High Dose Niacinamide Experiment

[Makrosky]

@TubZy are there any concerns with high dose niacinimide over long periods of time? What are the downsides of high dose in general? I understand the NOT enough sugar/nutrient crash. Anything else from your knowledge?

I posted some info here https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/low-dose-niacinamide-prevents-nafld-cirrhosis.8146/

 

[lollipop]

I posted some info here https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/low-dose-niacinamide-prevents-nafld-cirrhosis.8146/

Thank you @Makrosky!

 

[marteagal]

Anyone else get heart palpitations from niacinamide?

I am prone to experiencing palpitations but at least for me there is no association with niacinamide at all. For example, I can take 250 mg at once (750 mg toatl per day) and there is not the slightest sign of heart abnormalities. And (nowadays luckily only) on rare occasions I may experience a skipped beat despite not having taken any niacinamide at all ...

 

[TubZy]

As far as I'm aware niacinamide only stimulates adrenaline when not properly fed, as Tubzy mentioned above. Caffeine and thyroid also have the same effect.

Yup, same here. When I first used niacinamide it took me a while to get it down, I had to eat plenty before taking it.

I think the heart palps are also from being underfed and your metabolism is working too hard without proper support just like caffeine. I used to take caffeine/coffee on empty stomach and it gave me heart palps

 

[firebreather]

@haidut, how much is "enough sugar" in your opinion?

I am going to try and slowly work up to the 4th nighttime dose for sleep as niacinamide is the only thing that has even come close to producing results with sleep for me

To me niacinamide is more like a mind drug (pretty much like LSD was back in 60s) that you can take after a hectic day and it would immediately stop the stress response (if taken properly with enough sugar), and reverse the mental (and some of the physical) damage the stress that day did to you. If you that study on high dose niacinamide it says that niacinamide acts like a true serotonin inverse agonist on all serotonin "receptors". That's pretty much how Ray described LSD in one of his articles - i.e. "LSD is a powerful serotonin (approximate) antagonist".
A lot of that hectic day damage is concentrated in the stomach (where over 90% of serotonin is synthesized) and stomach issues like IBD and Chron's are known to have elevated serotonin causing bizarre synptoms like crazy/psychotic racing thoughts. Since niacinamide seems for me to decrease gut serotonin I reserve the high dose of niacinamide for those purposes - i.e. normalize mental health and gut health after a truly hectic day. Btw, for me the effect does NOT wear off. I mean, the effect after a high dose of niacinamide does wear off the next day but the next dose does not have to be larger to somehow compensate for me getting used to it. Then again, I only use the high doses (6,000mg-8,000mg) in extreme cases when I feel like I do need the extra punch.
Aside from that I take "lower" daily dosage of it that are still higher than what Ray mentions. I am taking the vitamin B "energy punch", which (as I mentioned to caroline) for me comes comes down to taking two doses (one in morning and one in evening) of the following:

Niacinamide: one capsule 500mg
Thiamine: 5 capsules x 300mg each for a total of 1,500mg
Riboflavin: 2 capsules x 100mg in each for 200mg total
B comples combo capsule: has 5mg B6, 5mg B5, 500mcg biotin, etc.

So, my "normal" niacinamide intake is 1,000mg daily (500mg morning and 500mg evening) as part of the vitamin B regimen. I know that seems a lot to some people but I am convinced that it is the niacinamide that got me from a pre-diabetic state of full ketosis back to sugar oxidation. I was on paleo diet for about 2 years and when I stopped I would still taste the acetone on my lips and my sweat would smell like ketones even when I was drinking pure sugar. People were noticing and asking if I use nail polish, it was that bad of a ketosis state. So, about 6 months after my flirt with niacinamide things normalized. It could have been the diet as well, but every time I would take a 500mg niacinamide pill the ketone smell/taste would go away in 30min-60min. So, in hindsight everything is 20/20 I guess.

 

[haidut]

@haidut, how much is "enough sugar" in your opinion?

I am going to try and slowly work up to the 4th nighttime dose for sleep as niacinamide is the only thing that has even come close to producing results with sleep for me

I don't know, maybe drinking one Mexican Coke. The human studies with runners showed 45g - 50g to be about right to recover from hypoglycemia symptoms, so around that dose should be OK.

 

[firebreather]

I don't know, maybe drinking one Mexican Coke. The human studies with runners showed 45g - 50g to be about right to recover from hypoglycemia symptoms, so around that dose should be OK.

Cool, thanks so much haidut

 

[superhuman]

I take 500mg two times a day for 1-2 weeks now. I havent really noticed anything from it except for some constipation. Is there any benefits to increasing it?

@TubZy do you experience constipation with high dose use?

 

[superhuman]

@haidut how do you approach the slowing down of bowel movements from niacinamide? i use 500mg 2x a day now. I dont feel much in terms of effect except for bowels have really slowed down. I almost feel a little constipated. Do you continue to use and increase niacinamide doses till it gets cleared out and bowels become normal? you talk about the slowing down and feeling constipated is because of lowered serotonin which is great, but i guess it cant be like this all the time?

 

[haidut]

@haidut how do you approach the slowing down of bowel movements from niacinamide? i use 500mg 2x a day now. I dont feel much in terms of effect except for bowels have really slowed down. I almost feel a little constipated. Do you continue to use and increase niacinamide doses till it gets cleared out and bowels become normal? you talk about the slowing down and feeling constipated is because of lowered serotonin which is great, but i guess it cant be like this all the time?

I don't get these effects from niacinamide. Other than maybe combining with a bit of Cascara, not sure what else I would suggest. Lowering the dose to 500mg once a daily maybe??

 

[superhuman]

I don't get these effects from niacinamide. Other than maybe combining with a bit of Cascara, not sure what else I would suggest. Lowering the dose to 500mg once a daily maybe??

Ahh i thought you mention that you also got them for a period when doing high amount of niacinamide. But do you think it will stop once the serotonin is lowered enough and cleared? do you think the reason one get those effects from high dose niacinamide is because serotonin is to high?

 

[haidut]

Ahh i thought you mention that you also got them for a period when doing high amount of niacinamide. But do you think it will stop once the serotonin is lowered enough and cleared? do you think the reason one get those effects from high dose niacinamide is because serotonin is to high?

I was using very high doses when I go these effects. The experiment was with 4g - 8g in a single dose to test the serotonin inhibition. Again, not sure why even 1,000mg would be causing constipation. Maybe try a lower dose. Even 500mg is enough to protect the liver from endotoxin and improve sugar metabolism.

 

[Broken man]

To me niacinamide is more like a mind drug (pretty much like LSD was back in 60s) that you can take after a hectic day and it would immediately stop the stress response (if taken properly with enough sugar), and reverse the mental (and some of the physical) damage the stress that day did to you. If you that study on high dose niacinamide it says that niacinamide acts like a true serotonin inverse agonist on all serotonin "receptors". That's pretty much how Ray described LSD in one of his articles - i.e. "LSD is a powerful serotonin (approximate) antagonist".
A lot of that hectic day damage is concentrated in the stomach (where over 90% of serotonin is synthesized) and stomach issues like IBD and Chron's are known to have elevated serotonin causing bizarre synptoms like crazy/psychotic racing thoughts. Since niacinamide seems for me to decrease gut serotonin I reserve the high dose of niacinamide for those purposes - i.e. normalize mental health and gut health after a truly hectic day. Btw, for me the effect does NOT wear off. I mean, the effect after a high dose of niacinamide does wear off the next day but the next dose does not have to be larger to somehow compensate for me getting used to it. Then again, I only use the high doses (6,000mg-8,000mg) in extreme cases when I feel like I do need the extra punch.
Aside from that I take "lower" daily dosage of it that are still higher than what Ray mentions. I am taking the vitamin B "energy punch", which (as I mentioned to caroline) for me comes comes down to taking two doses (one in morning and one in evening) of the following:

Niacinamide: one capsule 500mg
Thiamine: 5 capsules x 300mg each for a total of 1,500mg
Riboflavin: 2 capsules x 100mg in each for 200mg total
B comples combo capsule: has 5mg B6, 5mg B5, 500mcg biotin, etc.

So, my "normal" niacinamide intake is 1,000mg daily (500mg morning and 500mg evening) as part of the vitamin B regimen. I know that seems a lot to some people but I am convinced that it is the niacinamide that got me from a pre-diabetic state of full ketosis back to sugar oxidation. I was on paleo diet for about 2 years and when I stopped I would still taste the acetone on my lips and my sweat would smell like ketones even when I was drinking pure sugar. People were noticing and asking if I use nail polish, it was that bad of a ketosis state. So, about 6 months after my flirt with niacinamide things normalized. It could have been the diet as well, but every time I would take a 500mg niacinamide pill the ketone smell/taste would go away in 30min-60min. So, in hindsight everything is 20/20 I guess.

Do you still use this combo? I thought that Ray wrote that riboflavin can be toxic at higher dosage , more than 10 mg. Is there some danger?

 

[haidut]

Do you still use this combo? I thought that Ray wrote that riboflavin can be toxic at higher dosage , more than 10 mg. Is there some danger?

No, that was almost 4 years ago. I don't really take anything on a daily basis any more. Only as needed. And yes, high doses of B2 can cause oxidative stress so 10mg - 20mg daily is probably more than enough for most people.

 

[Broken man]

No, that was almost 4 years ago. I don't really take anything on a daily basis any more. Only as needed. And yes, high doses of B2 can cause oxidative stress so 10mg - 20mg daily is probably more than enough for most people.

Okay, I am curious, could this help me when I am working hard, I think physically and outside. I am using your energin so if yes, how much thiamin and others I need to add to have same amout. I dont want overdose. I saw your comment that riboflavin in energin is like 100-200 mg of regular riboflavin. Thank you.

 

[haidut]

Okay, I am curious, could this help me when I am working hard, I think physically and outside. I am using your energin so if yes, how much thiamin and others I need to add to have same amout. I dont want overdose. I saw your comment that riboflavin in energin is like 100-200 mg of regular riboflavin. Thank you.

I think a dose of Energin is probably enough for most people, including athletes and other people with high exertion.

 

[Broken man]

I think a dose of Energin is probably enough for most people, including athletes and other people with high exertion.

Thanks, this also applies to niacinamide? Because I am taking about 3 g with energin and 600 mg of thiamine because I have really big problem with lactic acid. 20 mg of hcl b6. This combo did big improvement for me. Hope that there isnt problem with this. Tried MB about 3 drops of oxidal but without success.

 

[Braveheart]

No, that was almost 4 years ago. I don't really take anything on a daily basis any more. Only as needed. And yes, high doses of B2 can cause oxidative stress so 10mg - 20mg daily is probably more than enough for most people.

and how do you determine "only as needed"?

 

[haidut]

and how do you determine "only as needed"?

As I mentioned in another post - feeling overtired or about to get a "bug", knowing that there would be a lot of stress at work or home, knowing there will be prolonged travel and/or days of poor food/sleep, prolonged absence of sunshine due to bad weather, etc.

 

[Broken man]

Is there some upper limit of niacinamide dosage? I wanted same effects like you when you wrote that its like valium but I cant hit that effect even I am taking about 6g per day and I tried your b vit combo. I dont have enough words how I can describe the feeling when my all co-workers what are stronger than me are exhausted and I am still working like my **** is burning. I am aware about your opinion that dose of energin is enough but I am not feeling anything when I am not over 600 mg of thiamine and 4 g of niacinamide. I dont know dose for b6 and I am scared of taking b2 more than 20 g orally although there is some absorption of supps that go through liver. I am interested about lactic acid and co2 because of my problems with this. Thank you for your time, I am searching through your old experiments but I am not as fast as I need. I am taking oxidal about 3 drops but I dont know if its doing something. Haidut-do power!!