High Cholesterol & Triglycerides

[skycop00]

Why is he so hellbent on the clomid? There are so many other ways to regulate estrogen. Why would not progesterone and/or vitamin E be just as effective without the serious estrogenic side effects of clomid in the brain and liver?? The term SERM is just a marketing gimmick, these chemicals are still estrogens.

I wish I had a good answer. The two Physicians at Defymedical.com, Dr Crisler and Doctor Saya both use this protocol. I remember both clearly saying progesterone is not a male hormone...lol...I think they are weary it in men. They never mention vitamin E at all. I could always go it on my own ofcourse, ultimately it's my body. I just want to give my body the best chance to succeed and give a nice healthy T level with controlled estrogen

 

[haidut]

I wish I had a good answer. The two Physicians at Defymedical.com, Dr Crisler and Doctor Saya both use this protocol. I remember both clearly saying progesterone is not a male hormone...lol...I think they are weary it in men. They never mention vitamin E at all. I could always go it on my own ofcourse, ultimately it's my body. I just want to give my body the best chance to succeed and give a nice healthy T level with controlled estrogen

I am not sure clomid is safer than a pure AI like letrozole or arimidex. But I will defer to your doctors. I will personally never take a SERM unless my life somehow depended on it. There are always safer options, it just takes some annoying conversations with a doctor to find that safer option.

 

[skycop00]

Appreciate the feedback. There are so many men out there

I am not sure clomid is safer than a pure AI like letrozole or arimidex. But I will defer to your doctors. I will personally never take a SERM unless my life somehow depended on it. There are always safer options, it just takes some annoying conversations with a doctor to find that safer option.

There are so many men out there in this scenario. I would really like to find options other than TRT that any man can try. By the time T levels drop, most are eager to try anything. This will be an experience for me to try this protocol. Hope it doesn't CAUSE another issue down the road. Been reading some studies and it looks like CLOMID is now the 'OPTION" to trt. Oh boy! Thanks for your input...

 

[NathanK]

The high trigs usually mean liver is not dealing well with a lot of sugar but trigs are less dangerous then the NEFA. Trigs are more or less neutral but can fatten up the liver. Taking some niacinamide or biotin usually gets rid of the problem. However, the underlying problem is usually hypothyroidism. Have you done any tests on that? Are you tracking pulse and temps?

I'm still not certain if what correlation there is between NEFA and TG. I've seen at least one paper say there is a correlation, though I haven't been convinced. NEFA can dramatically fluctuate so labs I don't think will be that beneficial. Regardless, the process of healing is probably the same. It may just mean to ease into a more carb loaded diet esp if coming from keto of low carb to allow the body to adjust

 

[haidut]

I'm still not certain if what correlation there is between NEFA and TG. I've seen at least one paper say there is a correlation, though I haven't been convinced. NEFA can dramatically fluctuate so labs I don't think will be that beneficial. Regardless, the process of healing is probably the same. It may just mean to ease into a more carb loaded diet esp if coming from keto of low carb to allow the body to adjust

Peat once said that TG are the safest form of fat to float around in the blood. There is also this, even though I understand it does not apply to the general population.
Good (HDL) Cholesterol Is Not So Good After All

 

[NathanK]

Peat once said that TG are the safest form of fat to float around in the blood. There is also this, even though I understand it does not apply to the general population.
Good (HDL) Cholesterol Is Not So Good After All

I don't think circulating TG are an issue (as long as it's not too high showcasing serious liver problems), but TG (and LDL) is considered one of the channels of NEFA overflow. Meaning high TG could, if I understand correctly, be a clue to having high NEFA. I understand what Peat says, and don't mean to be beating a dead horse, but it's something Ive looked for a conclusive answer on since so many who convert to a higher carb diet get hounded by their doctors for their TG going through the roof. In short, researching and understanding the more exact physiology of FFA has been a bit complex and hard to simplify

Vitamin B3 blocks FFA elevation caused by caffeine
"It should also be noted that the situation is not one of pure NEFA elevation—TG concentrations are also increased, as are those of monoacylglycerols (39). In addition, lipid emulsions contain large amounts of free glycerol, and a control experiment with equivalent glycerol infusion is usually called for. Acutely elevated NEFA concentrations therefore lead to insulin resistance, as described above. Plasma NEFA are the main substrate for hepatic TG production in the form of VLDL (40,41). NEFA turnover is a determinant of VLDLTG secretion and plasma TG concentration"
-The latter makes me think calculated VLDL could be a marker for higher NEFA

Endogenous and exogenous NEFA production is another matter:
Nefa Inhibit Steroidogenesis
After a meal with fat, triglycerides derived from the diet could result in elevated NEFA in tissues in preparation for storage as tissue triglycerides, whereas in the fasting state the NEFA would be released from tissue stores as a reflection of the NEFA derived from previous meals and endogenous synthesis. These changes in NEFA associated with diet could affect control of steroidogenesis regulated by LH...."

Another interesting paper:
Mono-, di- and triacylglycerol concentrations in human plasma: effects of heparin injection and of a high-fat meal
Mono-, di- and triacylglycerol concentrations in human plasma: effects of heparin injection and of a high-fat meal

 

[skycop00]

I am not sure clomid is safer than a pure AI like letrozole or arimidex. But I will defer to your doctors. I will personally never take a SERM unless my life somehow depended on it. There are always safer options, it just takes some annoying conversations with a doctor to find that safer option.

Any suggestions based on your research that I can bring up? Like I said...ultimately I am in charge here.

 

[Blossom]

You could just tell the doctor you would like to take a wait and see approach and recheck things in six months? While I understand your concern because the mainstream medical/pharma industry has been brainwashing us for a long time to promote statins I think your numbers will normalize in that time frame. Since you just made Peat changes a couple months ago it would make sense that your body needs some time to adjust. It took my middle aged body several months for my lipids and glucose to gradually normalize after switching to more carbs but it happened without drugs or restrictive dieting. Btw It felt great to prove the doctor wrong.

 

[skycop00]

You could just tell the doctor you would like to take a wait and see approach and recheck things in six months? While I understand your concern because the mainstream medical/pharma industry has been brainwashing us for a long time to promote statins I think your numbers will normalize in that time frame. Since you just made Peat changes a couple months ago it would make sense that your body needs some time to adjust. It took my middle aged body several months for my lipids and glucose to gradually normalize after switching to more carbs but it happened without drugs or restrictive dieting. Btw It felt great to prove the doctor wrong.

I will definitely give it time. I will be stopping TRT in less than 2 weeks (had my last injection last week). This is going to be quite the journey!~!

 

[haidut]

Any suggestions based on your research that I can bring up? Like I said...ultimately I am in charge here.

Well, if the only option is a drug then I would ask for something like low dose letrozole or topical DHT. DHT is itself a potent AI, estrogen receptor antagonist, and lower cortisol. It does not get much better than that for males.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

As much as you probably love, trust and respect you sister-in-law Renky I urge you to do your own research. Doctors are just people like everyone else and unfortunately they are often influenced by pharmaceutical marketing strategies designed to sell drugs. As much as I respect anyone who devotes their life's work to trying to helping others I do not think they deserve the unquestioned privileged status they've achieved.

There is way more to the cholesterol story than we've been led to believe. I'm still exploring the topic so I can't say what others should do but for myself I've opted to not take statins. Beyond having cholesterol levels that are higher than the current guidelines consider optimal I enjoy better health than I have had in decades. Rewind to the 1988 criteria and my cholesterol would have been considered normal-borderline high. The guidelines were changed to create more 'need' for the drugs. I also do not have heart disease but what conventional medicine considers a risk factor for heart disease. It's a lot to process because we are heavily marketed to but I think in a situation that isn't life or death it behooves us to do our own research before blindly submitting to treatment that may or may not be in our best interest. Even when we go to a doctor of our own volition seeking help we still have autonomy and the right to to refuse treatment that we are unsure about for whatever reason. She steps off her soapbox.