High PUFA Diet Is Pro-aging, Diabetogenic, And Increases Cortisol

[haidut]

I got some heated comment after my first show with Danny. The comments were about PUFA increasing cortisol synthesis. I was told that there is no study showing such connection. Well, here is one. As you can see high PUFA diet (70% PUFA) increases expression of 11b-HSD1, which is the enzyme responsible for cortisol synthesis. Also, high PUFA diet had the same effects as aging but the effects were stronger in the high PUFA group.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22033707

"...Hsd11b1 mRNA levels in the 12C, 6F and 12F groups were 170, 114 and 218% of that in the 6C group, respectively, with a significant increase in the 12F group. Hence, the liver mRNA levels of Hsd11b1 and Rbp4 were increased by aging, and increased further by a high-fat diet. This suggests that a high-fat diet accelerates aging, and that hyperinsulinemia and lipid accumulation in the liver are promoted by increased expression of these genes."

"...Overall, our results show that intake of a high-fat diet accelerated aging, increased the expression level of Hsd11b1, increased insulin secretion, and promoted lipid accumulation in the liver of SAMP10 mice. This suggests that repression of Hsd11b1 mRNA level is important for prevention of diseases such as hyperinsulinemia and fatty liver caused by a high-fat diet and aging. Since the expression of these genes increases with aging, a long-term approach to repression of the genes is required, and this might be achieved through control of food intake."

Two of the most powerful supplements for suppressing 11b-HSD are DHEA and retinol (vitamin A). Animal studies show that DHEA as little as 5mg can inhibit 11b-HSD and dose of about 20,000 IU retinol can do the same.

 

[Agent207]

20,000 IU /day?

 

[haidut]

post 103590 20,000 IU /day?

Yes, this dose daily kept the 11b-HSD enzyme at bay in animal studies. It is used as a normal dietary intake of vitamin A in rats and mice. I am pretty sure most people don't get that much on a daily basis. Studies used higher doses (400,000 - 700,000 IU daily) to reverse obesity and all of them said this was a high but non-toxic dose that did not produce any side effects. So, it looks like the therapeutic doses of vitamin A can be in the hundreds of thousands of IU without causing side effects. Also, the daily dose required for normal functioning in animals is way higher than most people typically get through their diet unless they regular eat liver.

 

[lexis]

Liver has way too much copper.But its a complete food

 

[schultz]

Liver has way too much copper.But its a complete food

Why do you think that the amount of copper in liver is way too much?

 

[YuraCZ]

post 103653 Liver has way too much copper.But its a complete food

Only beef liver. Chicken, rabbit, turkey etc.. is ok..

 

[Agent207]

Liver is usually taken with coffee which inhibits some of the copper like it does with iron. Plus a mid-high fructose diet tends to lower copper levels on the body.

It wouldnt be a bad idea to check for a copper test, RBC and ceruloplasmin from time to time, as well as zinc for balance.

 

[schultz]

Most people would benefit from the extra copper, especially hypothyroid people, who tend to be more deficient in it. The copper in beef liver is one of its best features. It also reduces iron absorption.

 

[narouz]

Is there a good test for copper status?

 

[haidut]

post 103720 Is there a good test for copper status?

Serum copper and ceruloplasmin. You want serum copper to be normal and ceruloplasmin to be close to the upper range. High serum copper and low ceruloplasmin means copper toxicity, normal serum copper and low ceruloplasmin means functional copper deficiency (and iron toxicity) and low serum copper needs no explanation.
I would always test copper, iron, zinc and manganese together as they affect each other and one test does not mean much. Iron should always have ferritin, transferrin, and saturation and copper should always have ceruloplasmin as well. High ceruloplasmin means low iron in tissues. Ceruloplasmin and ferritin are usually inversely correlated.

 

[narouz]

post 104018

post 103720 Is there a good test for copper status?

Serum copper and ceruloplasmin. You want serum copper to be normal and ceruloplasmin to be close to the upper range. High serum copper and low ceruloplasmin means copper toxocity, normal serum copper and low ceruloplasmin means copper deficiency (and iron toxicity) and low serum copper needs no explanation.
I would always test copper, iron, zinc and manganese together as they affect each other and one test does not mean much. Iron should always have ferritin, transferrin, and saturation and copper should always have ceruloplasmin as well. High ceruloplasmin means low iron in tissues. Ceruloplasmin and ferritin are usually inversely correlated.

Thanks, haidut!

 

[nullredvector]

post 103605

post 103590 20,000 IU /day?

Studies used higher doses (400,000 - 700,000 IU daily) to reverse obesity and all of them said this was a high but non-toxic dose that did not produce any side effects. So, it looks like the therapeutic doses of vitamin A can be in the hundreds of thousands of IU without causing side effects.

This is retinol acetate?
Is there a good pure bulk supplier (acetate)(purebulk has palmitate)? Sorry haidut but your retinil would not be economical at those doses ;D

I also assume there is no data regarding those high doses and its opposition to thyroid (as ray mentions the share the same protein carrier in the serum)?

 

[Dean]

I don't understand how such megadoses of vitamin A can reverse obesity when a fraction of such a dose has been shown to be thyroid suppressive. This, I guess, is indicative that thyroid function/metabolism is or can be irrelevant to weight? Then again, I guess there is already a proven way to circumvent the relevance of thyroid/metabolism to weight, starvation. Not eating anything isn't going to improve thyroid function, but you will lose weight.

 

[haidut]

post 105074

post 103605

post 103590 20,000 IU /day?

Studies used higher doses (400,000 - 700,000 IU daily) to reverse obesity and all of them said this was a high but non-toxic dose that did not produce any side effects. So, it looks like the therapeutic doses of vitamin A can be in the hundreds of thousands of IU without causing side effects.

This is retinol acetate?
Is there a good pure bulk supplier (acetate)(purebulk has palmitate)? Sorry haidut but your retinil would not be economical at those doses ;D

I also assume there is no data regarding those high doses and its opposition to thyroid (as ray mentions the share the same protein carrier in the serum)?

The studies used retinyl palmitate. This thread found no negative effects on thyroid, but rather quite the opposite:
viewtopic.php?f=116&t=8131

 

[haidut]

post 105081 I don't understand how such megadoses of vitamin A can reverse obesity when a fraction of such a dose has been shown to be thyroid suppressive. This, I guess, is indicative that thyroid function/metabolism is or can be irrelevant to weight? Then again, I guess there is already a proven way to circumvent the relevance of thyroid/metabolism to weight, starvation. Not eating anything isn't going to improve thyroid function, but you will lose weight.

Did you see this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=116&t=8131&hilit=vitamin+a+thyroid+obese+women

If it helped obese women who are likely hypothyroid then it's probably not that big a deal. But you can take thyroid with it to make sure it does not do anything nefarious.

 

[Dean]

post 105097

post 105081 I don't understand how such megadoses of vitamin A can reverse obesity when a fraction of such a dose has been shown to be thyroid suppressive. This, I guess, is indicative that thyroid function/metabolism is or can be irrelevant to weight? Then again, I guess there is already a proven way to circumvent the relevance of thyroid/metabolism to weight, starvation. Not eating anything isn't going to improve thyroid function, but you will lose weight.

Did you see this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=116&t=8131&hilit=vitamin+a+thyroid+obese+women

If it helped obese women who are likely hypothyroid then it's probably not that big a deal. But you can take thyroid with it to make sure it does not do anything nefarious.

I'll check out the thread. The mantra here has always been that you can't get anywhere without fixing thyroid function. Also, that as little as 6 to 7000 iu vitamin A would be thyroid suppressive-- something someone with already diminished thyroid function would want to avoid. If it turns out that you can fix metabolism without improving or simply by going around thyroid function, than I am all ears.

 

[GAF]

post 103605 Also, the daily dose required for normal functioning in animals is way higher than most people typically get through their diet unless they regular eat liver.

Can you elaborate on this? Is it possible that the rda for A is woefully inadequate?

 

[haidut]

post 105118

post 105097

post 105081 I don't understand how such megadoses of vitamin A can reverse obesity when a fraction of such a dose has been shown to be thyroid suppressive. This, I guess, is indicative that thyroid function/metabolism is or can be irrelevant to weight? Then again, I guess there is already a proven way to circumvent the relevance of thyroid/metabolism to weight, starvation. Not eating anything isn't going to improve thyroid function, but you will lose weight.

Did you see this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=116&t=8131&hilit=vitamin+a+thyroid+obese+women

If it helped obese women who are likely hypothyroid then it's probably not that big a deal. But you can take thyroid with it to make sure it does not do anything nefarious.

I'll check out the thread. The mantra here has always been that you can't get anywhere without fixing thyroid function. Also, that as little as 6 to 7000 iu vitamin A would be thyroid suppressive-- something someone with already diminished thyroid function would want to avoid. If it turns out that you can fix metabolism without improving or simply by going around thyroid function, than I am all ears.

That thread says that vitamin A improved the patients thyroid function. So no, there is no going around the thyroid. The news is that higher doses of vitamin A may not be as suppressive to thyroid as many believe.

 

[haidut]

post 105147

post 103605 Also, the daily dose required for normal functioning in animals is way higher than most people typically get through their diet unless they regular eat liver.

Can you elaborate on this? Is it possible that the rda for A is woefully inadequate?

We know the RDA for vitamin A is inadequate. The RDA was designed to determine what would prevent death and malnutrition, not give you optimal health. The animals studies with vitamin A that I have seen so far all used upwards of 20,000 IU (human equivalent doses) daily as the "normal" levels of vitamin A required to ensure normal functioning and health of the animal. The human dose of 5,000 IU converted to various animal models would induce a deficiency in most of them. I guess it comes down to determining how much vitamin A each one of us needs. It may vary between person to person but it is probably higher than 5,000 IU daily for most people.

 

[nullredvector]

post 105149 The news is that higher doses of vitamin A may not be as suppressive to thyroid as many believe.

Thanks so much haidut for elucidating this! Its very relevant to my case!