High Dose Methylene Blue Experiment

[milkboi]

I get slightly blue urine after only 2mg. Does this mean I don't need it?

Nah, that’s not how it works (maybe with some vitamins it does work that way). Although it‘s unusual to see colored urine at such a low dose.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Regarding blue or green urine. This is an exchange in the Idealabs Cardenosine thread

Most people with malfunctioning ETC have high lactate, and symptoms of MELAS.
MELAS syndrome - Wikipedia

I don't know if there is a specific easily obtainable test to see if just ETC is working properly. Maybe @Travis / @Koveras / @Kyle M would know.

The problem is in isolating someone's biopsied mitochondria, lots of variables. A crude test off the top of my head would be disappearance time of methylene blue, using the assumption that problem respiration is linked to a well-oxidized cell potential.

What would be the outcome you look for? I've only read him about the disappearance of MB color on skin is indicative of the oxidative potential of cells. That would only be at the skin though, and there may be many confounders such as extracellular reducing agents and extracellular oxidants competing with the MB.

My gut feeling is that it's worth trying if someone has MB and doesn't mind a bit of blue on their skin for a while, but it would be more qualitative than quantitative.

Yeah, the skin test is nice but it can be skewed by local conditions not indicative of systemic health. I was thinking that maybe ingesting up to a certain amount of MB and checking for urine discoloration would be more indicative of systemic health as it has to pass through the GI, liver and then kidneys. Human studies with oral MB show that the bioavailability is pretty stable and does not vary much. I think it was around 70%. I have seen very young children get blue pee from 1mg oral MB doses and I am inclined to think it signifies their high oxidative state, while I have seen adults not get any change in urine color from even 15mg doses. This can't be a coincidence and as such could be developed into a more robust test with "normal" ranges where say a person ingests increasing MB doses once daily for several days until the pee turns blue. The lowest dose at which this happens can be compared to the results of a large number of other adults and this could gauge redox status. I suppose the same can be achieved with a simple blood test for pyruvate and lactate and then the pyruvate/lactate ratio can be checked against known pathological ranges for which data already exists. But the MB test would be better since it would be non-invasive and everybody can do at home without doctors getting involved.

Yes that would be better, but for any kind of rigor you would need a spectrophotometer to measure differences in "blueness" outside of eye perception. The other hues of urine, which vary by what you're consuming and your metabolism, would obfuscate small to moderate blues. At best this could be a safe and easy qualitative test, but I still don't see potential for quantitative results.

Yes, and that's why I was thinking of switching the test into trying different doses until ANY hint of blue is seen, not trying to determine how blue it is. In my experience, a person who sees any change in urine color from say 5mg is healthier than somebody who has no change from 5mg but very deep blue from 10mg. It's almost like a threshold test, since any amount of unused MB is enough to indicate sufficiently oxidative state. Checking the blue saturation would be better but would probably only become necessary when a large amount of people fall into a specific group where say 1,000 of them see urine changes form 5mg and these people need to be segregated further. However, even that group can be subtested with 4mg, 4.5mg, etc in order to get an even finer breakdown. But I think that much of granularity may not be needed since we are only looking for a few categories like "unhealthy", "borderline/OK", "healthy". And the dose would need to be on a mg/kg basis, not set to 5mg since a massive person like a NLF linebacker will probably not react much to 5mg while a baby would get oversaturated with the same dose.
Anyways, I will ask Peat and see what he says.

 

[Bart1]

As far as the red light and MB concerns, seeing this recent post from haidut would suggest he is still in favour of combining the two. He talks about the synergistic effect.

Simple heating of tumor often leads to a rapid and complete cure – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

 

[equipoise]

Max I did oral MB was 3,5mg (Oxidal), no blue pee. Feels good though, makes me breathe and sleep deeper.

 

[yerrag]

i've been taking mb for the past 2 weeks in higher doses and slowly working down to 2 doses of 10mg orally. Then the other day, I changed it to 2 doses of 5mg to account for the change from oral to sublingual intake. In each dose, I would also add a drop of dmso, and 6 drops of SSKI (150mg equiv of KI). Then yesterday morning, I decided to add 1 more drop of dmso, making it 5 mg mb in basically a 20% dmso solution, with 150mg SSKI.

I would add a small amount of distilled water to minimize wastage (in the mix staying behind in the cup), put it in my mouth, and swirl it before I left it in my mouth for about 10-15 minutes. This would allow the mix some time to enter sublingually. After that, I would swallow the mix. So, in effect, I would be taking the mix both sublingually and orally.

Then, an hour or two later, I would feel lightheaded, and the left side of my body would feel like I'm in a mild anaesthesia. I would feel the need to drap my left foot as I walked. I took my blood pressure, temperature, heart rate, oxygen saturation, and my perfusion index. All appeared normal, or not far from what I'm used to seeing.

I decided to stop supplementing anything, and went to sleep early. I had a good sleep, as if I had taken Benadryl.

After breakfast, I went to do my routine checking emails and online research, but shortly thereafter, began to feel sleepy again. But this was after I took a cup of Indian tea, chai, that I made.

I think that taking mb sublingually has a very strong effect, and taking it with dmso enhances it, but the dmso at 10% is just right. Increasing the dmso has some sort of drowsy effect on me, for some reason, that takes time to wear off.

So far, though, my blood pressure has gone down, a good thing. My heart rate has stayed steady, at the usual 68, yet my perfusion index has improved, going from 8 to 12. But it may have to do also with drinking chai last night and this morning. The chai I makes uses many spices that appears to be hepful. It has ginger, cardamom, cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg, alsspice, black tea, evaporated milk, and sugar.

Mb, dmso, sski, and chai - I'll have to see if this is going to keep working as a stack.

 

[Gone Peating]

Where do you buy your methylene blue from? @Hans

 

[Hans]

Where do you buy your methylene blue from? @Hans

Just a local shop here in SA.

 

[southcesar]

Hi, I bought methylene blue and I just took a drop (500mcg) sublingually and then took a sip of water. I'm not sure where I read it, but I had read that there was a problem with taking methylene blue with milk or something. Could someone enlighten me on this?

 

[milkboi]

Ultraviolet radiation protection potentials of Methylene Blue for human skin and coral reef health - Scientific Reports

Methylene blue (MB) is a century-old medicine, a laboratory dye, and recently shown as a premier antioxidant that combats ROS-induced cellular aging in human skins. Given MB’s molecular structure and light absorption properties, we hypothesize that MB has the potential to be considered as a...

www.nature.com

MB might actually act as a sunscreen

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Ultraviolet radiation protection potentials of Methylene Blue for human skin and coral reef health - Scientific Reports

Methylene blue (MB) is a century-old medicine, a laboratory dye, and recently shown as a premier antioxidant that combats ROS-induced cellular aging in human skins. Given MB’s molecular structure and light absorption properties, we hypothesize that MB has the potential to be considered as a...

www.nature.com

MB might actually act as a sunscreen

Dang how can we prevent stain? Lol

 

[milkboi]

Dang how can we prevent stain? Lol

In those concentrations it shouldn't stain skin. It didn't stain mine

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

In those concentrations it shouldn't stain skin. It didn't stain mine

Oh awesome. I’ll definitely mess around with it then

 

[tastyfood]

I don't consume tyramine rich food in general.
Some interesting fact about methylene blue is that it's a reversible antagonist of MAO-A, which means that if serotonin of tyramine builds up high enough it will displace methylene blue and be broken down. This can help prevent serotonin syndrome.

Do you have a recommended amount of hours one should wait between MB and a food rich in tyramine like cheese? Is a few hours enough of a distance?

 

[Hans]

Do you have a recommended amount of hours one should wait between MB and a food rich in tyramine like cheese? Is a few hours enough of a distance?

MB half life is 5 to 24 hours so it's probably best not to combine them at all.

 

[tastyfood]

MB half life is 5 to 24 hours so it's probably best not to combine them at all.

Do you think at low doses like 1mg there is still a risk? That would mean skipping cheeses like pecorino romano altogether while taking MB?

 

[Hans]

Do you think at low doses like 1mg there is still a risk? That would mean skipping cheeses like pecorino romano altogether while taking MB?

Depends on your sensitivity, but I think you should be fine unless you're MAO-A is just super slow.

 

[bagotage]

I had a very, I can only describe it as shamanic, dream last night, my second day of high-dose MB (50mg first day, 100mg second day). Has anyone else ever experienced this?

Both nights, I've been very warm, so perhaps it's simply dreaming while in a more energized state? But the warmth also felt a bit serotoninergic, hard to say. Last night, it wasn't just warmth, but also a bit of nausea, which definitely seems like a high-serotonin symptom.

 

[dreamcatcher]

@Hans when I take mb 0.5-1mg daily, I feel extreme exhaustion. Also, it causes a restless mind at night. Could you comment on this? Thank you.

 

[Highserotonin90]

@dreamcatcher Perhaps your redox state predisposes methylene blue to act as a pro-oxidant?

 

[dreamcatcher]

@dreamcatcher Perhaps your redox state predisposes methylene blue to act as a pro-oxidant?

I thought it shouldn't behave that way at such low doses?