High Fat Is Bad, But High Fat Plus Carbs Is Worse

[James IV]

Curious, what did you think I was trying to prove?

Nothing. Prove was probably not the right word. I just wanted to clarify in case some folks may interpret that to mean that fat, in and of itself, makes you fat.

 

[James IV]

Agreed.
I would add that psychological/perceived stress induces insulin resistance as well.

[Study of the stress response: role of anxiety, cortisol and DHEAs]. - PubMed - NCBI
The effects of cortisol on insulin sensitivity in muscle. - PubMed - NCBI
Glucocorticoid-induced insulin resistance in skeletal muscles: defects in insulin signalling and the effects of a selective glycogen synthase kinase-3 inhibitor

Over the course of the year I've been "Peating" I've had stints where I really struggled even when my diet and sleep remained relatively constant. Each time uncontrolled environmental stress (perceived or "real") had bubbled up in some capacity and remained unaddressed. Ten to twenty minutes of mindfulness practice and controlled breathing is usually all it takes to remedy it.
I don't think everyone necessarily needs to practice mindfulness but I definitely recommend it to those with a history of persistent "excitatory" thoughts and behaviors.

Absolutely, mental stress (cortisol) dumps stored energy into energy pathways, this can cause transient Skeletal IR to spare for brain and heart. But the fat cells will likely remain IS in this situation. Whether you gain or lose fat during these times will still be a matter of energy balance. Some people "eat their stress," others "starve it." Phisiological IR is still mainly caused my excess intake of unusable/unstoreable energy.

 

[kayumochi]

Nothing. Prove was probably not the right word. I just wanted to clarify in case some folks may interpret that to mean that fat, in and of itself, makes you fat.

what would we do if we didn't have you around to police this forum and keep its members safe from misinterpretation?

 

[James IV]

what would we do if we didn't have you around to police this forum and keep its members safe from misinterpretation?

You have no idea who is reading these things, and no idea what single comment people may cling on to. I work with people everyday that are sick. Some become hyper focused on a single idea or even a single statement, even though they are getting sicker and sicker. All I'm trying to do is offer some balance and alternative perspective. I rarely ever comment anymore, just occasionally. I apologize if it bothers you.

 

[lollipop]

You have no idea who is reading these things, and no idea what single comment people may cling on to. I work with people everyday that are sick. Some become hyper focused on a single idea or even a single statement, even though they are getting sicker and sicker. All I'm trying to do is offer some balance and alternative perspective. I rarely ever comment anymore, just occasionally. I apologize if it bothers you.

I appreciate this perspective: a healthy sense of responsibility to others. I have noticed this trait often in people that have explored Peat's work for a long period of time.

 

[paymanz]

Anti Obesity/diabetes Effects Of High Sucrose/low Fat Diet Comparing To Starch Or High Fat Diet

 

[James IV]

Anti Obesity/diabetes Effects Of High Sucrose/low Fat Diet Comparing To Starch Or High Fat Diet

But no one asked the mice how they felt.

 

[paymanz]

But no one asked the mice how they felt.

 

[paymanz]

I think I have to calculate what percent was their fat intake, maybe it wasn't that low after all.

But maybe even if they don't feel good during that type of diet it still worth to do for a short period, like few months.

Dr kempner's results comes into my mind..

 

[James IV]

I think I have to calculate what percent was their fat intake, maybe it wasn't that low after all.

But maybe even if they don't feel good during that type of diet it still worth to do for a short period, like few months.

Dr kempner's results comes into my mind..

For sure. I could definitly see an easily digestible, low toxin, high energy diet being helpful in the short term in certain cases.

 

[NathanK]

You have no idea who is reading these things, and no idea what single comment people may cling on to. I work with people everyday that are sick. Some become hyper focused on a single idea or even a single statement, even though they are getting sicker and sicker. All I'm trying to do is offer some balance and alternative perspective.

This is an underappreciated statement about health forums in general. Some ideas often turn into unshakable virus'.

It's interesting that you said IR is caused by lack of storage for excess energy and not stress induced fatty acids causing havoc. Largely considered a problem of obesity, that would account for "skinny" people that also have diabetes. The variable would be our inherited ability to store energy. In studies (including one I've posted), it's been shown that NEFA is tightly regulated regardless of adiposity.

 

[DaveFoster]

what would we do if we didn't have you around to police this forum and keep its members safe from misinterpretation?

He just rebutted your point by saying that calories matter more than macronutrient ratios. No need to get personal.

@James IV

What's your diet like at the moment?

 

[James IV]

He just rebutted your point by saying that calories matter more than macronutrient ratios. No need to get personal.

@James IV

What's your diet like at the moment?

I generally do my best to avoid Unsaturated oils, and artificial food additives (preservatives, colors, stabilizers, etc.)Also minimize real foods that are obviously difficult for digestion; like intact grains, nuts, fibrous veggies and fruits, and tough meats. Other than that I eat pretty freely. I don't know my macros but I would guess they are distributed fairly evenly. I do my best to follow cravings.

I usually eat larger meals, less often. Generally 2 meals a day. But occasionally I'll have days that I snack. Some days I'll fast longer periods if I am very busy, but I try to balance those days with days of relaxation and plenty of food.

Sunlight exposure at least a few days a week, and a few, non consecutive, days of heavy resistance training, makes my body much more tolerant to any "mistakes" in my nutrtion.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Insulin sensitivity or resistance are more complex than macronutrient composition.
Fats and carbs are digested through different pathways, passing through certain organs primarily. Fat passes through the lymphatic system to the heart then general circulation where muscle and adipose tissue uptake it depending on their respective energetic status'. Muscle cells utilize as fatty acids as their primary energy substrate in most circumstances, so you can expect your need for fat in the diet to be contingent on your muscle mass. Glucose on the other hand goes through the hepatic portal vein to the liver and then pancreas before general circulation. Most of us are aware that the brain and red blood cells almost exclusively run on glucose, with the liver and pancreas working to manage blood glucose levels. It makes sense the body evolved to work the way that it does. So what is the right amount of fat:carbs to have in the diet? The answer varies by individual depending on their activities and the subsequent energy status of different cells throughout the body. While I think physically active individuals probably do better with more fat in the diet (relative to sedentary individuals) given greater muscle mass , I don't think anyone really thrives on a high fat:low carb diet because of the Randle effect, the role of pyruvate in replenishing oxaloacetate for the citric acid cycle, and the additional CO2 produced from glycolysis.

"Muscle cells utilize as fatty acids as their primary energy substrate in most circumstances, so you can expect your need for fat in the diet to be contingent on your muscle mass"

Thank for this tid bit. I have cured a lot of problems with this. I have been lifting for many years and a conventional Bodybuilder diet makes me god awful. My friends think I am crazy drinking whole milk, eating a lot of butter, and ice cream. But my muscle mass just burns and burns.

 

[Braveheart]

I generally do my best to avoid Unsaturated oils, and artificial food additives (preservatives, colors, stabilizers, etc.)Also minimize real foods that are obviously difficult for digestion; like intact grains, nuts, fibrous veggies and fruits, and tough meats. Other than that I eat pretty freely. I don't know my macros but I would guess they are distributed fairly evenly. I do my best to follow cravings.

I usually eat larger meals, less often. Generally 2 meals a day. But occasionally I'll have days that I snack. Some days I'll fast longer periods if I am very busy, but I try to balance those days with days of relaxation and plenty of food.

Sunlight exposure at least a few days a week, and a few, non consecutive, days of heavy resistance training, makes my body much more tolerant to any "mistakes" in my nutrtion.

 

[kreeese]

I eat lots of fat 150 to 270 grams a day and lots of carbs...lost all my weight and finally got lean doin it this way.....secret of fat loss Thanks Ray Peat you guided me well
my older Brother!!

 

[somuch4food]

I eat lots of fat 150 to 270 grams a day and lots of carbs...lost all my weight and finally got lean doin it this way.....secret of fat loss Thanks Ray Peat you guided me well
my older Brother!!

Did you gain weight in the process? How long did it take?

I'm wondering since many seem to struggle with weight.