High Dose Niacinamide Experiment

[Braveheart]

As I mentioned in another post - feeling overtired or about to get a "bug", knowing that there would be a lot of stress at work or home, knowing there will be prolonged travel and/or days of poor food/sleep, prolonged absence of sunshine due to bad weather, etc.

yes, I get that...what I should have asked...do you track nutrients?....like try to meet rda's or ? ...how do you meet "as needed"?

 

[haidut]

yes, I get that...what I should have asked...do you track nutrients?....like try to meet rda's or ? ...how do you meet "as needed"?

No, I don't track nutrients. I avoid PUFA, starch, legumes and try to not overdo the muscle meats. So far I have not encountered deficiencies based on blood tests, which of course could be misleading.

 

[Braveheart]

I do track and eat similar...only require two doses Estroban and I'm good...thanks

I do track and eat similar...only require two doses Estroban and I'm good...for the week, that is...

 

[ddjd]

Mittir, thanks for chiming in.

I think I am already noticing my liver calling for more sugar.

i get palpitations if i dont have enough sugar with the niacinamide

 

[ddjd]

Niacinamide, for me, brings back the childhood quality of sleep - go to bed and wake up in the morning in the same position I fell asleep.

i get this same sleep quality effect from k2 menatetrenone. i take 2.5mg-5mg at night before bed and it has truely incredible effects on quality of sleep. any ideas how haidut? would 5mg of k2 a day be too much to take long term.

 

[haidut]

i get this same sleep quality effect from k2 menatetrenone. i take 2.5mg-5mg at night before bed and it has truely incredible effects on quality of sleep. any ideas how haidut? would 5mg of k2 a day be too much to take long term.

I can second that, in doses of 5mg - 10mg. The proposed mechanism of action is increase in GABA synthesis. Vitamin K increases activity of the enzyme that uses up glutamate and produces GABA as output. This suggests it is possibly good for depression as well as high glutamate is implicated there. Coincidentally, most people with depression have very poor sleep and it improves along with treatment. So, good sleep is usually a good surrogate for mental (and physical) health.

 

[churchmouth]

I was using very high doses when I go these effects. The experiment was with 4g - 8g in a single dose to test the serotonin inhibition. Again, not sure why even 1,000mg would be causing constipation. Maybe try a lower dose. Even 500mg is enough to protect the liver from endotoxin and improve sugar metabolism.

How does one measure the serotonin inhibition in this experiement?

 

[haidut]

How does one measure the serotonin inhibition in this experiement?

Blood tests for platelet aggregation and prolactin.

 

[tomisonbottom]

When I used niacinamide in high doses 1000mg+ it completely cured any digestive issues- like I was eating pints of ice cream with zero digestive issues, which I could never do even with betaine HCL and digestive enzymes.
I'm pretty fine now I'm on my regimen- but I want to add niacinamide back in with the combo of caffeine. I stopped it due to feeling sedated on it. I just liked the fact from niacinamide that it literally keeps any water retention any digestive stress to virtually zero, I feel my metabolism is in overdrive, which is awesome- also put my libido in overdrive along with heavy sleep (which could be good or bad).

3-4 grams. I notice effects from 500mg but nothing that noticeable in terms of digestion- more of the cognitive effects. Try taking a minimum of 1 gram or more.

How long did you take 3-4 grams for?

Did you take it with other b vitamins or on it's own? Which brand of niacinamide?

 

[japanesedude]

500mg Niacinmaide almost completely blocked steress react from 200mg Caffeine.
sedative and focus. adding 500mg Glycine enchances relaxing effects even more.
only thing that I disappointed is 500mg Niacinamide + 3g Glycine along with food before bed didn't really help my insomnia.

 

[dand]

Initially, I'd recommend splitting the 4,000mg in several dosages of 1500mg each, and maybe make the last one 2,000mg (at night). At 2,000mg you should have a very good night sleep with no awakenings and NO dreams. I am not sure where Peat mentioned that, but vivid dreams happen when the body is not in deep sleep and is usually caused by too much serotonin/melatonin. Niacinamide, for me, brings back the childhood quality of sleep - go to bed and wake up in the morning in the same position I fell asleep. Only magnesium bicarbonate (at dosage 500mg elemental magnesium) has managed to do that for me other than niacinamide. It is also achievable with progesterone but, for me at least, progesterone acts like a true general anesthesia - knocks me out but when I wake up I feel like I have not been sleeping or something. For restful sleep do not take more than 300mg oral progesterone (I am using micronized pill product from Europe called Utrogestan).
Anyways, I am digressing here. If you feel OK with the split dosages, then add some of them up. So, instead of doing 3 divided doses do two doses of 2,000mg each. Once you are OK with that then start adding more to the dosage you take before bed. So, a third dosage would be 1500mg during the day and 2500mg at night. Next day would be 1000mg during day and 3000mg at night. Do that until you can take 4,000mg at night in one sitting. See how that affects you. If it's all rozy and good then see if you can check yourself for signs of reduced serotonin. Constipation is a very good sign, but it usually only tells you about gut serotonin, which is still good to know. Many people on this forum have gut issues, and I also posted studies that reducing specifically gut serotonin is VERY anabolic for the bones. It even reverses established osteoporosis. I certainly got constipated on my niacinamide. LotioCrafter sells a niacinamide powder so I am using that for my self-studies. The first time I used high dose niacinamide in a pill form from the the local store I got a visit from the liquid brown fairy.
The study I posted says that Human Equivalent Dose (HED) of 4,000mg manages to lower moderately elevated levels of serotonin in all of the rats. So, these were rats with artificially elevated serotonin. Can't remember the exact plasma levels but I did do some calculations on my own and translating them to humans would be in the range of someone taking SSRI for years. So, a dose of 4,000mg would be good for someone to get over their years of SSRI (ab)use.
A dose of 8,000mg fully abolished ALL serotonin effects in ALL rats who had serotonin levels twice as high as the rats in the 4,000mg group, and I think the plasma levels were over 70% lower. That would be the equivalent of stopping in its tracks a case of full blown serotonin syndrome in a human.
At that dose the rats were VERY sedated and so was I for the next day or so, but the effects do wear off fairly quickly and it's not like hangover where after drinking you have to face hell the next day. With this, you just spend a day in mellow-dreamy-land and the following day you are back to normal with a bit of side effects of much calmer temper. I used to get annoyed at things like people chewing loudly or walking slowly in front me on a busy sidewalk. Now, I don't even notice it. Not sure if it's a good thing though...At work they kinda expect to see me (and everybody else) always on edge and when you are floating effortlessly around, suddenly everyone notices and says you are acting weirdly calm, like a storm is coming afterwards.
Anyways, just my impressions. Very curious to hear your results!

P.S. For the especially adventurous, after you get used to the high doses of niacinamide I'd add some BCAA (5g) and some L-tyrosine (3g) for an even stronger kick. I would take that dose with EACH dose of niacinamide. So, if you are taking 4,000mg once a day in the evening then just take the BCAA/tyrosine combo once. If you take more but lower doses of niacinamide during day take the 5g of BCAA and 3g of tyrosine with each dose. The BCAA/tyrosine combo will lower the amount of serotonin produced and the niacinamide will negate any effects serotonin has on any tissues and lower its levels even more.
But one thing at a time. Niacinamide log first and then maybe we add the BCAA/tyrosine.

@haidut great thread here. I have been reviewing more about niacinamide. I’ve been taking around a gram a day and may try going up to 4 grams just to see how it feels. A gram or even less before bed is powerfully sedating and I sleep hard and wake up refreshed. Everything about the product I’m taking feels like niacinamide, however, I am definitely not constipated. If anything it’s the opposite though I wouldn’t call it diarrhea. I got this from pure bulk supplements which generally seems like a good brand. Do you think if in really high doses it doesn’t constipate me that I ought to try lotioncrafter? Everything else feels like niacinamide as there is also a powerful anti-anxiety effect.

 

[sladerunner69]

I can second that, in doses of 5mg - 10mg. The proposed mechanism of action is increase in GABA synthesis. Vitamin K increases activity of the enzyme that uses up glutamate and produces GABA as output. This suggests it is possibly good for depression as well as high glutamate is implicated there. Coincidentally, most people with depression have very poor sleep and it improves along with treatment. So, good sleep is usually a good surrogate for mental (and physical) health.

Interesting, I am currently using supplements like caffiene and niacinimide, 5adhp with the intention of increasing GABA synthesis in the brain. When I take k2 or aspirin or vitamin E, I become irritable, or even emotionless. Any idea why? I do have post finasteride syndrome, and I think my GABA, progesterobe, allopregenelone production is impaired.

 

[haidut]

Interesting, I am currently using supplements like caffiene and niacinimide, 5adhp with the intention of increasing GABA synthesis in the brain. When I take k2 or aspirin or vitamin E, I become irritable, or even emotionless. Any idea why? I do have post finasteride syndrome, and I think my GABA, progesterobe, allopregenelone production is impaired.

The 5a-DHP will not increase GABA signalling, it simply acts as GABA agonist but is not a very potent one. Not sure what is causing the irritability, but progesterone-like steroids including 5aa-DHP and progesterone itself can lead to irritability as I mentioned in another thread. I would try lower doses and even stop the steroids for a few days to see what is the cause.

 

[Philjay]

Niacin for high cholesterol. Nicotinic acid, not niacinamide.

 

[Jam]

"...Nicotinamide increases the biosynthesis of ceramides, which upon degradation produce sphingosine. Sphingosine inhibits protein kinase C (PKC) and decreases basal cell proliferation dependent on PKC..."

Food for the thoughts ©

LATEST! Individuals With Elevated Levels Of Acid Ceramidase And Sphingosine In Blood Likely To Become Asymptomatic When Infected With SARS-CoV-2! - Thailand Medical News

A new ground breaking study led by oncology researchers from the Medical University of South Carolina has found that individuals with elevated levels of the lipid Sphingosine and a protein that it involved in its production called Acid Ceramidase (AC) in their blood were most likely to become...

www.thailandmedical.news

Alterations of lipid metabolism provide serologic biomarkers for the detection of asymptomatic versus symptomatic COVID-19 patients - Scientific Reports

COVID-19 pandemic exerts a health care emergency around the world. The illness severity is heterogeneous. It is mostly unknown why some individuals who are positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies stay asymptomatic while others show moderate to severe disease symptoms. Reliable biomarkers for early...

www.nature.com

Abstract​

COVID-19 pandemic exerts a health care emergency around the world. The illness severity is heterogeneous. It is mostly unknown why some individuals who are positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies stay asymptomatic while others show moderate to severe disease symptoms. Reliable biomarkers for early detection of the disease are urgently needed to attenuate the virus’s spread and help make early treatment decisions. Bioactive sphingolipids play a crucial role in the regulation of viral infections and pro-inflammatory responses involved in the severity of COVID-19. However, any roles of sphingolipids in COVID-19 development or detection remain unknown. In this study, lipidomics measurement of serum sphingolipids demonstrated that reduced sphingosine levels are highly associated with the development of symptomatic COVID-19 in the majority (99.24%) SARS-CoV-2-infected patients compared to asymptomatic counterparts. The majority of asymptomatic individuals (73%) exhibited increased acid ceramidase (AC) in their serum, measured by Western blotting, consistent with elevated sphingosine levels compared to SARS-CoV-2 antibody negative controls. AC protein was also reduced in almost all of the symptomatic patients’ serum, linked to reduced sphingosine levels, measured in longitudinal acute or convalescent COVID-19 samples. Thus, reduced sphingosine levels provide a sensitive and selective serologic biomarker for the early identification of asymptomatic versus symptomatic COVID-19 patients.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Yesterday, I took 500mg in the morning and another 500mg at noon. A few hours later, I was hit with sedative effects, and I knew my cortisol was drastically lowered. Drank a strong cup of coffee after that as I had to go to the gym.
But I did notice a positive effect later in the night, I had improved verbal fluency and be very articulate with my words. Slept great after that.

 

[ddjd]

@haidut how do you approach the slowing down of bowel movements from niacinamide? i use 500mg 2x a day now. I dont feel much in terms of effect except for bowels have really slowed down. I almost feel a little constipated. Do you continue to use and increase niacinamide doses till it gets cleared out and bowels become normal? you talk about the slowing down and feeling constipated is because of lowered serotonin which is great, but i guess it cant be like this all the time?

Yes I get this. It's from the reduction in serotonin. Anything that lowers serotonin will slow bowel movements