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charlie

charlie

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How about salt Charlie? Are you supplementing salt? Thx
I have a soup(coconut cream, zucchini, squash) on occasion that I add salt too. I broke my recent 17 day fruit fast with homemade fruit sushi, added salt to the rice.
What is your preference: yes to oilseeds such as fresh nuts, almonds, hazelnuts even if they're PUFA-laden?
No oils except for coconut oil and olive oil on occasion. Nuts have too much protein and also their oils.
Did Morse factor in the effects of anti-nutrients in seeds and nuts? Anti-nutrients are also known as enti-enzymes as they keep the seed from germinating. When soaked in water, these anti-enzymes deactivate and allow germination. Sprouts are a sign that germination has taken place and that anti-enzymes have been deactivated. Anti-enzymes interfere with our digestion.
Morse does not promote nuts. He promotes fruits, berries, melons, and herbs for regeneration and healing. Then you can come down to the vegetables for maintaining. Easy peasy.

I know plenty of country folk and they are not any more healthy, in fact some get sick just like city folk. Even the ones drinking farm fresh milk and day old eggs. The farm where we got raw milk for a few yrs the lady was very overweight and had a bunch of medical problems. The day old milk didn't cure her at all.
Morse grew up on a farm and on that diet of milk, eggs, etc, and he was sick. It was not until he moved to fruits and veggies did he heal. He has witnessed, along with many of us here, milk is very congestive, constipates, adds mucus to the body which then blocks the lymph system and sets up the body for acidosis.
 
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charlie

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I have trouble finding fruit that is ripe right now.
Getting really good grapes(red) right now, grapes are the majority of my diet right now. Something really special about grapes. Morse says if you are in a crisis situation, drop everything and grape fast for 40 days or as long as you can. Worked for me.

Strawberries, blueberries, lemons, good right now also. Got some good oranges recently. Dates and other dry fruits. Oh and apples, juiced fuji apples with juiced cranberries, delish! Got some decent honeydews lately, not the best but not bad.

Mono meals the best. Pick one fruit and that is your meal.
 
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charlie

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Cirion

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Morse grew up on a farm and on that diet of milk, eggs, etc, and he was sick. It was not until he moved to fruits and veggies did he heal. He has witnessed, along with many of us here, milk is very congestive, constipates, adds mucus to the body which then blocks the lymph system and sets up the body for acidosis.

I'm starting to realize this about milk sadly. Also ice cream. As much as I love my haagen dazs, I don't think it's helping me heal. There's more to foods than just macros and calories. I always wake up with a low temp with too much ice cream. It's too much of a sedative, sure it can help me get to sleep but I don't think it gives me good sleep quality. Case in point I slept 12+ hrs last night (!!!) and would say my sleep quality was definitely sub-par.

Also +1 on the grapes. Yesterday I had a major energy crisis (not enough sleep) and I completely perked up after a couple of pounds of grapes well salted.
 
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InChristAlone

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The trouble is most people drinking milk combine it with meat and other foods and I think that's a no no. If drinking a glass of milk it will digest the best as a mono meal. Dr. Kellogg used milk diets to heal very sick people. I have used raw milk to get over a cold very quickly. I basically just drank milk during the day.
 

opson123

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@charlie

I live in northern europe and almost all fruits are imported, expensive and poor quality. A kilo of organic poor quality grapes costs something like 10€. Which I just unfortunately can't afford.

The only fruits that are borderline acceptable are bananas, dates and raisins. Their quality is consistent and they are cheapish. As raisins are dried grapes, would normal or soaked raisins be okay to use on the 40 day grape fast instead of grapes?
 
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charlie

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The only fruits that are borderline acceptable are bananas, dates and raisins.
Could probably get good results with the dates and raisins. Both will make the kidneys filter very well. A lot of peeps do well on bananas too. But I think since they are both dry you would need fluid from some other kind of fruit or somewhere else.

As raisins are dried grapes, would normal or soaked raisins be okay to use on the 40 day grape fast instead of grapes?
Well, you do rely on the water inside the grape so I think soaking would need to be done if you used raisins for the bulk of your intake. Never heard of anyone doing that kind a fast with raisins. I know when using grapes and fruits I am never thirsty. If I go eat a protein meal I will get insanely thirsty. Morse says protein is incredibly dehydrating, while fruits are wonderfully hydrating.
 

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Personally I seem to be quite allergic to bananas, but that's just me. (even organic ones)

I definitely don't do well with raisins as compared to grapes. I think dehydrating the grape really negatively impacts its effects, I don't feel right after eating raisins and often times it actually brings my energy levels down. Perhaps it is just because I needed to soak them.
 
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Cirion

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Funny, on the subject of bananas, but the first person who made me consider that maybe calories in calories out isn't as simple as we think it is, and that carbohydrates are probably the answer for a large bulk of our calories, is so called "Banana Girl" who eats bananas in very large quantities. This was long before I found ray peat. I wasn't yet sold on the idea, but it did start to make me question things. I was always curious because she was so lean and yet ate incredible amounts of calories per day in the form of fruits.
 

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Personally I seem to be quite allergic to bananas, but that's just me. (even organic ones)

I definitely don't do well with raisins as compared to grapes. I think dehydrating the grape really negatively impacts its effects, I don't feel right after eating raisins and often times it actually brings my energy levels down. Perhaps it is just because I needed to soak them.
Yeh bananas are not so good for me either.
Same here. I can only tolerate one or two a day or else I get heartburn. I think for me it's the starch content even when I let them get super spotty.

I also have to soak dried fruit before eating it. I usually soak it in raw coconut water or distilled. It digests much better for me this way but IME, Charlie is right about dried fruit helping filtration. It's similar to the effects that dry fasting has on the kidneys.
 

tankasnowgod

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Funny, on the subject of bananas, but the first person who made me consider that maybe calories in calories out isn't as simple as we think it is, and that carbohydrates are probably the answer for a large bulk of our calories, is so called "Banana Girl" who eats bananas in very large quantities. This was long before I found ray peat. I wasn't yet sold on the idea, but it did start to make me question things. I was always curious because she was so lean and yet ate incredible amounts of calories per day in the form of fruits.

Do you think Calculus is simple? The Energy Balance Equation is absolutely rooted in Calculus, and both CI and CO are interdependent variables. Lyle McDonald explains perfectly- https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html/
 

Cirion

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I just have a pet peeve against most people who spout CICO is all which is why I tend to speak out against it. Counting calories ruined my health, so that's probably why I'm particularly antagonistic now to people who say to just count calories and go into a deficit and lose weight etc. Calories out is so complicated anyway. And so highly dependent upon not only the macros, but also the micros, and also even the food itself (organic vs inorganic, fruit vs starch, meat vs fish, etc etc etc) that counting calories just isn't helpful in the long run. In my opinion and experience. Not to mention my goal now is not fat loss, but optimizing health, which CICO tends to ignore (at least, most people who promote it).

Optimizing Hormones >>> worrying about CICO

CICO can be fun to think about I guess, but I don't know many people who have obtained health through being orthorexic about counting calories. It sure didn't work for me.

edit - my post may have sounded like it was particularly directed at you. Just to be clear it was not lol. I know you are just addressing a particular point.
 
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tankasnowgod

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I just have a pet peeve against most people who spout CICO is all which is why I tend to speak out against it. Counting calories ruined my health, so that's probably why I'm particularly antagonistic now to people who say to just count calories and go into a deficit and lose weight etc. Calories out is so complicated anyway. And so highly dependent upon not only the macros, but also the micros, and also even the food itself (organic vs inorganic, fruit vs starch, meat vs fish, etc etc etc) that counting calories just isn't helpful in the long run. In my opinion and experience. Not to mention my goal now is not fat loss, but optimizing health, which CICO tends to ignore (at least, most people who promote it).

Optimizing Hormones >>> worrying about CICO

CICO can be fun to think about I guess, but I don't know many people who have obtained health through being orthorexic about counting calories. It sure didn't work for me.

edit - my post may have sounded like it was particularly directed at you. Just to be clear it was not lol. I know you are just addressing a particular point.

No worries. In fact, I tend to agree with pretty much everything you said here. I probably share your pet peeve with most that shout about it. I guess the point I'm making is that when most people talk about CICO, they assume it's either simply counting, or addition. I think a better rebuke to them, instead of saying "I don't believe in that," would be "Stop trying to reduce a complex algebraic formula down to simple addition and subtraction." Very few people have thought about the points that Lyle McDonald has in his article.

Another point, as taken from his article.... most people assume unwanted weight is fat. I'm sure a lot of it is. But notice, Lyle mentions that you can put ANY amount of water on either side of the equation, and nothing has changed. Edema (minor or major) could be a big source of unwanted weight.

I have been thinking a lot about this this month, and will be putting together a lot of my ideas, and a log, on it in the new year. And yes, I will not be consciously restricting calories, nor pushing excess movement and exercise.
 

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Hi @yerrag, I'm not sure if I'm understanding your question correctly. I've been on mainly just fruit since 2015 and on predominantly fruit for roughly 9 of the last 12/13 years, and I know of others who have been fruitarian for decades so yes, it can happen.
So it can be a lifestyle for some, but no one's holding you to it then? If and when one is healed, one can 'backslide" into food other fruits but not feel bad about it right?
No oils except for coconut oil and olive oil on occasion. Nuts have too much protein and also their oils.
Is this you or is this also what Morse advocates?
Morse does not promote nuts. He promotes fruits, berries, melons, and herbs for regeneration and healing. Then you can come down to the vegetables for maintaining. Easy peasy.
This probably answers my previous question.
Getting really good grapes(red) right now, grapes are the majority of my diet right now. Something really special about grapes. Morse says if you are in a crisis situation, drop everything and grape fast for 40 days or as long as you can. Worked for me.
Probably a good idea if you can access fresh grapes, not having to buy imported ones. Seems not a good idea for me as the grapes I find I don't really know what pesticides and preservatives are sprayed on them, since they have to stay nice and looking fresh after traveling the seas to the buyer. It could very well a case of having the medicine as well as the poison, which lowers definitely the angstrom value.

And then with raisins, I'm concerned about sulfites/sulfates? used as preservative for regularly processed raisins. Not sure if that's a valid concern though.
Yeh bananas are not so good for me either. But then I see people eating them by the case. So they must work for some.
You should try other varieties, as bananas you find in the US are the Dole/Del Monte/United Fruit type bananas from banana republics. They're a monoculture, essentially clones of each other of the Cavendish variety. In the Philippines, we have a large variety but the ones I eat are the lakatan, the latundan, and the saba. And what's interesting is that the latundan helps firm bowels, or is constipatory, while the lakatan isn't, and the saba, while it can be eaten raw, I usually have it boiled with the skin, as it softens its texture and somehow makes it sweeter. The saba can also be fried and coated in sugar, and served with skewers.

Now, I eat bananas regularly as it's a rich source of potassium, isn't expensive, and it's what Morse calls the perfect fruit because it doesn't have to be ripe to be picked. It still ripens and gets sweeter even when picked before it's ripe. He says with other fruits they don't ripen but ferment.

And this was a fruit I used to avoid because in less enlightened days, I believed it has a high glycemic index and that it causes me to have a sugar spike, and led me to a hypoglycemic state in a few hours. But I have since realized that it's not the banana that was at fault, it's my body's sugar metabolism that needed fixing. And years of avoiding PUFA did the trick.
 
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Cirion

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No worries. In fact, I tend to agree with pretty much everything you said here. I probably share your pet peeve with most that shout about it. I guess the point I'm making is that when most people talk about CICO, they assume it's either simply counting, or addition. I think a better rebuke to them, instead of saying "I don't believe in that," would be "Stop trying to reduce a complex algebraic formula down to simple addition and subtraction." Very few people have thought about the points that Lyle McDonald has in his article.

Another point, as taken from his article.... most people assume unwanted weight is fat. I'm sure a lot of it is. But notice, Lyle mentions that you can put ANY amount of water on either side of the equation, and nothing has changed. Edema (minor or major) could be a big source of unwanted weight.

I have been thinking a lot about this this month, and will be putting together a lot of my ideas, and a log, on it in the new year. And yes, I will not be consciously restricting calories, nor pushing excess movement and exercise.

Yes fair enough. CICO is a very fluid moving target and its precisely that its so complex that I don't find a ton of value of worrying too much about picking a specific value for it besides the fact that "cutting" is a great way to become hypothyroid or exasperate existing hypo conditions as I learned the hard way lol.
 

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