Queequeg

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Could you share the vitamin c supplement you use?
BulkSupplements.. I posted this on another thread
according to labdoor BulkSupplements has the best Vitamin C. It's probably GMO derived but as said before at the molecular level that probably doesnt matter anymore.
Still not sure why Ray is so anti C. these contaminants are pretty low

here are the contaminants as tested by labdoor
Bulk Supplements Vitamin C Review
less than 0.01 mcg of total arsenic per serving
less than 0.01 mcg of cadmium per serving.
less than 0.005 mcg of lead per serving.
less than 0.01 mcg of mercury per serving.
serving size used is 1 gram so numbers are equivalent to ppm
 

tankasnowgod

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I have been taking 6-10 grams of vitamin C daily for a while now myself. Many people advocate upwards of 20 grams vitamin C for maintenance, and more if you're unhealthy. I think 20 grams is about the max you can take a day though without IV intervention, due to... bowel movements I'll say lol.

I believe dosages as high as 500-2000 grams (not a typo) were used in the olden days for some diseases like pneumonia or polio.

Vitamin C is hardly a new thing, it's only being rediscovered is all.

I don't know if you saw the video of Dr. Cathcart I posted in the other thread, but he discussed the bowel tolerance issue. He found that healthy people could only take 10-20 grams normally, but might go up to 50,100, or more grams (orally) if they had a cold. He mentioned that one female patient that had taken one pound of Vitamin C over a two day period.
 

InChristAlone

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Vitamin A actually makes a good cancer treatment as it works like a chemo drug in high doses. I'd prefer that over chemo any day.
 

jondoeuk

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I'm not following this logic. So they survived for several more months. I mean.... Is that SOC? Being able to live with a deadly cancer for a few more months? I'd say just give me pailliative care if that's the case! I don't want to be sick beyond belief in my final days.

The ECOG performance status is way one first-line therapy is chosen https://ecog-acrin.org/resources/ecog-performance-status For those with 0 or 1 it's usually FOLFIRINOX. In those with 2 then nab-paclitaxel plus gemcitabine. The median (half do better and half worse) survival for those who don't want to be treated is 1-4 months. With nab-paclitaxel plus gemcitabine it improves to 8.5 months and with FOLFIRINOX it's just over 11 months.

In patients refractory to gemcitabine doctors can use capecitabine alone or with erlotinib http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.2007.11.8521 Irinotecan is another option http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)00986-1/fulltext
 

InChristAlone

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The ECOG performance status is way one first-line therapy is chosen https://ecog-acrin.org/resources/ecog-performance-status For those with 0 or 1 it's usually FOLFIRINOX. In those with 2 then nab-paclitaxel plus gemcitabine. The median (half do better and half worse) survival for those who don't want to be treated is 1-4 months. With nab-paclitaxel plus gemcitabine it improves to 8.5 months and with FOLFIRINOX it's just over 11 months.

In patients refractory to gemcitabine doctors can use capecitabine alone or with erlotinib http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.2007.11.8521 Irinotecan is another option http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)00986-1/fulltext
That's still pretty dismal. They still die after diagnosis. I mean they aren't getting cured. The drug companies are just raping them of money before they do die.
 
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haidut

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@haidut, what do you think about Ray Peat's stance on vitamin C supplements?

"Over the next 20 years, my own increased sensitivity to synthetic ascorbate led me to look for such reactions in others. The same people who reacted to it often reacted similarly to riboflavin and rutin, which were also made from cornstarch by oxidation. I ascribed the reaction to some industrial contaminant that they had in common, possibly the heavy metals introduced with the sulfuric acid. The heavy metal contamination of synthetic ascorbate is so great that one 500 mg tablet dissolved in a liter of water produces free radicals at a rate that would require a killing dose of x-rays to equal. The only clean and safe vitamin C now available is that in fresh fruits, meats, etc. The commercial stuff is seriously dangerous." - Ray Peat

I am sure he has a point but even with all of its toxicities a therapy with vitamin C and methylene blue or another quinone is probably much less dangerous than the chemotherapy drugs that destroy (by design) every organ in your body.
 

Cirion

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Nate Hatch says that the problem with Vitamin C supplementation may be due to the quality of it (as RP alludes to). A solution is to get a good source such as non-GMO corn, which is what mine is derived from. Scott Schelegel suggests using Acerola Powder for vitamin C.
 

Jennifer

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Scott Schelegel suggests using Acerola Powder for vitamin C.
There's also a fruit called gubinge (terminalia ferdinandiana) that is native to Australia. It's supposedly one of the highest verified natural sources of vitamin C on the planet. I've seen it sold in powder form online.
 
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Whichway?

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How about taking 1 to 2 gram of vitamin C orally?

Vit C gets taken up in the gut through a transporter mechanism, which in layman’s terms acts as a gate and limits the amount and rate at which it can come in. Therefore the level in the blood and therefore the level that is available to all the cells in the body is much less than when they give it to you by IV. IVs are anywhere from 20 - 100 grams in a single IV push over about 20-30 mins.

Taking Vit C orally you can take doses up to 2g several times a day, but the amount you can absorb orally is limited to around that 2g amount each time.
 

rei

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Vitamin C is hardly a new thing, it's only being rediscovered is all.

"Rediscovered" as in acceptance of what has been known for decades.
Vit C gets taken up in the gut through a transporter mechanism, which in layman’s terms acts as a gate and limits the amount and rate at which it can come in. Therefore the level in the blood and therefore the level that is available to all the cells in the body is much less than when they give it to you by IV. IVs are anywhere from 20 - 100 grams in a single IV push over about 20-30 mins.

Taking Vit C orally you can take doses up to 2g several times a day, but the amount you can absorb orally is limited to around that 2g amount each time.
But liposomal forms are taken up directly, and into the cell directly without transporters.
 

Whichway?

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But liposomal forms are taken up directly, and into the cell directly without transporters.

That's a good point and correct. The liposomes do bypass the transporters. However, unfortunately I found this paper (Liposomal-encapsulated Ascorbic Acid: Influence on Vitamin C Bioavailability and Capacity to Protect Against Ischemia–Reperfusion Injury) which suggests that an equal dose of 4g orally, either with or without liposomal encapsulation is still not able to get close to the level achievable when delivering the same 4g intravenously (see attached file below).
 

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Logan-

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Me: Is the liposomal method of delivery of nutrients good? I made my own liposomal C from a formula obtained from the web. I had to use high-phosphatidylcholine lecithin for it. When I took it, I couldn't sleep the whole night as I felt hungry and low in blood sugar. I suspect it was the PUFA that caused it. I stopped using liposomal after this experience. Is there a good basis for me staying away from liposomal formulations?

Ray: The liposomal formulations are entirely for marketing. Things like insulin can be dissolved in oil, and the digestive process incorporates the oil into chylomicrons, i.e., liposomes.
 

Lyall

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With regards to the vitamin C and Methylene blue combo. Would one ingest them at the same time?
 

jondoeuk

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That's still pretty dismal. They still die after diagnosis. I mean they aren't getting cured. The drug companies are just raping them of money before they do die.

There are many reasons why like liver mets and many of the cancer cells have already become resistance to chemo even before treatment Molecular Background of Chemoresistance in Pancreatic Cancer The stroma is another Role of pancreatic stellate cells in chemoresistance in pancreatic cancer The Pancreas Cancer Microenvironment https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/path.4172 Desmoplasia and Chemoresistance in Pancreatic Cancer

I know pharma and others are trying to produce better treatments such as immunotherapies https://www.mdanderson.org/newsroom...innovative-approach-to-pancreatic-cancer.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...r-treatment-using-survivors-sells-tested.html
 

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