High Blood Pressure. concerned

Discussion in 'Heart, Heart Rate, Blood Pressure' started by leo, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. leo

    leo Member

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    HI...have only been doing this for a few weeks now, but right off the bat my blood pressure soared. On lc I had an average of 120/80 and now it's averaging 145/90. Have not changed anything else.

    Anyone else have this happen?

    Anyone have high blood pressure PRIOR to peating and then have it go down?

    I have added more salt, and sometimes it seems to do the trick but at other times it does nothing at all.

    If I sit and breathe deeply I can get it to come down considerably, but after getting up and walking around the house it goes sky high again.

    Mercola has an article on sugar and blood pressure....don't want to beleive it but what else could it be?

    I don't want to quit doing this.....despite weight gain and BP rise, I really want to be able to eat like this long term. Sleep is somewhat better as is mood and energy but I really am afraid of high BP.

    Can anyone help me here? I have a gazillion other questions regarding eating/supplementing, but for now want to concentrate on this big issue. Once that is resolved I can get around to fine tuning what I'm doing so far.

    Thanks in advance.

    ps basal temp is up from 97.7 to 97.9. Morning temps are lowish. Afternoon temp after carrot is 98.8. Going to bed temp is usually98.0
    pulse is all over the place as is blood pressure.
     
  2. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    forgot to ask: what would be MAXIMUM salt consumption in one day?

    thnx
     
  3. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    Well I guess no one has it. Lucky people.

    I stuck with it....added more salt, ate more solid foods, less liquids, and today for the first time, bp seemed to be easing down. Not perfect, but a lot better than past few days.

    I don't know the reasoning, but thought I would share something that might be of help to others...or maybe someone could explain it.....

    tonight I had a large glass of club soda with OJ and sugar. BP went WAY down and temps went up to 98.9! My reasoning is the sodium/potassium/mag balance, so will be trying it again tomorrow. Only downside is it makes me thirstier.
     
  4. SAFarmer

    SAFarmer Member

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    I have same as you. Was also LC before. Saw the light and switched to Peat. My BP was 120/80 and now around 130-140/90 . HR went from 60 to 80 avg. Temp went from 34 C to 35.5 C . This all on much higher sugar, biltong and milk diet for about 3 months now and recently after adding thyroid T4 and T3 hormone for about 2 weeks now. Obviously my cardiac output is a lot higher, by I am trying to research if a little higher BP is actually bad or something to worry about if all other health indicators are improving like temp and HR ? Interested to hear other's opinion.
     
  5. j.

    j. Guest

    High blood pressure I think could be related to high estrogen causing retention of water. So an anti-estrogen diet would help. Anti estrogenic substances are oj, guavas, raw carrot, aspirin, I think honey.

    High blood pressure I think could also be related to calcification of tissues and arteries. Vitamin K2 reverses calcification of arteries in rats, so maybe that's partly how it can reduce blood pressure in humans.
     
  6. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    Thank you j.

    Only problem is I had perfect BP on a low carb diet that most here would find sub optimal. It was only when I switched to Peat that it started going up, on oj, raw carrot, aspirin honey etc.

    THAT is my concern.

    If I had always had high BP I would not be relating it to Peat woe. But since it started with the diet change I can only assume that is the cause. It went down yesterday with unbelievably HIGH amounts of carbonated soda, salt etc. I can't live that way everyday in order to maintain a healthy bp.

    So today sadly, I have gone somewhat back to my old style of eating. I am avoiding pufa's of course, but not striving for such a high sugar intake.

    We will see if it affects the bp. I would have liked to continue Peat, but I just do not see any other choice for me.
     
  7. Peata

    Peata Member

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    I've read of Peat people eating up to 3 T. salt per day.

    You may have already seen Peat's article, but if not, here it is: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/salt.shtml

    For me personally, I get about 1/2 - 1 T. salt. I never had a blood pressure problem before Peat though, and it's good since Peat too.

    Someone at this website: http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... -pressure/ has apparently put together a list of things RP has said about blood pressure, just in case you find something you can use from the list.
     
  8. j.

    j. Guest

    Change one thing at a time. When people aren't completely healthy some of the advice for the average person might be counterproductive. So you could for example keep everything the same and just change the amount of salt to see what happens. If it makes no difference, then look at another variable.
     
  9. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    Peata thank you for the links....am reading like crazy.

    J...yes I agree. I am trying to do that.

    Last night BP was soaring. I made the bicarbonate magnesium drink with a little OJ and it came down quite well. Did not get any laxative effect from the MoM so I am assuming I can increase the amount I drink tonight. I was waiting to be knocked out, like another poster mentioned, but was awake until 4 a.m. even adding milk and honey. I think the stress of the BP is getting to me and making everything worse.

    Another good side effect of the mag drink is I shed albs overnight....presumably water, and confirming that I am electrolyte imbalanced. But it is very hard to figure out the calcium/potassium/magnesium/sodium combo!
     
  10. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    Does anyone know the difference between seltzer water and club soda? The seltzer label says 100% carbonated water with no sodium. The club soda has sodium and other things added. Do they work basically the same?

    For effects of trying to lower high BP I know we want to increase salt, but do we want to increase sodium? Is there a difference?
     
  11. j.

    j. Guest

    If I recall correctly, I think salt is beneficial once thyroid function is well and calcium levels are ok. In other situations, I think salt can have undesirable effects. Before Peating I used to have heart palpitations from salt. After I became healthier, salt was beneficial, but not at the beginning.
     
  12. Jenn

    Jenn Member

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    I think the OJ is what is needed in this situation.
     
  13. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    I am not being contrary ...truly....I am desperate to understand this.

    If I never had oj before...eating low carb and perfect BP. Now I introduce the oj and bp goes up?

    I am assuming this unmasked an electrolyte imbalance? The high potassium in the oj pushed the potassium/mag ratio lower? Does this make sense to anyone?

    In previous labs I was always in the high end of normal ranges in calcium, sodium, potassium....but magnesium was always low compared to the others.

    I have other symptoms of low mag....tight muscles, anxiety, insomnia. And a new one now with Peating....constipation. After 6 tbsp of MoM in my club soda, not one trip to the bathroom.

    It's frustrating to start a new way of eating to start relieving old symptoms just to have new ones pop up in their place.

    I am continuing to be my own lab experiment and have not given up yet.
     
  14. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    An update for anyone who cares....this doesn't seem to be a common problem on this forum.

    I have been drinking the bicarbonate mag drink and thank God, BP has come down and stayed down all day today.

    It also kicked in with the intestines and had to jog a little at one point LOL.

    I will back down on tonight's drink, and see if BP stays down tomorrow.

    Lost 4 lbs (water weight I am sure) Pulse/temps looking better so today I am happy. :)
     
  15. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    You ain't kidding, Leo. I had exactly the same BP result when I started Peating, and I haven't figured it out yet. Jenn is keen on potassium, but almost everything I eat is high in potassium, I can't see low potassium as the cause. Indeed, potassium triggers the renin-angiotensin system to increase BP, as far as I can figure it out.

    I'm not familiar with the Milk of Magnesia or bicarbonate mag drink you refer to, can you explain it?

    Thanks
     
  16. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    Bing Ding....I have been searching here for where I found the drink recipe ....will continue to look for you.

    In a nutshell it is:

    1 liter of seltzer water or club soda
    3 tbs Milk of Magnesia

    Chill the soda....then add MoM.....shake well. Drink half the liter in the a.m. and half at night.

    **Warning: The MoM may cause diarhea in some. I took it for two days with no effects, then on day 3 had diarrhea, so have backed off now. BP is rising slowly after backing off.

    Peat answered me this a.m. regarding the OJ. He said the citric acid (sour oranges) in commercial OJ could be causing the high BP>.

    Ray Peat: "" Citric acid binds magnesium and calcium, and if the orange juice was sour (commercial juice usually has added citric acid) that might account for the blood pressure change.""

    Clin Nutr. 2006 Dec;25(6):984-93. Epub 2006 May 15.
    Tolerable infusion rate of citrate based on clinical signs and the
    electrocardiogram in conscious dogs.
    Fukuda T, Toyoshima S, Nakashima Y, Koshitani O, Kawaguchi Y, Momii A.
    Division of Pharmacology, Drug Safety and Metabolism, Otsuka Pharmaceutical
    Factory, Inc., Naruto, Tokushima 772-8601, Japan. fukudat2@otsukakj.co.jp
    BACKGROUND & AIMS: The possible clinical significance of the toxic effects of
    citrate has not yet been fully clarified. This study was therefore conducted to
    confirm the toxicity and determine the tolerable infusion rate of citrate
    administered by rapid intravenous infusion to conscious dogs.
    METHODS: Citrate solutions were infused via the cephalic vein of 4 conscious dogs
    at 0.33, 0.67, or 1.33mmol/kg/h up to 1.33mmol/kg. Clinical signs and the
    electrocardiogram were observed during and after infusion. Serum citrate and
    ionized calcium levels were also measured.
    RESULTS: Although the mean citrate level increased in accordance with the
    infusion rate, the calcium level decreased. No significant changes in clinical
    signs or the electrocardiogram were observed during infusion at 0.33mmol/kg/h
    despite an increase in the serum citrate level to 1.22+/-0.11mmol/l (pre-infusion
    value: 0.38+/-0.01mmol/l) and a decrease in the serum calcium level to
    1.28+/-0.03mmol/l (pre-infusion value: 1.50+/-0.05mmol/l). Vomiting and QTc
    prolongation were observed at 0.67mmol/kg/h or higher. Salivation and tachycardia
    were observed at 1.33mmol/kg/h.
    CONCLUSIONS: Based on clinical signs and the electrocardiogram, the tolerable
    infusion rate of citrate in conscious dogs is concluded to be 0.33mmol/kg/h.

    Today's experiment will be to drink zero orange juice.
     
  17. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Can you just eat oranges and get the benefit of the juice?
     
  18. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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  19. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    In an interview RP specifically mentioned high phosphorus increases BP.
    In this article he mentioned that calcium deficiency causes high blood pressure.
    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml
    PTH is a major factor in high BP. Low phosphorus, high calcium, vitamin D, Vitamin K,
    magnesium all lowers PTH.
    In KMUD Alkaline Acid interview he said that he has seen people lowering BP
    by 30 points in few days of bag breathing 1-2 minutes* 2-3 times a day.
    Bicarbonate water should do similar thing but he seemed to prefer bag breathing over
    bicarbonate. But one should be careful with bag breathing, excess bag breathing can
    cause kidney stone problems. I have seen people having problem with sodium bicarbonate too.
     
  20. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    The drink is now upsetting my intestines.

    How exactly do you do the bag breathing? Slow/fast?

    What aggravates me is that I was not low in anything before I started Peating. Now I am getting MORE calcium in milk, MORE potassium in OJ, heavy sodium from salting and NOW I get the high BP?? It is just hard to grasp.

    I had to cut back on the drink today and the bp is slowly rising again, so I may try the bag breathing...which really is a lot easier than drinking this drink.

    Also any good mag supplements that don't cause bowel problems? Epsom salt baths and magnesium oil are not doing anything for me.

    Thanks!
     
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