High Dose Niacinamide Experiment

[haidut]

If I am not mistaken, those are symptoms of lowered serotonin caroline. I get those from ondansetron and many others on this forum have experienced similar sensations as well. Keep us posted on how it unfolds.

 

[charlie]

Yes, clear thoughts and clearer eyesight has been reported with ondansetron.

 

[Peata]

If I am not mistaken, those are symptoms of lowered serotonin caroline. I get those from ondansetron and many others on this forum have experienced similar sensations as well. Keep us posted on how it unfolds.

So you don't get that same experience with your high, yet spread-out dose of niacinamide? You only have it when you take one real high dose at once like Caroline?

 

[caroline]

What do you all mean about symptoms of lowered serotonin? Meaning, b/c I didn't feel nauseous? Or the vision...Peata, I actually did feel pretty warm. My palms are kind of clammy warm and I did take off my jacket so I had barely anything on b/c I felt warm.

It is like everything is waking up and this is despite the fact that I am overtired from getting so little sleep last night. I have a feeling about this. I feel as though my brain has been underwater so that everything I do, takes extra effort. This seems to indicate that correction is in order. I sincerely hope so, so life becomes less difficult. I had a feeling I would react differently to it. Like you Charlie, I figure I have nothing to lose as I have been so uncomfortable across the board for so long.

 

[caroline]

The little floater spots that are usually in front of my eyes seemed to dissipate and my vision became clear like it does when you are at the eye doctor and they put the super high power goggle things on you so you can see perfectly.

 

[charlie]

Lowered serotonin makes you think clearer, see clearer, perceive clearer, hear clearer even. I think it was Peat(please dont quote me on this because its fuzzy) that said serotonin acts something like a mask, or filter, or something to the effect that does not allow information to get through to the brain like it should.

 

[Peata]

I'm always up for an experiment on myself too. I'm playing around with niacinamide. Nowhere near the high doses of some of ya'll but just seeing what happens with this dose or that.

A little while ago, I took 500 mg. I notice it kicks in rather quickly. I took Progest-E as well. I'm not sure if taking Progest-E enhanced something, but I'm quite relaxed very quickly. As much as when I took 1 g. the other day.

 

[aguilaroja]

The person I know of with the most experience with large amounts of niacinamide was William Kaufman (MD, PhD). He used large doses of niacinamide to treat arthritis (in practice for decades), sometimes with startling good results. Hoffer and Kaufman communicated, but I think Kaufman was especially interested in the amide form niacin. Andrew Saul's site has links to many Kaufman documents:

http://www.doctoryourself.com/kaufman.html

I have been under the impression that Kaufman suggested dividing niacinamide into as many doses as was practical during the day. (I recall something about at least 4 times per day dosing.) When I have used large total doses, frequent (smaller) dosing has reduced side effects of nausea and bloating.

If someone goes the route of using tyrosine as well, consider doing that earlier in the day, as tyrosine (apart from the serotonin lowering effect) can be stimulating. In writing, Dr. Peat has been cautious about single form amino acids. I'm mentioning this for those who decide to apply single form amino acids for their situation.

Been nauseous on and off today. Up to 2500 mgs so far. Considering stopping at 4000 mgs if the nausea does not go away. I planned on going to 5000 mgs but not sure about that now.

Yeah, I had that too initially. I think somebody posted a quote from Hoffer about people feeling nausea due to elevated liver enzymes. The recommendation is to stop and wait to subside, then try to (carefully) work your dose up to that level again until you are comfortable. Elevated enzymes normalize in 1-2 days and people have been slowly tetrated up to 10g a day in some cases.
Now you know why I recommended starting slow and with split dosage and then slowly combining them
Anyways, give it a rest and maybe you can revisit. Like I said before, to me niacinamide is just like LSD and it acts in a very similar way. Nausea is common for first time LSD users as well.
If you just want to reduce serotonin, take gelatin with some BCAA and tyrosine as supplements and you actually lower your serotonin synthesis since it interferes with the absorption of tryptophan from food and blood.
Keep us posted. For me it was a very good learning experience b/c I learned how much I can mess with my body.

I will probably push on for one more day, and see how it goes. I sincerely appreciate all your advice though so please dont stop! lol I too like to push my body to see the effects and what nots. I am thinking my nausea is worse then it should be because I am super tired from having to many late nights this week. Going to bed early tonight hopefully.

Took 5,000 mg at once about 2 hours ago. Was prepared for stupor, but it is not having that effect on me. Information is going in smoothly. Reading complex passages and comprehension is improved. Actual vision (as in sight) is clearer as well. Heightened clarity--obvious due to accuracy on the passages, despite not being in top form, not having slept more than 5 hours the prior night due to having to help out a friend with moving.

Dang girl!! Making me feel like a lightweight now!

Thats so cool about being much more clearer. Please keep updating!!

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

So I thought I would chime in on my experience with niacinamide this week. I started taking 500 mg x 3, six days ago IIRC. It has caused a pretty dramatic shift in anxious thinking towards a more relaxed and positive state and in increase in warmth. It even makes my stomach cramps go away that I experience almost every day... I noticed it the same day I started taking it. It really shifted my perception outward towards the things around me.

But yesterday, I had some weird effects and ended up with a supressed appetite. After laying under 750 watts of heat lamps for a couple hours, my feet started to get icy and followed by strong brain fog and finally a strong adrenaline response with a bpm of something like 150. I had to drink a couple glasses of ridiculously salty and sugary milk along with a glass of oj to feel good. It was so odd to me because the milk tasted like water and there was a huge amount of sugar at the bottom that was basically flavorless. But the second glass tasted really good. Then I started bag breathing and it made me feel euphoric. I passed out immediately there after.

At first I attributed it to taking more like 2000 mg that day, but I think what happened in reality, was that I essentially got cocky and stopped focusing on getting enough salt, and sugar. I was craving cheese quite a bit (Which is obviously a salt craving for me) and let my self eat a lot of allergenic cheese the past couple days. The exess protein was perhaps blunting my appetite in combination with salt depletion. Finally sitting under powerful heat lamps just ran me dry. Today, I wanted to see how I felt without it and who would of guessed, all of my symptoms returned until just an hour ago when I took 500mg again. Instantaneous anxiety relief, stomach pain gone, etc...

Also, my pet rat died today

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

I forgot to mention, it also drastically reduces my body odor and my tongue gunk is reduced.

 

[charlie]

I forgot to mention, it also drastically reduces my body odor and my tongue gunk is reduced.

Interesting, yesterday I noticed my tongue was really clear.

So to me this seems like an improvement in liver function maybe?

 

[charlie]

So I thought I would chime in on my experience with niacinamide this week. I started taking 500 mg x 3, six days ago IIRC. It has caused a pretty dramatic shift in anxious thinking towards a more relaxed and positive state and in increase in warmth. It even makes my stomach cramps go away that I experience almost every day... I noticed it the same day I started taking it. It really shifted my perception outward towards the things around me.

But yesterday, I had some weird effects and ended up with a supressed appetite. After laying under 750 watts of heat lamps for a couple hours, my feet started to get icy and followed by strong brain fog and finally a strong adrenaline response with a bpm of something like 150. I had to drink a couple glasses of ridiculously salty and sugary milk along with a glass of oj to feel good. It was so odd to me because the milk tasted like water and there was a huge amount of sugar at the bottom that was basically flavorless. But the second glass tasted really good. Then I started bag breathing and it made me feel euphoric. I passed out immediately there after.

At first I attributed it to taking more like 2000 mg that day, but I think what happened in reality, was that I essentially got cocky and stopped focusing on getting enough salt, and sugar. I was craving cheese quite a bit (Which is obviously a salt craving for me) and let my self eat a lot of allergenic cheese the past couple days. The exess protein was perhaps blunting my appetite in combination with salt depletion. Finally sitting under powerful heat lamps just ran me dry. Today, I wanted to see how I felt without it and who would of guessed, all of my symptoms returned until just an hour ago when I took 500mg again. Instantaneous anxiety relief, stomach pain gone, etc...

Very interesting, please keep us updated if you can.

Also, my pet rat died today

Sorry to hear about your rat.

 

[caroline]

Also, sorry to hear about your rat. I often think about getting a pet rat!

So the specifics I notice since niacinamide dosing are: it is not so much that I am thinking clearer; as I read passages, the words are literally clearer. I think there has been some optical disturbance that makes it challenging to take words in in an orderly fashion. It is like they were scattered about and now they are lined up properly.

Also, I feel this pleasant "high" in the very pit of my stomach. It is not like the amped sense one gets from too much caffeine. I didn't have any. So far, I took 1500 mg. at once. Does NOT make me sleepy. I am very happy with the effects so far and am looking forward to improvement. I will not be taking high dose again; it didn't bother me, but I don't see the point of it after the initial experiment.

 

[Lisbon boy]

I took last night 3X550 mgs niacinamide ( Solgar ) and today i took at breakfast and lunch another 2X550 mgs and i feel that niacinamide is a must powerful anti-serotoninergic than ondansetron. By far...

 

[charlie]

My super high dose experiment is over. It started causing me anxiety, feeling on edge, just really off. Today I went back to small doses, and feeling much better.

The high doses definitely lowers serotonin. I had to double and triple my cascara sagrada to make it do what it usually does. And today I did not lower the dose(cascara) and OMG I have overshot it by significant amount. Needless to say I am completely cleaned out.

 

[jyb]

I'd echo Charlie and Lisbon boy's comments on low serotonin and ondansetron. For me it also seems to slow down transit a bit, however nothing painful like ondansetron (where the constipation does ache a bit).

Actually, haidut wrote about this a few pages back:

Constipation is a very good sign, but it usually only tells you about gut serotonin, which is still good to know. Many people on this forum have gut issues, and I also posted studies that reducing specifically gut serotonin is VERY anabolic for the bones. It even reverses established osteoporosis. I certainly got constipated on my niacinamide. LotioCrafter sells a niacinamide powder so I am using that for my self-studies. The first time I used high dose niacinamide in a pill form from the the local store I got a visit from the liquid brown fairy.

However I don't notice much psychological effect even at 3g in a single dose. I use Thorne's niacinamide. So neither positive not negative in the short term (24hrs).

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

So some scary ***t happened tonight. My dad brought home some cubed potatoes for use in other food dishes from the food plant he works at. They were in a huge sealed plastic bag and the pieces were very moist. After the fact, I wonder if they had some chemical additive to retain moisture? Well, I fried probably a medium-large potatoes worth and peeled any skins I saw. After I ate them my gums swelled a bit and I developed swollen liquid filled patches all over the inside of my mouth. This has happened before, just not this bad. I started to feel off almost immediately but not horribly so. I went into the bathroom and noticed my pupils were seriously dilated and just randomly changing size without me refocusing. Here's the thing, i took 500mg of niacinamide a few mins before eating the taters. So i managed to fall asleep pretty quickly only to awake about 45 minutes later. I was burning up, experiencing hot flashes and sweating. I also felt like i was having an asthma attack.... My lungs felt dry and my throat felt a bit swollen. My breathing was shallow and i felt like i needed to gasp for air every 20 seconds or so but felt no relief. Very stressed, anxious, and sort of out of it. It was worst in the first 30 minutes of symptoms but it lasted nearly 2 hours. I started bag breathing at one point and it helped a lot. I know i have problems with histamine but have never experienced anything that bad. Do you think the niacinamide slowed the movement of the potato by not allowing serotonin induced contractions and thereby allowing me to suffer additional histamine? Or do i have a misunderstanding of this stuff. Because I felt vomity but no stomach rumblings.

I took 500mg when i woke up, 1000mg after 8 hrs, then 500mg again after 8 hrs and ate.

Also, i actually ate about half that amount of the same potatoes about two hours earlier. I don't think it made me feel too bad the first time. Perhaps i overloaded on the histamine? Oj seems to do it too and i had a bit at some point.

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

I think i have problems with potatoes just about every time i eat them. I don't know much about histamine for seemingly having a lot of problems with it. I get the gaspy feeling all the time, just not very bad.

It took about 3 hrs for me to feel mostly normal.
Normally something like this would have seriously freaked me out, but the niacinamide makes me feel adamant in a way..


Prior to this, today i had a fantastic time at a friends birthday and was way more sociable then usual. I was also able to read with a level of focus ive never experienced.

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

Honestly thinking back, I've had a similar reaction to these very same potatoes in the past. My dad has brought them home on several occasions but I usually steer clear. IIRC it was accompanied with strong stomach cramps and probably didn't last as long. But it's hard to say, because my serotonin was so elevated that I felt completely disassociated when it happened. I will have to avoid those suckers at all costs. In the other thread about niacinamide, there was that study that said it raised histamine, but also said it raised serum serotonin, so I don't know what to think about that.

Also, I've noticed I'm constipated like hell right now and every time I eat I feel the histamine type response again temporarily. Because each new meal is moving things along I suppose? All I had was milk with sugar which never seems to cause me any problem.

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

Last post lol. So the changes in pupil size was probably normal in adjustment to my bathroom lighting. I just felt so weird and was more perceptive of it. So the plant my dad works at has lost several buyers because of a recent food contamination. They basically broke down the entire plant and cleaned everything these past couple weeks. It's on the verge of being closed down if they don't pass inspection again. So my dad said they have probably been putting different chemicals in the water that moves the potatoes. He said it stinks of chemical cleaners right now and even burns his eyes. So... it's basically my fault for eating that trash. I'm still wondering if the niacinamide intensified or lengthened the suffering.