changing the brand and type of milk... these milks are all pasteurized
the grass fed factor doesnt seem to be relevant
its something with the pasteurization method, or homogenization, or A2 vs A1, that causes some milks to cause white buildup and an odor in the mouth/breath, whereas some milks seem to actually clean the mouth. maybe it comes down to homogenization, maybe the larger fat globules and fat masses in non homogenized milks help to clean up the bacteria in the mouth whereas homogenized milk goes straight down since the fat is perfectly blended in it

 

[Beastmode]

whats the carbs amount?
Peat doesnt recommend white sugar in general, its just better than white bread, rice, corn etc.
but i was referring to big differences simply from changing the brand and type of milk... these milks are all pasteurized
the grass fed factor doesnt seem to be relevant
its something with the pasteurization method, or homogenization, or A2 vs A1, that causes some milks to cause white buildup and an odor in the mouth/breath, whereas some milks seem to actually clean the mouth. maybe it comes down to homogenization, maybe the larger fat globules and fat masses in non homogenized milks help to clean up the bacteria in the mouth whereas homogenized milk goes straight down since the fat is perfectly blended in it

I was pushing for 400 g per day, but now I'm closer to 300 and that feels a lot better.

I'm familiar with Peat's stance on white sugar. For me I was trying to bump up my carbs for a while seeing that helped.

My tongue cleared up quite well since drinking the raw milk most likely played a role in that white coating on my tongue to go away. I didn't cut out the 1%, but the addition seemed to help so maybe you're onto something.

I'm going to give it a few months of consistent intake like this, but by this point I'm pretty sensitive with what works and doesn't.

 

[Dr. B]

I was pushing for 400 g per day, but now I'm closer to 300 and that feels a lot better.

I'm familiar with Peat's stance on white sugar. For me I was trying to bump up my carbs for a while seeing that helped.

My tongue cleared up quite well since drinking the raw milk most likely played a role in that white coating on my tongue to go away. I didn't cut out the 1%, but the addition seemed to help so maybe you're onto something.

I'm going to give it a few months of consistent intake like this, but by this point I'm pretty sensitive with what works and doesn't.

if its 1% its got those filler ingredients, probably causes the white coating
it seems homogenizing can change how its absorbed in the mouth, my teeth feel fresher after drinking the good A2 whole milk...

 

[SaltiestSardine]

Speaking of teeth and sugar, has anybody tried Nathan Hatch's recommendation for a "sugar mouthwash"? I'm not sure i can quote the relevant text since it's from his Ebook

 

[Dr. B]

Speaking of teeth and sugar, has anybody tried Nathan Hatch's recommendation for a "sugar mouthwash"? I'm not sure i can quote the relevant text since it's from his Ebook

mate isnt that Nathan Hatch guy a poster on here? i saw someone with a profile pic just like his, posting on here

 

[SaltiestSardine]

mate isnt that Nathan Hatch guy a poster on here? i saw someone with a profile pic just like his, posting on here

I dunno. Pretty new here