High Calcium Intake + Vitamin D Is Bad Combo?

[Collden]

I have trust in the idea that D is about Genomic Effects,controlling the controlling gene-clusters foremost,and that Ca-regulation and PTH are important parts in it,but that D is a general purpose Immune-Hormone,which is engaged in general purpose Tissue apportion,maintenance,structure-forming and Invader detection and Elimination.

Sure but these immunological effects are mediated by circulating D levels, which can be kept in a healthy range either with modest D intakes + high calcium, or higher D and lower calcium.

As for sunlight, it absolutely does have very important effects on fertility, metabolism and general health, but I think this mediated more by melatonin suppression, dopamine and heat (infrared light), among other things, than by D. D is important in the context of low calcium, with high calcium it is less crucial although you still need some.

Why high of any of them? Why not just moderate? That would seem the best. You reassure you have vitamin D not just for its calcium absorbing properties but for its immuno modultory and gene activation properties. And you have enough calcium to supply the raw material for bone? Vitamim D is not only for bone health. Calcium has more functions than bone health aswell.

Yes I do think you need some D, but the amount depends on context like calcium intake and genetics. I'm still skeptical of the need to supplement unless you specifically grew up in a context of high D intake and moved to an environment with lower possibilities to get D.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Sure but these immunological effects are mediated by circulating D levels, which can be kept in a healthy range either with modest D intakes + high calcium, or higher D and lower calcium.

As for sunlight, it absolutely does have very important effects on fertility, metabolism and general health, but I think this mediated more by melatonin suppression, dopamine and heat (infrared light), among other things, than by D. D is important in the context of low calcium, with high calcium it is less crucial although you still need some.


Yes I do think you need some D, but the amount depends on context like calcium intake and genetics. I'm still skeptical of the need to supplement unless you specifically grew up in a context of high D intake and moved to an environment with lower possibilities to get D.

The circulating D Calcifediol acts as an reservoir,the canonical functions of D are mediated by Calcitriol-VDR binding,which happens on-site in tissues,for which constant flux and thus availability of circulating Pro-Hormone D is necessary.To allow the Conversion of Calcifediol:Calcitriol in sufficient amounts to happen,sufficient D3 is necessary,and there is debate if the recommended intakes are set too low,or way too low.Calcium changes the conversion rate of the change from Calcifediol to Calcitriol,which is fine,but the dominant Factor (dominance through reach and influence) is Hormone D,that we can have too high of Calcium intake and too low of UV-irradiation is the more plausible assessment imo.

 

[nad]

Cardiovascular system suffers a lot from microbial toxins, you could be taking care of this aspect inadvertently with your interventions.

Yes, I know, at least my decaying ''leftover'' of teeth is enough to create a problems.
But calcification appeared just last time w/supplementation.
The result is telling me that you're right and almost everybody here and Ray is not, which is hard to admit, because then I'm totally lost,
and don't understand what to do, how to ''put this hat on MY head''?!
Just can't interpret it to my situation, which looks different, because a lot of people getting help w/ V-D,
I'm not the scientist. The more I read all the posts and references, the less I get it. Why to believe this study and not those one? A lot of controversy info.
I did use supplement D before, calcification came here when I add some Ca carbonate to my diet, not much - 500, rarely 1000 mg, not even every day.
I never took Ca before. K2 MK4 2,5 - 5 mg I'm taking also for couple years. Also Mg, Bs, E, some NDT,
And the very big puzzle for me - why my V-D level got up very little, from 29 to 35, after whole year of suppl. 5000 and all spring ,summer, fall outside, gardening etc.
Should I live w/ low D or not taking adding Ca, or nothing at all and return to starting point, that combo lessened severe PVC suffering, and now I think - maybe because my previously prolapsed heart valves got less flexible w/calcification, less leaking? Stupid or lol IDK,
I need to try to reverse it, and not to worsen.
If you could tell me your opinion and maybe advice in plain, simple words,
English's my second language,
I love the use of metaphors, jokes, figurative meaning, hints, and use it in my native vocabulary a lot,
and the way you talk (that's not judge, I love it and use it sometimes like English lesson),
but very often totally don't get what did you mean, even w/ translator, lol.
Sorry, again, that's not judge, I NEED to understand you.
Please?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Yes, I know, at least my decaying ''leftover'' of teeth is enough to create a problems.
But calcification appeared just last time w/supplementation.
The result is telling me that you're right and almost everybody here and Ray is not, which is hard to admit, because then I'm totally lost,
and don't understand what to do, how to ''put this hat on MY head''?!
Just can't interpret it to my situation, which looks different, because a lot of people getting help w/ V-D,
I'm not the scientist. The more I read all the posts and references, the less I get it. Why to believe this study and not those one? A lot of controversy info.
I did use supplement D before, calcification came here when I add some Ca carbonate to my diet, not much - 500, rarely 1000 mg, not even every day.
I never took Ca before. K2 MK4 2,5 - 5 mg I'm taking also for couple years. Also Mg, Bs, E, some NDT,
And the very big puzzle for me - why my V-D level got up very little, from 29 to 35, after whole year of suppl. 5000 and all spring ,summer, fall outside, gardening etc.
Should I live w/ low D or not taking adding Ca, or nothing at all and return to starting point, that combo lessened severe PVC suffering, and now I think - maybe because my previously prolapsed heart valves got less flexible w/calcification, less leaking? Stupid or lol IDK,
I need to try to reverse it, and not to worsen.
If you could tell me your opinion and maybe advice in plain, simple words,
English's my second language,
I love the use of metaphors, jokes, figurative meaning, hints, and use it in my native vocabulary a lot,
and the way you talk (that's not judge, I love it and use it sometimes like English lesson),
but very often totally don't get what did you mean, even w/ translator, lol.
Sorry, again, that's not judge, I NEED to understand you.
Please?

I would recommend to not go above 800mg - 1000mg Ca from all sources,having a very stable intake,like 2 times a day 400mg of Ca,always have this amount of magnesium also.

Vitamin Deficiency and Vitamin D Excess are both Calcifying.D Deficiency is defined as D below 30ng/ml,D Excess as D above 100ng/ml.

I would go for 60-80ng/ml,with the low amount of Calcium as described.

For this amount to result in 60-80ng/ml,you would need around 8000IU - 10000IU of D3 per day.

just my 2c.

 

[Amazoniac]

Yes, I know, at least my decaying ''leftover'' of teeth is enough to create a problems.
But calcification appeared just last time w/supplementation.
The result is telling me that you're right and almost everybody here and Ray is not, which is hard to admit, because then I'm totally lost,
and don't understand what to do, how to ''put this hat on MY head''?!
Just can't interpret it to my situation, which looks different, because a lot of people getting help w/ V-D,
I'm not the scientist. The more I read all the posts and references, the less I get it. Why to believe this study and not those one? A lot of controversy info.
I did use supplement D before, calcification came here when I add some Ca carbonate to my diet, not much - 500, rarely 1000 mg, not even every day.
I never took Ca before. K2 MK4 2,5 - 5 mg I'm taking also for couple years. Also Mg, Bs, E, some NDT,
And the very big puzzle for me - why my V-D level got up very little, from 29 to 35, after whole year of suppl. 5000 and all spring ,summer, fall outside, gardening etc.
Should I live w/ low D or not taking adding Ca, or nothing at all and return to starting point, that combo lessened severe PVC suffering, and now I think - maybe because my previously prolapsed heart valves got less flexible w/calcification, less leaking? Stupid or lol IDK,
I need to try to reverse it, and not to worsen.
If you could tell me your opinion and maybe advice in plain, simple words,
English's my second language,
I love the use of metaphors, jokes, figurative meaning, hints, and use it in my native vocabulary a lot,
and the way you talk (that's not judge, I love it and use it sometimes like English lesson),
but very often totally don't get what did you mean, even w/ translator, lol.
Sorry, again, that's not judge, I NEED to understand you.
Please?

Supplementation of isolated nutrients defeats its purpose once you can't back it up. Forcing the increase of killcidiol to a certain range is easy, it might normalize at the expense of other parts. If levels of killcidiol in the blood aren't extremely low and related tests are acceptable, it's preferable to leave it for last because you don't know if it's secondary to something else.

I'm mentioning this because people have been pushing ranges that are suspiciously high as adequate, and you'd need plenty of sun exposure or supplementation to get to that level and it may become unmanageable to support it. Raj's 50 ng/ml is a stretch. I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

However, if the problem only appeared after the addition of killcium and there were no issues with venom D before that, I would experiment with other forms of killcium or lowering the amount added to meals. You can react with vinegar or citrus juice, may take longer than expected.

Their combination may require a K2 complex, it might work better and reduce overall dose. As it was commented recently with a member, the advantage of including mk-7 is that longer chains remain in the circulation for more time, and although it tends to concentrate in organs, it might be better distributed than the bigger ones and it's decent enough to cover susceptible organs while serving to spare mk-4. The idea is to diversify because it should assure you that if mk-4 is used up fast or there's poor recycling, you're not left unprotect'd.

In fractionating killcium doses throughout the day, I would try 200 mg of killcium with 100 mg of laxarium (Mg) on heavier meals (slower digestion, better utilization due to factors that enhance absorption and the presence of synergizing nutrients).

You can find plenty of discussions on the forum on what has to be taken care of for these to work right.

very often totally don't get what did you mean, even w/ translator, lol

Yeah, Google's translator doesn't have prolactinese yet, but fortunately the beta version of 'Elementary Prolactinese' is out:

Spoiler

H: fryum
O: burnium
C: ashium
N: agium

K: cardiarrestium
Na: edemium
Cl: nagmacium
Mg: laxarium
Ca: killcium
P: nephrosium

S: foulium
Fe: sepsium
Zn: nausium/cokoium
Cu: pipium
Se: mummium
Cr: deadlium
I: hashimotium
Mn: imaginarium
Mo: discolorantium/depigmentium

F: iqillium
As: arsium
B: neoplasmium
Ni: panscrapium
Si: scarrium
V: vainadium/whocaresium
Co: undetectablium

Poisonoids (poisonol, -al, -oic acid, and so on)
Venomoids (killciol, -diol, -triol, and so on)
Menacetrenone
Tocoinphernals

Futhilamine
Glowurin
Niassassin
Bluesine-Inutilol
Fictionalic acid
Neuropathine
Baldin
Failic acid (not to be confused with phallic)
Tumoramin

Ascourgic acid

It's an ambitious work in progress. Some of these are not morbid* enough, may be improved. At some point I'll need to stop, or else I have to prepare for a dictionary.

*As I typed, it occurred to me that morbidenum (Mo) wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[Braveheart]

Yes, I know, at least my decaying ''leftover'' of teeth is enough to create a problems.
But calcification appeared just last time w/supplementation.
The result is telling me that you're right and almost everybody here and Ray is not, which is hard to admit, because then I'm totally lost,
and don't understand what to do, how to ''put this hat on MY head''?!
Just can't interpret it to my situation, which looks different, because a lot of people getting help w/ V-D,
I'm not the scientist. The more I read all the posts and references, the less I get it. Why to believe this study and not those one? A lot of controversy info.
I did use supplement D before, calcification came here when I add some Ca carbonate to my diet, not much - 500, rarely 1000 mg, not even every day.
I never took Ca before. K2 MK4 2,5 - 5 mg I'm taking also for couple years. Also Mg, Bs, E, some NDT,
And the very big puzzle for me - why my V-D level got up very little, from 29 to 35, after whole year of suppl. 5000 and all spring ,summer, fall outside, gardening etc.
Should I live w/ low D or not taking adding Ca, or nothing at all and return to starting point, that combo lessened severe PVC suffering, and now I think - maybe because my previously prolapsed heart valves got less flexible w/calcification, less leaking? Stupid or lol IDK,
I need to try to reverse it, and not to worsen.
If you could tell me your opinion and maybe advice in plain, simple words,
English's my second language,
I love the use of metaphors, jokes, figurative meaning, hints, and use it in my native vocabulary a lot,
and the way you talk (that's not judge, I love it and use it sometimes like English lesson),
but very often totally don't get what did you mean, even w/ translator, lol.
Sorry, again, that's not judge, I NEED to understand you.
Please?

The Linus Pauling Institute
About

 

[Tristan Loscha]

The Linus Pauling Institute
About

+1
Linus Pauling Institute has actually rather detailed information on a lot of things,recommended!

 

[wavelength123]

I’m sure this has been posted elsewhere in here however I can’t find how much calcium that “moderate reduction” is about.

A pilot study assessing the effect of prolonged administration of high daily doses of vitamin D on the clinical course of vitiligo and psoriasis

if anyone here has the answer I’ll be thankful.
35,000iu ED for 6 months did get serum 25(OH)D above range more often than not.

I dig the idea of picking one between more calcium or more vitamin D. Ultimately less PTH is what we’re after.

 

[Shackles]

K puts calcium into bones where it needs to go and prevents the calcium from causing excessive excitation and cell death.

Are you sure? I think a plausible explanation for the hairloss some experience with vitamin K is that the distribution of calcium to reducing cells is even faster and more efficient.

 

[lampofred]

Are you sure? I think a plausible explanation for the hairloss some experience with vitamin K is that the distribution of calcium to reducing cells is even faster and more efficient.

I never had a hypercalcemic experience with vit K, but maybe it does have that effect in some people. Regardless, I'm no longer a fan of supplementing it in the long-run and prefer to get it via increased intake of butter, eggs and well-cooked leafy greens instead.

 

[aniciete]

I never had a hypercalcemic experience with vit K, but maybe it does have that effect in some people. Regardless, I'm no longer a fan of supplementing it in the long-run and prefer to get it via increased intake of butter, eggs and well-cooked leafy greens instead.

Is there a specific reason you don’t like k supplements anymore?

 

[lampofred]

Is there a specific reason you don’t like k supplements anymore?

Yes, I think that anything that strongly lowers serotonin without raising CO2 at the same time, like vitamin K, has the side effect of increasing the effect of histamine.

 

[aniciete]

Yes, I think that anything that strongly lowers serotonin without raising CO2 at the same time, like vitamin K, has the side effect of increasing the effect of histamine.

Interesting, that makes sense. So b1/b3 may be better at lowering serotonin while also increasing co2?

 

[lampofred]

Interesting, that makes sense. So b1/b3 may be better at lowering serotonin while also increasing co2?

To be honest, I don't like b1 much either because I think it can have bad effects for someone low in vitamin D, but I like niacinamide a lot.

 

[Dr. B]

Yes, I think that anything that strongly lowers serotonin without raising CO2 at the same time, like vitamin K, has the side effect of increasing the effect of histamine.

is serotonin an antihistamine?

To be honest, I don't like b1 much either because I think it can have bad effects for someone low in vitamin D, but I like niacinamide a lot.

why does b1 have bad effects if low in d, and why niacinamide? niacinamide does lower phosphate iirc. it depletes methyl groups.

 

[FitnessMike]

Lots of people report having issues with even moderate amounts of supplemental Vit D so likely there can be subclinical disturbances in calcium.

i can confirm today is the second day without it D and already way less muscle twitches, a lot of calcium+vit d daily = low magnesium= muscle twitches that what i currently thing

 

[FitnessMike]

Beyond it being abject common sense I personally have really ****88 my health up with higher amounts of vitamin D.

can you explain?

 

[Dr. B]

can you explain?

10k IU d3 causes eye shrinkage, bloating, loss of appetite, puffy face etc basically high cortisol symptoms maybe cuz it does something to vitamin A? Im thinking of stopping D3 for a long time then adding it back at 5000IU eventually.

Also only supplement im using is 20mg swansons policosanol daily is that safe. I stopped caffeine too i think it spikes cortisol

 

[Dr. B]

Just a thought, most people at northern latitudes (Scandinavia, Russia) who have low Vitamin D production traditionally ate a lot of dairy, whereas people at southern latitudes with high Vit D production generally eat little dairy and likely get far less overall calcium.

The main function of Vitamin D is to increase intestinal calcium absorption, Vit D and Calcium interact so that lower intake of one can be compensated by higher intake of the other, but it also means that having a high intake of both could spell real trouble - namely hypercalcemia. I'm thinking that if you are of northern descent, and especially if you consume a lot of dairy, your need for Vit D will be far lower than someone of southern descent who eats little dairy. Also because of genetic polymorphisms in Vit D metabolism that make northerners use Vit D more efficiently and make southerners more wasteful of Vit D.

Ray Peat encourages high consumption of both dairy and Vit D supplementation, and I'm wondering if this might not lead some people to develop problems with hypercalcemia.

WHile on a high dairy diet of 16oz milk, 8oz greek yogurt, weekly ice cream, 100g protein from whey daily, i was using 5000IU vitamin A daily and about 1000 IU D3 daily from a multi and milk. I benefitted when adding in 5000 IU d3.

For the last few years ive been having a half gallon milk and some liver, 5000IU dietary A daily with no supplemental A. D3 intake was 10000IU daily. I got severe issues, and got massive improvements from cutting out D3 entirely. ITs only been one week but ive improved significantly in every area. I wish I wasn’t using D3. I’m hoping that maybe there is some special effect like drastically increased bone production or height or cheekbones from using D3 so long and stopping

 

[Can]

I don't like b1 much either because I think it can have bad effects for someone low in vitamin D

How so? Would love to hear your reasoning on this - coming from someone who had low vitamin D in a blood test and is considering taking vitamin B1.