High sugar consumption could cause the body to become unable to regulate androgen levels?

Hgreen56

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some people have been posting these anti-sugar studies here lately, which claim that too high sugar consumption could cause the body to become unable to regulate androgen levels, etc.
Sugar does not decrease androgens they said when you eat sugar it lowers test by 40% well thats anytime you eat food not sugars fault that it lowers blood androgens in the day


Can someone clarify this?
 
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Razvan

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maybe if it created micronutrient deficiencies in the long run maybe but then all you would most likely have to do is supplement thiamine maybe magnesium too and eat 1/2 to 1oz liver a day
If you have good thyroid you can get away for months and years without getting enough nutrients while eating more sugar, because thyroid is capable of retaining a lot of nutrients especially magnesium in a long run, recycling them and then reusing it,that's why if you take thyroid and improve your metabolism you can fast all day and eat little calories without having a stress response. As Peat said when he was hypothyroid he needed 8000 calories a day after correcting it he needed only 2500.
The production of Energy and metabolism is more important in the long run than over fueling yourself with nutrients.
 

PurpleHeart

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Eating anything will push Androgens into the cells to enhance muscle growth and repair, sperm production and other biological functions, Serum hormones are not a good indicator, especially in men because men have a daily circle or hormonal flow as opposed to women who have a monthly one.

Of course eating excessive amounts of refined sugar is problematic though but for other reasons, like the absence of nutrients, Ray Peat reccomends fruit, white sugar is only beneficial in the short term as a supplement not in the long run.
 

AndrogenicJB

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If you have good thyroid you can get away for months and years without getting enough nutrients while eating more sugar, because thyroid is capable of retaining a lot of nutrients especially magnesium in a long run, recycling them and then reusing it,that's why if you take thyroid and improve your metabolism you can fast all day and eat little calories without having a stress response. As Peat said when he was hypothyroid he needed 8000 calories a day after correcting it he needed only 2500.
The production of Energy and metabolism is more important in the long run than over fueling yourself with nutrients.
I might just switch to coconut palm sugar anyway .Am I right in thinking that for good thyroid function the most important things are iodine, selenium, sugars, low stress and pufa avoidance? Am I missing anything?
 

Razvan

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I might just switch to coconut palm sugar anyway .Am I right in thinking that for good thyroid function the most important things are iodine, selenium, sugars, low stress and pufa avoidance? Am I missing anything?
Leave iodine out,calcium to phosphate ratio,if it isn't in good ratio can raise PTH and block thyroid thus raising aldosterone angiotensin renin,vitamin D,low pufa,low stress and B1.
Also prolactin and estrogen levels,key to thyroid and dopamine levels.
 

AndrogenicJB

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Leave iodine out,calcium to phosphate ratio,if it isn't in good ratio can raise PTH and block thyroid thus raising aldosterone angiotensin renin,vitamin D,low pufa,low stress and B1.
Also prolactin and estrogen levels,key to thyroid and dopamine levels.
What's wrong with iodine? Especially in the low dose 150mcg from kelp.

Do you see this working : Calcium supplemetation (for the ratio), vitamin e/piracetam (for prolactin/estrogen control and raising dopamine), l-theanine (for lowering serotonin &cortisol), salt (lowering aldosterone/adrenaline)
 

Razvan

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What's wrong with iodine? Especially in the low dose 150mcg from kelp.

Do you see this working : Calcium supplemetation (for the ratio), vitamin e/piracetam (for prolactin/estrogen control and raising dopamine), l-theanine (for lowering serotonin &cortisol), salt (lowering aldosterone/adrenaline)
In that low dosage i don't see any problems. Yes very good combinations you've made there, if you don't tolerate dairy, calcium carbonate is very good.
Vitamin E and K2 for prolactin and estrogen
Piracetam+ creatine+B1 for mitochondrial respiration and dopamine. I use this combinations very often. I personally don't like l- theanine but i know a lot of people who had good results with it.
 

schultz

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Can someone clarify this?

Re: First quote - What would be the mechanism behind sugar causing the body to be unable to regulate androgen levels? It sounds sort of made up, but the poster may have had something in mind I suppose.


Eating anything will push Androgens into the cells to enhance muscle growth and repair, sperm production and other biological functions, Serum hormones are not a good indicator, especially in men because men have a daily circle or hormonal flow as opposed to women who have a monthly one.

Of course eating excessive amounts of refined sugar is problematic though but for other reasons, like the absence of nutrients, Ray Peat reccomends fruit, white sugar is only beneficial in the short term as a supplement not in the long run.

I think this is correct.
 

AndrogenicJB

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Re: First quote - What would be the mechanism behind sugar causing the body to be unable to regulate androgen levels? It sounds sort of made up, but the poster may have had something in mind I suppose.




I think this is correct.
I think all that is needed is just eat a reasonable amount of refined suagr and ensure the rest of your diet is peaty and nutrient dense.
 

AndrogenicJB

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In that low dosage i don't see any problems. Yes very good combinations you've made there, if you don't tolerate dairy, calcium carbonate is very good.
Vitamin E and K2 for prolactin and estrogen
Piracetam+ creatine+B1 for mitochondrial respiration and dopamine. I use this combinations very often. I personally don't like l- theanine but i know a lot of people who had good results with it.
I think the fat soluble vitamins are very underrated. You should try d3 above 10,000 IU has an androgenic feel to it and I feel changed my facial appearance slightly
 

Razvan

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I think the fat soluble vitamins are very underrated. You should try d3 above 10,000 IU has an androgenic feel to it and I feel changed my facial appearance slightly
Yes especially EDK are amazing for blocking estrogen and hormones. There is a study in which showing 10000iu of vitamin D and 5mg of K2 grows penis.
How long did you take it ? Or from just one usage ?
 

AndrogenicJB

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Yes especially EDK are amazing for blocking estrogen and hormones. There is a study in which showing 10000iu of vitamin D and 5mg of K2 grows penis.
How long did you take it ? Or from just one usage ?
On workout days I did 10,000IU and on non workout days I took 5,000-. It changed my skin pigmentation and I feel like I definitely noticed strength gains.
 

Kvothe

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Life Sci. 1987 May 4;40(18):1761-8.
Diet-hormone interactions: protein/carbohydrate ratio alters reciprocally the plasma levels of testosterone and cortisol and their respective binding globulins in man
K E Anderson, W Rosner, M S Khan, M I New, S Y Pang, P S Wissel, A Kappa

Abstract​


The aim of this study was to determine if a change in protein/carbohydrate ratio influences plasma steroid hormone concentrations. There is little information about the effects of specific dietary components on steroid hormone metabolism in humans. Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet (468 +/- 34 ng/dl, mean +/- S.E.) than during a high protein diet (371 +/- 23 ng/dl, p less than 0.05) and were accompanied by parallel changes in sex hormone binding globulin (32.5 +/- 2.8 nmol/l vs. 23.4 +/- 1.6 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.01). By contrast, cortisol concentrations were consistently lower during the high carbohydrate diet than during the high protein diet (7.74 +/- 0.71 micrograms/dl vs. 10.6 +/- 0.4 micrograms/dl respectively, p less than 0.05), and there were parallel changes in corticosteroid binding globulin concentrations (635 +/- 60 nmol/l vs. 754 +/- 31 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.05). The diets were equal in total calories and fat. These consistent and reciprocal changes suggest that the ratio of protein to carbohydrate in the human diet is an important regulatory factor for steroid hormone plasma levels and for liver-derived hormone binding proteins.

[...]The second diet contained carbohydrate-rich foods such as bread, vegetables, fruit, juices, pastry, and candy: in this diet 10% of total calories were
protein, 70% were carbohydrate, and 20% were fat. [...]
 

schultz

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Life Sci. 1987 May 4;40(18):1761-8.
Diet-hormone interactions: protein/carbohydrate ratio alters reciprocally the plasma levels of testosterone and cortisol and their respective binding globulins in man
K E Anderson, W Rosner, M S Khan, M I New, S Y Pang, P S Wissel, A Kappa

Abstract​


The aim of this study was to determine if a change in protein/carbohydrate ratio influences plasma steroid hormone concentrations. There is little information about the effects of specific dietary components on steroid hormone metabolism in humans. Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet (468 +/- 34 ng/dl, mean +/- S.E.) than during a high protein diet (371 +/- 23 ng/dl, p less than 0.05) and were accompanied by parallel changes in sex hormone binding globulin (32.5 +/- 2.8 nmol/l vs. 23.4 +/- 1.6 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.01). By contrast, cortisol concentrations were consistently lower during the high carbohydrate diet than during the high protein diet (7.74 +/- 0.71 micrograms/dl vs. 10.6 +/- 0.4 micrograms/dl respectively, p less than 0.05), and there were parallel changes in corticosteroid binding globulin concentrations (635 +/- 60 nmol/l vs. 754 +/- 31 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.05). The diets were equal in total calories and fat. These consistent and reciprocal changes suggest that the ratio of protein to carbohydrate in the human diet is an important regulatory factor for steroid hormone plasma levels and for liver-derived hormone binding proteins.

[...]The second diet contained carbohydrate-rich foods such as bread, vegetables, fruit, juices, pastry, and candy: in this diet 10% of total calories were
protein, 70% were carbohydrate, and 20% were fat. [...]

Interesting paper. I did consider that the switch from protein to carbohydrate could have been due to increases in certain micronutrients or other food constituents, and appears the authors were thinking the same thing as they say...

"... it is possible that components other than protein and carbohydrate contributed to the changes observed."

But they later say,

"However, we have shown previously that a change in the protein-carbohydrate ratio in the diet can substantially influence the A4-5~-reduction of testosterone and the 2-hydroxylation of estradiol... "

Also the DHEA was slightly higher and the Estradiol slightly lower. Higher androgens, lower cortisol, higher DHEA and lower estrogen. Now imagine if the carbohydrate diet was chosen more carefully instead of just eating junk (although the same could be said for the protein diet, that is not lost on me)

PlasmaHormone.jpg
 

Kvothe

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Interesting paper. I did consider that the switch from protein to carbohydrate could have been due to increases in certain micronutrients or other food constituents, and appears the authors were thinking the same thing as they say...

Certainly, other factors influence the ratio, but the testosterone-raising, and cortisol-lowering effects of low protein diets have been established in numerous studies. Independent of nutrient intake, eating a lot of protein is probably the surest way to lower your testosterone. By eating a low amount of protein (relative to carbohydrates and fats) you will increase your metabolic rate and calorie intake. Due to this increased food intake you will get enough total protein, even if the amount is small in relation to the other two macronutrients.
People that emphasize a lot of protein in their diets do the opposite, they lower their metabolic rate and increase insulin and cortisol, espcially if they avoid sugar and emphasize starch. While they gradually get into a hypometabolic state in which they need less protein, they forcefully maintain a high intake because of semi-religous beliefs. Eating a low-protein diet can be a veryp powerful way to escape metabolic problems that have lingered for a long time. Even eating just 30-40g, or around 10%, a day should be enough for some people if their calorie intake and metabolic rate is low. After a while, when the metabolic rate increases, total protein will also increase naturally together with calorie intake.
 

Sefton10

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People that emphasize a lot of protein in their diets do the opposite, they lower their metabolic rate and increase insulin and cortisol, espcially if they avoid sugar and emphasize starch. While they gradually get into a hypometabolic state in which they need less protein, they forcefully maintain a high intake because of semi-religous beliefs. Eating a low-protein diet can be a veryp powerful way to escape metabolic problems that have lingered for a long time.
I think years of a high protein diet has definitely played a role in my ongoing low metabolism. It's a difficult habit to shake too.
 

Hgreen56

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Certainly, other factors influence the ratio, but the testosterone-raising, and cortisol-lowering effects of low protein diets have been established in numerous studies. Independent of nutrient intake, eating a lot of protein is probably the surest way to lower your testosterone. By eating a low amount of protein (relative to carbohydrates and fats) you will increase your metabolic rate and calorie intake. Due to this increased food intake you will get enough total protein, even if the amount is small in relation to the other two macronutrients.
People that emphasize a lot of protein in their diets do the opposite, they lower their metabolic rate and increase insulin and cortisol, espcially if they avoid sugar and emphasize starch. While they gradually get into a hypometabolic state in which they need less protein, they forcefully maintain a high intake because of semi-religous beliefs. Eating a low-protein diet can be a veryp powerful way to escape metabolic problems that have lingered for a long time. Even eating just 30-40g, or around 10%, a day should be enough for some people if their calorie intake and metabolic rate is low. After a while, when the metabolic rate increases, total protein will also increase naturally together with calorie intake.
I think years of a high protein diet has definitely played a role in my ongoing low metabolism. It's a difficult habit to shake too.
 

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Hgreen56

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anyways, these quotes in my first post, i thought these are about sugar vs starch.
Not carbohydrates in general
 
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