High Homocysteine As A Genetic Disease? What To Do?

[gilson dantas]

I ask: high homocysteine may be a genetic defect [genetic deficiency of an enzyme, the MTHGR reductase]? In that case, we can say that homocysteinemia is a disease that passes through the genes? A genetic disease?
What to do then? I suppose that supplementing with B6, with folate, with B12 will lead to nowhere.
What we can do to deal with that with the diet?
The medical option I know is to take TMG for the rest of the life, based on 3-6 g per day: well, this is a bad option since we can have fish odor forever and, at the same time, the effect of TMG is small, it will only lower the homocysteine in something around to 10 to 15%, which is very little for those who have homocysteine around 15 or 18 !! And in addition, TMG can increase Apolipoprotein A1!
In summary: if you born with that genetic disease and then have hyperhomocysteinemia, what diet can reverse that problem? None? Will you have to supplement TMG for the rest of your life?

 

[Xisca]

Did you test it?
I have been waiting 2 months now for my genetic test + organic acids test....

 

[gilson dantas]

Did you test it?

I want, first of all, to find a answer to that questions...

 

[Xisca]

In a certain way, why test it if you can do nothing....
But if you test it and don't have the falty gene, then you can look for something else!
When I receive the results, I see an integrative medicine doctor...

 

[Xisca]

I saw quite a lot of informations on phoenix rising.

Supplement all life is better than having no solution....

 

[Mito]

I ask: high homocysteine may be a genetic defect [genetic deficiency of an enzyme, the MTHGR reductase]? In that case, we can say that homocysteinemia is a disease that passes through the genes? A genetic disease?
What to do then? I suppose that supplementing with B6, with folate, with B12 will lead to nowhere.
What we can do to deal with that with the diet?
The medical option I know is to take TMG for the rest of the life, based on 3-6 g per day: well, this is a bad option since we can have fish odor forever and, at the same time, the effect of TMG is small, it will only lower the homocysteine in something around to 10 to 15%, which is very little for those who have homocysteine around 15 or 18 !! And in addition, TMG can increase Apolipoprotein A1!
In summary: if you born with that genetic disease and then have hyperhomocysteinemia, what diet can reverse that problem? None? Will you have to supplement TMG for the rest of your life?

When I asked Ray "Is there a safe way to lower the Homocysteine level in the blood?" He responded "A diet rich in folic acid, B12, B6, and good thyroid function. Milk, eggs, orange juice are helpful foods."

 

[gilson dantas]

@Mito, thanks!!
I see that my weakness is the thyroid; I just do anythyng I know but I am not improving my thyroid;
My body temperature is no more than 36.2.

 

[bloom]

@Mito, thanks!!
I see that my weakness is the thyroid; I just do anythyng I know but I am not improving my thyroid;
My body temperature is no more than 36.2.

Why do you say folate, b12, and b6 wouldn't help? Folate and b12 are neccessary to convert homocysteine to methionine, and b6 to convert homocysteine into cystathionine. If you have say mthfr, mtr, mtrr SNP's. You may need the active forms of these vitamins in specific doses.

 

[Amazoniac]

my weakness is the thyroid

How do you know that it isn't responding adequately to what you're doing?
Many doubts have been raised when it comes to that recovery diet, even more so if you don't take thyroid in conjunction.

--
A few things for your consideration:

An Interview With Dr. Raymond Peat: A Renowned Nutritional Counselor Offers His Thoughts About Thyroid Disease / Thyroid Disease Information Source - Articles/FAQs

"The absorption and retention of magnesium, sodium, and copper, and the synthesis of proteins, are usually poor in hypothyroidism. Salt craving is common in hypothyroidism, and eating additional sodium tends to raise the body temperature, and by decreasing the production of aldosterone, it helps to minimize the loss of magnesium, which in turn allows cells to respond better to the thyroid hormone. This is probably why a low sodium diet increases adrenalin production, and why eating enough sodium lowers adrenalin and improves sleep. The lowered adrenalin is also likely to improve intestinal motility."
"Because the quality of commercial nutritional supplements is dangerously low, the only supplement I generally advocate is vitamin E, and that should be used sparingly. Occasionally, I will suggest limited use of other supplements, but it is far safer in general to use real foods, and to exclude foods which are poor in nutrients. Magnesium is typically deficient in hypothyroidism, and the safest way to get it is by using orange juice and meats, and by using epsom salts baths; magnesium carbonate can be helpful, if the person doesn't experience side effects such as headaches or hemorrhoids."​

Immunodeficiency, dioxins, stress, and the hormones
Auto-Immune Complications of D-Penicillamine-A Possible Result of Zinc and Magnesium Depletion and of Pyridoxine Inactivation

"[..]experimental vitamin B6 deficiency causes cellular losses of both magnesium [23,24] and zinc [25], each of which is necessary for pyridoxine-dependent enzymes [37-39]. Cellular loss of magnesium and/or zinc might lead to aberrations of lymphoid tissue. Magnesium deficiency in rats has caused thymic hypertrophy [14-16] (or atrophy [16] under different conditions), lymphosarcoma, and leukemia [15,40] in certain strains. In mice, magnesium deficiency has reduced the number of antibody-synthesizing cells, thereby lowering immunoglobulin levels [39]. Optimal magnesium concentrations are required for normal in vitro lymphocyte transformation [42]. In rats, zinc deficiency causes inhibition of T-cell immunity [17], thymic atrophy and hypofunction [18], and impaired cell-mediated immunity [18]. Clinical zinc deficiency is associated with immunodeficiencies and T-cell dysfunction in infants [19,20], and thymic hypoplasia in calves [19,20] with acrodermatitis enteropathica, a disease that results from impaired intestinal zinc absorption [20,43,44]."​

Eluv: Effects Of Stress And Trauma On The Body

"[..]things that are lost specifically by high stress which are protein, zinc, some of the D vitamins are turned over very fast in stress so foods like liver and oysters and eggs, which are rich in the trace minerals, and protein are as long as you’re getting adequate carbohydrate and calcium[*] these happen to be high phosphate foods, along with the protein, but they have the highest concentration of healing minerals and vitamins."​

All of the authors that I read so far addressing tumors seem to agree that protein should not be in excess, especially of animal origin, and the ratio of micronutrients/protein should be high. If you're still eating cheese as your main source of protein, I guess that it might be beneficial to consider some variety: casein is concentrated and lack the nutrients that are lost in processing milk (some methods are milder), the protein is highly stimulatory and many times constipating. Milk has its protective carbs that travel all way down the intestines and encourage the maintenance of "safe bacteria". A diet with mostly cheese and orange juice leaves mostly protein for interaction (haidut posted how bacterial toxins "balloon the prostate"), unless your intestines move fast. This proneness is so widely known that the concept in many protocols is often extended to the restriction of all animal foods and inclusion of enemas. I know you read a few of them so you know the link.
You're already restricting yourself too much, and I don't want to encourage you to deprive yourself even more. If you would enjoy and feel comfortable doing so, consider other options too, such as some milk and a bit of meat with gelatin. *If you consume cottage cheese, it doesn't contain too much calcium, which is fine if combined with orange juice they provide you enough calcium to suppress inflammation. Sometimes cottage cheese provide you enough calcium but an excess of protein. The addition of excess milk can be a problem, it might add considerable amounts of calcium, so you'll need enough of its antagonists to avoid problems. There are a lot of discussions here about options. And I guess that they can only curb up to a certain point.
Shellfish have many minerals that can be beneficial for you, including those that aren't analyzed, especially oysters, mussels and shrimp. A diet consisting mainly of cheese and orange juice can create some gross imbalances that no weekly liver can correct.

There are many fruits that you can add for variety.
Since guavas are out of season right now, guava jelly is just one of the many options.
Ray Peat Approved Safe Fruits
And others that are not on the list, and the ones that you enjoy!

 

[gilson dantas]

You're already restricting yourself too much,

I agree with you. I supposed - until now - that with liver [once by week], shrimp [once by week], and gelatin every day, all of it was a solution to avoid imbalances.
About animal protein: I follow the R Peat advise [I try to use 120 g of animal protein by day; my thyroid is weak really; thyroid is the most difficult problem to me...]

 

[Amazoniac]

I agree with you. I supposed - until now - that with liver [once by week], shrimp [once by week], and gelatin every day, all of it was a solution to avoid imbalances.
About animal protein: I follow the R Peat advise [I try to use 120 g of animal protein by day; my thyroid is weak really; thyroid is the most difficult problem to me...]

A weak person gets weaker with sun exposure. This just demonstrates that when you're deficient in energy and nutrients, you have to be more careful with stimulating things, one of them being thyroid supplements. It might be complicating the situation.
Perhaps some shellfish everyday can be helpful. Gelatin is complementary to muscle protein, it can create imbalances too when taken without the other amino acids and away from meals. If it feels right to picture a cooked tendon being added to your meal, then it's probably beneficial. Taste is another very helpful guide.

 

[Xisca]

Do you take any thyroid supplement?
Or are you very very cautious with all sups in general?

My labs were not bad for both t3 and t4, but I have 36º4, so low too!
As a child, as low as 35,5ºc... so 37 was fever...

 

[Amazoniac]

Do you take any thyroid supplement?

No. Not because my metabolism right now is as sharp as yours, but because it would add more unwanted variables..

 

[gilson dantas]

I learned that it is difficult to heal the tumor without healing the thyroid.
And that the thyroid needs - among other elements - protein in quantity and quality;
Why should someone lower protein if that person needs to heal the thyroid to cure the tumor?

 

[gilson dantas]

A weak person gets weaker with sun exposure

It is true? I learn the opposite: the sun heals/activate mytochondria, and [if you have cholesterol] with the sun you will have the vitamin D.

 

[Xisca]

oops Amazoniac, we posted more or less together, so my question was to Gilson...
And no, my metabolism is not sharp, it is low!
I just decided to not yet go for thyroid sup, to not interfere with my production that is not bad according to labs.

Also I wait for my genetic test result, 2 months wait already, grrrrr

 

[Xisca]

It is true? I learn the opposite: the sun heals/activate mytochondria, and [if you have cholesterol] with the sun you will have the vitamin D.

In the case of a friend with multi chemicals sensitivity, she is weak and she cannot stand the sun.
I like sun but can sneeze and have cold symptoms, dunno why...

I read to not wash with soap, to keep forming the vitamin D!
So many people do not get it.
After 20 mns, the skin start to destroy the vitD, to not get too much.
And the sun must be at 50º above the horizon, so morning and evening are of no use.

 

[gilson dantas]

Do you take any thyroid supplement?

Yes. I use thyroid. My temperature is low [rarely reaches 36,2 C], then I suppose that I have hypothyroidism.
And I want to heal a prostate tumor.
So I suppose I must to take thyroid [of course, among other elements].
But I don´t find a thyroid [brand] that elevates my temperature. The transdermal T3 and T3+T4] acts like water: I take it and my temperature remains low.
Otherwise, I use 1 grain NDT every day. Nothing changes.

 

[gilson dantas]

my production that is not bad according to labs

Labs? what kind of labs? Perhaps temperature/pulse is a good idea to know your real condition, I don´t know.

 

[Amazoniac]

I learned that it is difficult to heal the tumor without healing the thyroid.
And that the thyroid needs - among other elements - protein in quantity and quality;
Why should someone lower protein if that person needs to heal the thyroid to cure the tumor?

I suppose that the more nourished you are, the more you can get away with less protein. That's the point constant snacking on nourishing foods when the metabolism is recovering. Sometimes people have weak digestion and can't handle it properly.

It is true? I learn the opposite: the sun heals/activate mytochondria, and [if you have cholesterol] with the sun you will have the vitamin D.

Yes, but in a broader context sun avoidance is part of the "protective inhibition".