High b12 levels, no supplementation?

[Josh]

Got some blood tests recently, As you can see, Vitamin B12 pretty high, Creatinine and Albumin on the higher end.

I’ve had blood tests done EVERY year since 2016 and every year creatinine and albumin has been slightly over the normal range, it hasn’t changed for 5 years, Back in 2016 my diet was the OPPOSITE to what it is now, I was eating close to vegan back then. Who knows if they have always been elevated, I did take a short course of Accutane in 2013, stopped after 1 and half months.

I’ve never supplemented b12. I’ve been eating A LOT of red meat on a daily basis for a while now (at least 120g a day, sometimes as much as 300g a day), February 2021 my b12 levels were 666 and now their 924!
(I can’t eat dairy, don’t eat seafood, weight training 6 days a week so I need the protein)


The last few months I’ve noticed my hairs shedding more and got a lot thinner, I’ve developed onycholysis of the nails, and I do get days of extreme fatigue which I think is gut related (had fatigue days for years now though, before high b12)… But overall I feel much healthier, eczema is mostly clear but not 100%, energy levels most of the time are improving, strength improves in gym, libido has been excellent, sleep is amazing now etc etc etc


I’m not sure if I should be bothered about the Albumin and Creatinine as its always been high and EGFR is fine, docs have never seen an issue with it… but the b12, what the heck should I do with that, I can’t see reducing red meat to be a solution?

 

[InChristAlone]

Make sure to get enough thiamine and riboflavin to use the B12.

 

[charlie]

Make sure to get enough thiamine and riboflavin to use the B12.

 

[redsun]

Got some blood tests recently, As you can see, Vitamin B12 pretty high, Creatinine and Albumin on the higher end.

I’ve had blood tests done EVERY year since 2016 and every year creatinine and albumin has been slightly over the normal range, it hasn’t changed for 5 years, Back in 2016 my diet was the OPPOSITE to what it is now, I was eating close to vegan back then. Who knows if they have always been elevated, I did take a short course of Accutane in 2013, stopped after 1 and half months.

I’ve never supplemented b12. I’ve been eating A LOT of red meat on a daily basis for a while now (at least 120g a day, sometimes as much as 300g a day), February 2021 my b12 levels were 666 and now their 924!
(I can’t eat dairy, don’t eat seafood, weight training 6 days a week so I need the protein)


The last few months I’ve noticed my hairs shedding more and got a lot thinner, I’ve developed onycholysis of the nails, and I do get days of extreme fatigue which I think is gut related (had fatigue days for years now though, before high b12)… But overall I feel much healthier, eczema is mostly clear but not 100%, energy levels most of the time are improving, strength improves in gym, libido has been excellent, sleep is amazing now etc etc etc


I’m not sure if I should be bothered about the Albumin and Creatinine as its always been high and EGFR is fine, docs have never seen an issue with it… but the b12, what the heck should I do with that, I can’t see reducing red meat to be a solution?

Onycholysis can be due to iron deficiency. Obviously since you are eating a ton of red meat you are not lacking in total iron levels in the body so likely a cofactor necessary for iron metabolism is inadequate. So without knowing the rest of your diet its hard to know what could be lacking. If you dont eat fruits high in vitamin C that could be the problem. If your diet has been low in retinol for awhile, vitamin A could be depleted. If your diet doesnt have decent copper sources (and especially because you get a lot of iron and zinc as well), copper could be low.

Riboflavin needs are increased by exercise. So if you are going at it in the gym 6 times a week this could qualify. The only good sources of riboflavin are dairy and eggs and some seafood (and organs, which no one eats regularly). Dairy is out of the picture for you. Dont know if you eat eggs. Riboflavin may be the most likely culprit imo but again I don't know what nutrients your diet is providing besides what is in red meat.

Also about B12 I concur with the above posts, you may need more thiamine and riboflavin to lower B12. If your diet has become less diverse to the point where several nutrients are barely adequate or deficient then hair loss and thinning (more cortisol) is not an uncommon consequence.

 

[Locutus]

Onycholysis can be due to iron deficiency. Obviously since you are eating a ton of red meat you are not lacking in total iron levels in the body so likely a cofactor necessary for iron metabolism is inadequate. So without knowing the rest of your diet its hard to know what could be lacking. If you dont eat fruits high in vitamin C that could be the problem. If your diet has been low in retinol for awhile, vitamin A could be depleted. If your diet doesnt have decent copper sources (and especially because you get a lot of iron and zinc as well), copper could be low.

Riboflavin needs are increased by exercise. So if you are going at it in the gym 6 times a week this could qualify. The only good sources of riboflavin are dairy and eggs and some seafood (and organs, which no one eats regularly). Dairy is out of the picture for you. Dont know if you eat eggs. Riboflavin may be the most likely culprit imo but again I don't know what nutrients your diet is providing besides what is in red meat.

Also about B12 I concur with the above posts, you mlay need more thiamine and riboflavin to lower B12. If your diet has become less diverse to the point where several nutrients are barely adequate or deficient then hair loss and thinning (more cortisol) is not an uncommon consequence.

How much b1 and b2 should one take to lower high b12? I am taking energin 25 drops which includes 50 mg b1 and 15 mg b2... Is that enough? Should be safe to mega dose them since they are water soluble? Can I take more energin or just take extra b1 and b2? I had high b12 on my last blood test. Maybe root cause of insomnia?

Thought On My Labs Please?

Do these include liver panel? Nothing about testosterone?

raypeatforum.com

@charlie
@sugarbabe

 

[Hans]

Got some blood tests recently, As you can see, Vitamin B12 pretty high, Creatinine and Albumin on the higher end.

I’ve had blood tests done EVERY year since 2016 and every year creatinine and albumin has been slightly over the normal range, it hasn’t changed for 5 years, Back in 2016 my diet was the OPPOSITE to what it is now, I was eating close to vegan back then. Who knows if they have always been elevated, I did take a short course of Accutane in 2013, stopped after 1 and half months.

I’ve never supplemented b12. I’ve been eating A LOT of red meat on a daily basis for a while now (at least 120g a day, sometimes as much as 300g a day), February 2021 my b12 levels were 666 and now their 924!
(I can’t eat dairy, don’t eat seafood, weight training 6 days a week so I need the protein)


The last few months I’ve noticed my hairs shedding more and got a lot thinner, I’ve developed onycholysis of the nails, and I do get days of extreme fatigue which I think is gut related (had fatigue days for years now though, before high b12)… But overall I feel much healthier, eczema is mostly clear but not 100%, energy levels most of the time are improving, strength improves in gym, libido has been excellent, sleep is amazing now etc etc etc


I’m not sure if I should be bothered about the Albumin and Creatinine as its always been high and EGFR is fine, docs have never seen an issue with it… but the b12, what the heck should I do with that, I can’t see reducing red meat to be a solution?

Elevated B12 can also be due to SIBO.

 

[Josh]

Onycholysis can be due to iron deficiency. Obviously since you are eating a ton of red meat you are not lacking in total iron levels in the body so likely a cofactor necessary for iron metabolism is inadequate. So without knowing the rest of your diet its hard to know what could be lacking. If you dont eat fruits high in vitamin C that could be the problem. If your diet has been low in retinol for awhile, vitamin A could be depleted. If your diet doesnt have decent copper sources (and especially because you get a lot of iron and zinc as well), copper could be low.

Riboflavin needs are increased by exercise. So if you are going at it in the gym 6 times a week this could qualify. The only good sources of riboflavin are dairy and eggs and some seafood (and organs, which no one eats regularly). Dairy is out of the picture for you. Dont know if you eat eggs. Riboflavin may be the most likely culprit imo but again I don't know what nutrients your diet is providing besides what is in red meat.

Also about B12 I concur with the above posts, you may need more thiamine and riboflavin to lower B12. If your diet has become less diverse to the point where several nutrients are barely adequate or deficient then hair loss and thinning (more cortisol) is not an uncommon consequence.

Thanks for the reply @redsun ... I definitely know iron is not an issue as I'm normally loading iron from blood tests. I do eat 3 egg yolks per day, I have tried supplementing b1 and b2 but I don't get good reactions from the supplements, I dont have a crazy amount of vitamin c in my diet and I got my retinol tested a few weeks ago and it was in normal range, although based on what you've said, I think it would be good idea to try re introducing liver on a weekly basis! Thanks again for the suggestions!

 

[Locutus]

How much b1 and b2 should one take to lower high b12? I am taking energin 25 drops which includes 50 mg b1 and 15 mg b2... Is that enough? Should be safe to mega dose them since they are water soluble? Can I take more energin or just take extra b1 and b2? I had high b12 on my last blood test. Maybe root cause of insomnia?

Thought On My Labs Please?

Do these include liver panel? Nothing about testosterone?

raypeatforum.com

@charlie
@sugarbabe

there is a MTHFR/CFS rabbit hole... this is one of the few places I ever heard of high B12..

high level idea:

high B12 might actually be functional deficiency
some mega dose B1 and lower B12 effectively (either the liver can eliminate the excess or its used properly by cells...)
some suggest using lithium
some say B2 but not in the megadose context...
some say take some methylated active form of B12...

will try xtra B1 HCL . Upper limit 2g build up slowly...
Seems safest thing to try with highest likelihood to deliver most bang for the buck.

 

[Josh]

Thanks all for your suggestions!

 

[Peatness]

Hypertension, the Autonomic System, and Thiamine - Hormones Matter

It has been shown in the above text that hypoxia and pseudo-hypoxia have virtually identical effects in the area of the brain that is peculiarly sensitive to thiamine deficiency.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Posted in the comment section of this article

Derrick Lonsdale says:

B12 requires energy to become active. If energy is in short supply, the inactive B12 and folate (also energy activated) both pile up uselessly in the blood, a strong indicator of ATP deficiency resulting from lack of thiamine. That is why a recent medical article that reported high blood levels of B12 and folate in a pregnant woman predicted an indication that the infant would become autistic after birth. This supports thiamine deficiency as a cause of autism, a fact that has recently been published elsewhere. This MS studied the thiamine content of breast milk and showed that thiamine deficient maternal malnutrition was a cause of ASD by inactivating B12 and folate as a result of thiamine deficiency.