High LH, Very High Testosterone, Suspected Pituitary Tumor

[Dezertfox]

I went to see the doctor today as a follow up to my bloodwork.

Since my LH is high and T is also very high without any supplements at the time of this bloodwork other than synthroid, my doctor suspects a pituitary tumor. He has ordered more tests like FSH, Prolactin, estradiol,IGF1. He also prescribed spironolactone 50 mg a day now..I don't think I will be taking it since it's used by transgenders?

I am worried right now and looking for answers. Anyone has idea why T and LH would be so high? High estrogen? Any Peat explanations for this?

I have Hashimotos as well and I wrote this post the other day.

My Bloodwork Over The Last Year, Suffering For 20 Years. Please Help

DHEA S - 441 (138-475) ALWAYS in the top range, suggest adrenal overdrive? Any tips would help..
HbA1c- 5.2..
Test - 1100 (264-900)
Free test - 37.8( 9-26) Testosterone has been very high in the last 2 tests, this time it's 30% over range, is this due to adrenal overdrive? I am worried..
LH- 7.1 ( seems to be a bit high as well)

 

[haidut]

I went to see the doctor today as a follow up to my bloodwork.

Since my LH is high and T is also very high without any supplements at the time of this bloodwork other than synthroid, my doctor suspects a pituitary tumor. He has ordered more tests like FSH, Prolactin, estradiol,IGF1. He also prescribed spironolactone 50 mg a day now..I don't think I will be taking it since it's used by transgenders?

I am worried right now and looking for answers. Anyone has idea why T and LH would be so high? High estrogen? Any Peat explanations for this?

I have Hashimotos as well and I wrote this post the other day.

My Bloodwork Over The Last Year, Suffering For 20 Years. Please Help

DHEA S - 441 (138-475) ALWAYS in the top range, suggest adrenal overdrive? Any tips would help..
HbA1c- 5.2..
Test - 1100 (264-900)
Free test - 37.8( 9-26) Testosterone has been very high in the last 2 tests, this time it's 30% over range, is this due to adrenal overdrive? I am worried..
LH- 7.1 ( seems to be a bit high as well)

IMO there is nothing wrong with these results. Your LH is in range, in pituitary tumors the LH is usually much much higher but let's see what what the other results show. Same with total T levels or DHEA. In tumors, whether of adrenal/pituitary or ectopic origin, the measured steroids are typically very high, often multiples times above top range. The free T is high, which suggests SHBG is low, so if he has not measured it I would ask him to add it to the other tests he is running.
Spironolactone is anti-androgenic and to prescribe it to a person whose total T is barely elevated and without additional evidence of an androgen-producing tumor is nothing short of a crime. If your other results come back normal I would seriously consider suing that doctor or filing a complaint against him.

 

[Dezertfox]

IMO there is nothing wrong with these results. Your LH is in range, in pituitary tumors the LH is usually much much higher but let's see what what the other results show. Same with total T levels or DHEA. In tumors, whether of adrenal/pituitary or ectopic origin, the measured steroids are typically very high, often multiples times above top range. The free T is high, which suggests SHBG is low, so if he has not measured it I would ask him to add it to the other tests he is running.
Spironolactone is anti-androgenic and to prescribe it to a person whose total T is barely elevated and without additional evidence of an androgen-producing tumor is nothing short of a crime. If your other results come back normal I would seriously consider suing that doctor or filing a complaint against him.

Thanks for the reply Haidut, I know you are busy. I asked him for SHBG test as well as ACTH and cortisol because I feel my adrenals are overloaded/overactive. He said something like SHBG is an old test and now they use something else, I can't remember. Said Adrenals are fine since DHEA is in range..I will update the thread with the results.

 

[SneezeStar]

Those bloodtests are optimal. I wouldn't take that anti-testosterone medication.

 

[Elephanto]

DHEA-S is a marker of stress and it is also reliably high in sufferers of male pattern baldness. Tackling stress as a root issue would be a good, functional approach imo. Stress itself having several possible roots like chronic intestinal permeability and so Endotoxins-related damage (they are known to directly increase stress but also indirectly by promoting Serotonin and Estrogen), the lack of some essential/semi-essential nutrients like Vit A, D, Zinc, Mag, Selenium, Palmitic Acid, B6, Taurine, Glycine etc that are known to restrict stress, or maybe some habits that tend to elevate Serotonin chronically (unoptimal breathing technique, blue lights, darkness, unrestricted mental stress etc), hypothyroidism induced by Fluoride accumulation inhibiting Iodine uptake, even for instance dietary opioid peptides (like those in dairy) in my experience decreases the resistance to stresses and so tend to elevate it chronically in long-term. Any food (or substances like coffee) that doesn't make you feel optimal could participate to this when used regularly. Some regular, moderate physical exercice can help increase the resistance to stress too imo, perhaps mainly by favoring brain oxygenation and blood flow.

Acute and chronic stress increase DHEAS concentrations in rhesus monkeys

Serum elevation of dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate associated with male pattern baldness in young men. - PubMed - NCBI

Also, I wouldn't consider your test "very high", it only is in comparison to the average modern man. An anti-androgenic approach should exacerbate stress issues since T is an inhibitor of cortisol. Like DHEA-S, we could be looking at a counter-acting mechanism here or you simply got lucky and are less environmentally damaged on this front.

edit : Apparently Spiro mainly inhibits Aldosterone, so you could take more salt to achieve this (although too much at once can be gut-irritating and cause permeability). Progesterone and bright red lights are also known to reduce Aldosterone. Spiro is also anti-bacterial, that alone can help with stress a lot like I mentioned before, so focusing on Endotoxins in more peaty ways can replace this feature.

 

[Dezertfox]

Those bloodtests are optimal. I wouldn't take that anti-testosterone medication.

Thank you, yes I won't be taking it!

 

[Dezertfox]

Thanks a lot for the response @Elephanto . I have started using mag, Vit ADE topically, K and selenium orally for about a month now. So the blood work done today should hopefully help. I don't feel good though, I have always felt tired and fatigued throughout the day and nothing really helps..Maybe it's because of some insulin resistance or just some reaction to food, even though my digestion is pretty decent I would say.

I agree about being in chronic stress, I take no stress in life in general and somehow my body is always stressed out due to these fatigue/energy issues and inflammation. I have red acne on my face/cheeks which is another sign of inflammation. Not sure how I can reduce it when digestion seems fine, also I have noticed I get more inflamed when I increase sugar intake..

I also think the elevated DHEA-S is a counter acting mechanism to my stress, do you know if that can increase T levels as well?

Also, are you saying I should avoid caffeine if it's adding to my stress? Or should I build a tolerance to it?

 

[Elephanto]

About a bad glycemic response or insulin sensitivity, sometimes Chromium can be the missing piece. Peat's dad cured his diabetes with Brewer's Yeast, which is the highest source of Chromium. It's also thought to help on the Endotoxins and pathogens side by preventing chronically high blood glucose which pathogens feed on. Another "missing piece" kind of thing can be Boron, which is a chelator of Fluoride and by removing it from the thyroid gland, could enable it to recover (assuming sufficient Iodine intake).

Yeah I don't know about T increasing from stress, possibly so (makes a lot of sense regarding evolution). I have studies on stress increasing both DHEA-S and DHT.

About coffee, well I'm just saying to pay attention to how food and substances make you feel. I prefer the approach of stopping coffee if it easily produces a stress reaction and going back on it (1-2 daily) when my state is better. I tend to agree with Traditional Chinese Medicine that coffee takes energy rather than gives it; so when you're already weak and easily stressed, it could hamper recovery. Another underrated cause of lethargy can be an high frequency of masturbation (so abstaining for a few weeks can really help), and I would also consider Zinc which was a game changer on so many aspects for me.

 

[Dezertfox]

About a bad glycemic response or insulin sensitivity, sometimes Chromium can be the missing piece. Peat's dad cured his diabetes with Brewer's Yeast, which is the highest source of Chromium. It's also thought to help on the Endotoxins and pathogens side by preventing chronically high blood glucose which pathogens feed on. Another "missing piece" kind of thing can be Boron, which is a chelator of Fluoride and by removing it from the thyroid gland, could enable it to recover (assuming sufficient Iodine intake).

Yeah I don't know about T increasing from stress, possibly so (makes a lot of sense regarding evolution). I have studies on stress increasing both DHEA-S and DHT.

About coffee, well I'm just saying to pay attention to how food and substances make you feel. I prefer the approach of stopping coffee if it easily produces a stress reaction and going back on it (1-2 daily) when my state is better. I tend to agree with Traditional Chinese Medicine that coffee takes energy rather than gives it; so when you're already weak and easily stressed, it could hamper recovery. Another underrated cause of lethargy can be an high frequency of masturbation (so abstaining for a few weeks can really help), and I would also consider Zinc which was a game changer on so many aspects for me.

Regarding Iodine, Peat is against it, I had thought of trying kelp but stopped because Peat was so clearly against it and I already had Hashimotos.

I am getting a ARL Hair test analysis done, so that should give me a better idea about my mineral levels including copper, chromium etc I guess? Do you know if hair test is a good indicator and reliable?

I took zinc picolinate 50 mg for about 6 months and never did a thing for me, so I recently stopped since I started all the vitamins. I will try to add it in again though..

Also, re masturbation I have greatly reduced it, maybe once a week now..

 

[Mito]

I took zinc picolinate 50 mg for about 6 months and never did a thing for me, so I recently stopped since I started all the vitamins. I will try to add it in again though..

 

[CLASH]

@Elephanto
What protocol are you using to detox floride from the thyroid? Solely boron?

 

[Elephanto]

@Elephanto
What protocol are you using to detox floride from the thyroid? Solely boron?

Yes. I also have some Tamarind but I think its effectiveness is limited. Sulphur and Taurine as general detoxifiers and chelators may help too.

@Dezertfox There's some nuances there, the thyroid requires Iodine to function so saying you should avoid Iodine makes no sense. What he warns against is high-dose supplementation, I'm saying you should still get at least the RDA if you expect results from Boron decalcifying the thyroid gland.

@Mito This is such a bad video, Picolinate increased serum levels more than any other type yet he somehow argues that other types are more effective. The larger increase in urine loss simply reflects a greater total amount of absorption (the much greater increase in hair levels compared to other types shows it isn't lost more). Moreover, Zinc's absorption rate is known to decrease as intake increases so 50mg elemental may not even have been enough to see significant effects from any types. Picolinic Acid has been shown to greatly increase Zinc absorption. Vitamin B6 is known to assist Zinc in its functions and guess what, it increases Picolinic Acid concentrations in the body on its own.

Another point, in the study the basal levels in the Picolinate group are significantly higher so logically, uptake should be less if it follows the same pattern as that of the absorption's rate.

Effect of iron, vitamin B-6 and picolinic acid on zinc absorption in the rat. - PubMed - NCBI

The concentration of picolinic acid in the pancreas increased as the level of dietary vitamin B-6 was increased. Zinc absorption was significantly elevated in rats fed the high iron diet that contained either 4 or 10 ppm vitamin B-6 and 200 ppm picolinic acid.

The results suggest that high levels of dietary iron inhibit zinc absorption via competition for binding with endogenous picolinic acid. The results provide further evidence to support the hypothesis that picolinic acid facilitates absorption of dietary zinc.

This study also shows one of the many ways through which Iron can promote mpb.

edit :
@Dezertfox BTW Zinc as a game changer for me was 100mg daily for a few weeks (also avoiding wheat and sources of phytic acid at the time and taking 50mg p5p once daily). I remember the dopaminergic and anti-cortisol effect being much more potent and noticeable at 100mg than 50. This effect became less noticeable after a while, probably indicating that my levels had been corrected (nails are also good visual markers of this; they become more thick, hard, ridgeless and a thick white line at the top).

Anyway I know people are cautious with Zinc dosages so I don't necessarily want to recommend anything but my experience was that 100mg every day for about 2 months made a big difference for me. I took it for much longer at this dose and I began having a low copper symptom (spine felt compressed, it was less natural to stand straight) about a year in which was quickly resolved by eating copper-rich food. I'm talking like 2 days later my spine and back felt perfect. It's a good idea to eat copper-rich food regularly while supplementing Zinc anyway; which I wasn't doing at the time.

@Dezertfox Another edit but yeah about kelp, it may be too impure to be healthy. I've found a good way to get Iodine in a salt substistute (Windsor brand) that is actually Potassium and Iodine providing 650mg and 60% of RDA in 1/4 tsp, respectively. Taking one about twice a day is pretty convenient to achieve high levels of each, getting the rest from salt for Iodine. In the studies I've reviewed, I've never seen 1mg cause thyroid issues; usually happens in the 9mg+ range. I think about 0.5mg daily may be optimal (having more than adequate levels is thought to help displace Fluoride and other halogens too) and unlikely to be problematic to my knowledge.

I think Peat doesn't believe in Hashimoto and blames it on other factors (Iodine excess for instance; and autoimmune disorders on Estrogen and pufas in general), and personally I hypothesize that it may often be misdiagnosed Fluoride-induced hypothyroidism. See the raise in number of cases seems to correlate with the fluoridation of 1st world public waters. It's also in vaccines and many drugs, maybe in doses that are supraphysiological for small infants. In one's life, commercial sodas and other bottled beverages may have been an important contributor for instance. The importance of Iodine seems to be overlooked here and by Peat because of the concern of excess, though both should indeed be concerns. It is really through the blockage of Iodine uptake that Fluoride has been shown to cause hypothyroidism and to calcify the thyroid gland. Boron is also depleted from most soils, only being high in Israel where arthritis rates are very low (Boron is also a vascular decalcifier, similar in effect to Vit K2).

 

[Dezertfox]

So the results just came in today and I had reduced my thyroid medication for t4 to once every 2-3 days since it had a higher half life and I thought maybe I have too much in the system. My prolactin is very high which can be caused by a tumor as well or maybe due to high TSH?

Another thing I am wondering is people with High T have Low prolactin and vice versa how can I have both high at the same time? What if prolactin was even higher when the thyroid levels were good? Since T has gone down a bit with increasing TSH, maybe prolactin went down too?

Estradiol - 23 (7-42)
Prolactin - 28 (4-15.2)
Testosterone - 849
Free T - 19.9
FSH - 4.2 (1.5-12.4)
LH-6.4
TSH - 12 (0.45-4.5)
DHEA S - 403
Parathyroid - 23 (15-65)
IGF1- 147 (98-282)
Cholestrol total - 208
Triglycerides -153

 

[LCohen]

DHEA-S is a marker of stress and it is also reliably high in sufferers of male pattern baldness. Tackling stress as a root issue would be a good, functional approach imo. Stress itself having several possible roots like chronic intestinal permeability and so Endotoxins-related damage (they are known to directly increase stress but also indirectly by promoting Serotonin and Estrogen), the lack of some essential/semi-essential nutrients like Vit A, D, Zinc, Mag, Selenium, Palmitic Acid, B6, Taurine, Glycine etc that are known to restrict stress, or maybe some habits that tend to elevate Serotonin chronically (unoptimal breathing technique, blue lights, darkness, unrestricted mental stress etc), hypothyroidism induced by Fluoride accumulation inhibiting Iodine uptake, even for instance dietary opioid peptides (like those in dairy) in my experience decreases the resistance to stresses and so tend to elevate it chronically in long-term. Any food (or substances like coffee) that doesn't make you feel optimal could participate to this when used regularly. Some regular, moderate physical exercice can help increase the resistance to stress too imo, perhaps mainly by favoring brain oxygenation and blood flow.

Acute and chronic stress increase DHEAS concentrations in rhesus monkeys

Serum elevation of dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate associated with male pattern baldness in young men. - PubMed - NCBI

Also, I wouldn't consider your test "very high", it only is in comparison to the average modern man. An anti-androgenic approach should exacerbate stress issues since T is an inhibitor of cortisol. Like DHEA-S, we could be looking at a counter-acting mechanism here or you simply got lucky and are less environmentally damaged on this front.

edit : Apparently Spiro mainly inhibits Aldosterone, so you could take more salt to achieve this (although too much at once can be gut-irritating and cause permeability). Progesterone and bright red lights are also known to reduce Aldosterone. Spiro is also anti-bacterial, that alone can help with stress a lot like I mentioned before, so focusing on Endotoxins in more peaty ways can replace this feature.

I used low dose Dexamethasone for a while. For suppressing my adrenals & DHEA-S. I can say that it completely stopped my hair loss.

 

[Elephanto]

I used low dose Dexamethasone for a while. For suppressing my adrenals & DHEA-S. I can say that it completely stopped my hair loss.

Very interesting, taking note. I think a good anti-stress stack, implying that they are not herbs with serotogenic, pro-NO or estrogenic effects, should be really helpful in most cases. As a general rule, I think anything that produces a crash is much less likely to work in long-term; for instance opioid peptides can result at first in an amelioration of appeareance (face is less tensed, the effect of being chronically relaxed makes you look and act more attractive too) but they also mean you are chronically triggering Prolactin, which will usually end up participating in a negative hormonal cascade; reducing Testosterone and resistance to stress, increasing Serotonin, Estrogen, Nitric Oxide and inflammatory cytokines production. Chronically high Histamine and/or Serotonin (Endotoxins trigger both for instance) and frequent ejaculations are other causes of chronically elevated Prolactin as they trigger it. Second general rule, it's always better to work your way up from the roots (as in, don't inhibit DHT that is neuroprotective against chronic stress but reduce chronic stress which will reduce the responsive production of DHT).

 

[GorillaHead]

I used low dose Dexamethasone for a while. For suppressing my adrenals & DHEA-S. I can say that it completely stopped my hair loss.

That makes me think dheas is the cause of hair loss. Mpb men have high dhea-s

 

[Dezertfox]

I used low dose Dexamethasone for a while. For suppressing my adrenals & DHEA-S. I can say that it completely stopped my hair loss.

Hey where did you buy the dexamethasone? What were your Dhea levels? Isn't suppressing dhea long term bad?

 

[LCohen]

Very interesting, taking note. I think a good anti-stress stack, implying that they are not herbs with serotogenic, pro-NO or estrogenic effects, should be really helpful in most cases. As a general rule, I think anything that produces a crash is much less likely to work in long-term; for instance opioid peptides can result at first in an amelioration of appeareance (face is less tensed, the effect of being chronically relaxed makes you look and act more attractive too) but they also mean you are chronically triggering Prolactin, which will usually end up participating in a negative hormonal cascade; reducing Testosterone and resistance to stress, increasing Serotonin, Estrogen, Nitric Oxide and inflammatory cytokines production. Chronically high Histamine and/or Serotonin (Endotoxins trigger both for instance) and frequent ejaculations are other causes of chronically elevated Prolactin as they trigger it. Second general rule, it's always better to work your way up from the roots (as in, don't inhibit DHT that is neuroprotective against chronic stress but reduce chronic stress which will reduce the responsive production of DHT).

When your testes don't produce enough androgen, your adrenals will. That's the point when androgens & stress intersects. ACTH rises those androgens and cortisol.

Prolactin also triggers ACTH to produce these bullsh*ts. Together with DHEA-S & Prolactin are great marker of this stuation like you said.

DEX not only suppresses adrenals. Also suppresses circulating estrogens even down regulates Estrogen Receptor Alpha.

DEX also reduces excess collagen accumulation aka scalp fibrosis. It's used in the treatment of lot of fibrotic diseases. Serious stuff.

That makes me think dheas is the cause of hair loss. Mpb men have high dhea-s

Yes, DHEA-S aka adrenal androgens. Doctors used to give Hydrocortisone to PCOS women. For treating their adrenal hyperplasia and "androgenic" conditions. Hair loss, oily skin, hirsutism...

Hey where did you buy the dexamethasone? What were your Dhea levels? Isn't suppressing dhea long term bad?

Local pharmacy. Using it very low dose like 0.5mg EOD.

 

[Dezertfox]

When your testes don't produce enough androgen, your adrenals will. That's the point when androgens & stress intersects. ACTH rises those androgens and cortisol.

Prolactin also triggers ACTH to produce these bullsh*ts. Together with DHEA-S & Prolactin are great marker of this stuation like you said.

DEX not only suppresses adrenals. Also suppresses circulating estrogens even down regulates Estrogen Receptor Alpha.

DEX also reduces excess collagen accumulation aka scalp fibrosis. It's used in the treatment of lot of fibrotic diseases. Serious stuff.



Yes, DHEA-S aka adrenal androgens. Doctors used to give Hydrocortisone to PCOS women. For treating their adrenal hyperplasia and "androgenic" conditions. Hair loss, oily skin, hirsutism...



Local pharmacy. Using it very low dose like 0.5mg EOD.

Quick question, so my T is high and so is DHEA-S. What I am worried about is if I suppress my DHEAS, it will suppress my T as well? Since apparently my testes aren't producing enough testosterone given the LH levels are close to 7? Does that mean I am at the risk of my testes not working properly and infertility?

Also long term won't it have a negative effect on my T since the testes are not producing enough T already..

 

[LCohen]

Quick question, so my T is high and so is DHEA-S. What I am worried about is if I suppress my DHEAS, it will suppress my T as well? Since apparently my testes aren't producing enough testosterone given the LH levels are close to 7? Does that mean I am at the risk of my testes not working properly and infertility?

Also long term won't it have a negative effect on my T since the testes are not producing enough T already..

It will probably suppress your T too. But not a big suppression. I don't have much information about how to raise T naturally.