Hidden Nasties In Our Food

Dr. B

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I have been a bit confused as to Palm oil, palm fruit oil too, but his article on unsaturated oils cleared things up.

what did it clear up about palm oil ?I think the issue with it is the carotene content not the PUFA since its low. its actually similar to beef fat and others.

palm kernel oil may be also be fine. i think he generally doesnt like nut or seed oils but there are exceptions with the tropical ones, maybe macadmia nut oil and milk are very low pufa, high sfa and mufa?
 
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what did it clear up about palm oil ?I think the issue with it is the carotene content not the PUFA since its low. its actually similar to beef fat and others.

palm kernel oil may be also be fine. i think he generally doesnt like nut or seed oils but there are exceptions with the tropical ones, maybe macadmia nut oil and milk are very low pufa, high sfa and mufa?

He said, "Chemically, the material that makes these oils very toxic is the polyunsaturated fat itself." -Ray Peat
 
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Palm oil appears to have some benefits compared to other oils including olive oil, but he doesn't consider it to be one of the safest.

"Intense lobbying by the soybean oil industry has created the widespread belief that "tropical oils" cause heart disease. In a comparison of many kinds of oil, including linseed oil, olive oil, whale oil, etc., palm oil appeared to be the most protective. The same researcher [32] more recently studied palm oil's antithrombotic effect, in relation to platelet aggregation. It was found that platelet aggregation was enhanced by sunflowerseed oil, but that palm oil tended to decrease it." - Ray Peat

Q. What oils are safe?

"Coconut and olive oil are the only vegetable oils that are really safe, but butter and lamb fat, which are highly saturated, are generally very safe (except when the animals have been poisoned). Coconut oil is unique in its ability to prevent weight-gain or cure obesity, by stimulating metabolism. It is quickly metabolized, and functions in some ways as an antioxidant. Olive oil, though it is somewhat fattening, is less fattening than corn or soy oil, and contains an antioxidant which makes it protective against makes it protective against heart disease and cancer." -Ray Peat

It looks like Palm oil, olive oil and other oils have some pro's that don't necessarily outweigh the cons.
 

Dr. B

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Palm oil appears to have some benefits compared to other oils including olive oil, but he doesn't consider it to be one of the safest.

"Intense lobbying by the soybean oil industry has created the widespread belief that "tropical oils" cause heart disease. In a comparison of many kinds of oil, including linseed oil, olive oil, whale oil, etc., palm oil appeared to be the most protective. The same researcher [32] more recently studied palm oil's antithrombotic effect, in relation to platelet aggregation. It was found that platelet aggregation was enhanced by sunflowerseed oil, but that palm oil tended to decrease it." - Ray Peat

Q. What oils are safe?

"Coconut and olive oil are the only vegetable oils that are really safe, but butter and lamb fat, which are highly saturated, are generally very safe (except when the animals have been poisoned). Coconut oil is unique in its ability to prevent weight-gain or cure obesity, by stimulating metabolism. It is quickly metabolized, and functions in some ways as an antioxidant. Olive oil, though it is somewhat fattening, is less fattening than corn or soy oil, and contains an antioxidant which makes it protective against makes it protective against heart disease and cancer." -Ray Peat

It looks like Palm oil, olive oil and other oils have some pro's that don't necessarily outweigh the cons.

I wonder if he just included palm oil in that Q and A answers by typo. ""Mainly, I'm referring to soybean oil, corn oil, safflower oil, canola, sesame oil, sunflower seed oil, palm oil, and any others that are labeled as "unsaturated" or "polyunsaturated." Almond oil, which is used in many cosmetics, is very unsaturated."

unless maybe there are some types of palm oil with lots of pufa. or it could be the carotene, hes mentioned carotene is unsaturated, should be avoided, and is why he advises limiting carrot, sweet potato and any other carotene consumption. him and Danny both prefer using olive oil to other oils in their carrot salad, for taste and they said it digests better. somehow it seems easier on the gut than coconut oil...
 

Dr. B

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Palm oil appears to have some benefits compared to other oils including olive oil, but he doesn't consider it to be one of the safest.

"Intense lobbying by the soybean oil industry has created the widespread belief that "tropical oils" cause heart disease. In a comparison of many kinds of oil, including linseed oil, olive oil, whale oil, etc., palm oil appeared to be the most protective. The same researcher [32] more recently studied palm oil's antithrombotic effect, in relation to platelet aggregation. It was found that platelet aggregation was enhanced by sunflowerseed oil, but that palm oil tended to decrease it." - Ray Peat

Q. What oils are safe?

"Coconut and olive oil are the only vegetable oils that are really safe, but butter and lamb fat, which are highly saturated, are generally very safe (except when the animals have been poisoned). Coconut oil is unique in its ability to prevent weight-gain or cure obesity, by stimulating metabolism. It is quickly metabolized, and functions in some ways as an antioxidant. Olive oil, though it is somewhat fattening, is less fattening than corn or soy oil, and contains an antioxidant which makes it protective against makes it protective against heart disease and cancer." -Ray Peat

It looks like Palm oil, olive oil and other oils have some pro's that don't necessarily outweigh the cons.

Palm oil apparently is just the palm fruit oil. palm kernel oil is the seed oil and I think that is also highly saturated, maybe it lacks carotenes. i feel like someone here was saying palm kernel oil is safer or better than palm oil, maybe it lacks the carotenes. And maybe palm oil is less allergenic than coconut oil. Ray seems to have an issue with coconut oil being a nut oil.

Red palm oil is rich in carotenes, such as alpha-carotene, beta-carotene and lycopene, which give it a characteristic dark red color.[115][117] However, palm oil that has been refined, bleached and deodorized from crude palm oil (called "RBD palm oil") does not contain carotenes.

Palm oil, like all fats, is composed of fatty acids, esterified with glycerol. Palm oil has an especially high concentration of saturated fat, specifically the 16-carbon saturated fatty acid, palmitic acid, to which it gives its name. Monounsaturated oleic acid is also a major constituent of palm oil. Unrefined palm oil is a significant source of tocotrienol, part of the vitamin E family

Palm kernel oil, similarly to coconut oil, is high in saturated fats and is more saturated than palm oil.

looking at the picture here, the palm kernel oil is very clear whereas palm oil is a deep red and looks milky

Palm oil is an edible vegetable oil derived from the mesocarp (reddish pulp) of the fruit of the oil palms
 

Eberhardt

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I will just add that previously Peat has said that palmoil is less problematic due to more saturated fat and is probably ok in moderation. Btw I agree about the betacaroteen
 

Dr. B

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I will just add that previously Peat has said that palmoil is less problematic due to more saturated fat and is probably ok in moderation. Btw I agree about the betacaroteen
theres a few processed foods that actually use this
krispy kreme doughnuts and other pastries
the justins brand nut butters, some have SFA due to palm oil added as a preservative. shelf stable too and no emulsifiers needed
 

Dave Clark

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I think when people refer to palm oils they should definitely consider the difference in the type of oils found in both:
Palm kernel oil is maligned by the media because it is 'high in saturated fat', but that may be a good thing, when stability and oxidation and percentage of PUFA is concerned. If you need a frying oil and don't have coconut oil or butter, palm kernel oil is the next best thing, from what I can see.
 

Dr. B

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I think when people refer to palm oils they should definitely consider the difference in the type of oils found in both:
Palm kernel oil is maligned by the media because it is 'high in saturated fat', but that may be a good thing, when stability and oxidation and percentage of PUFA is concerned. If you need a frying oil and don't have coconut oil or butter, palm kernel oil is the next best thing, from what I can see.
palm oil is also maligned by the media and by activists, apparently palm oil farming harms the animal species living in those palm trees, certain apes etc
does the palm kernel oil lack the beta carotene and other carotenoids and vitamiN E tocotrienols found in palm oil?
tocotrienol supplements seem to be sourced usually from red palm oil
also does palm kernel mean the seed of the palm tree/palm fruit? so its an actual mostly saturated fatty acid seed thats safe to eat?
 

Dave Clark

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palm oil is also maligned by the media and by activists, apparently palm oil farming harms the animal species living in those palm trees, certain apes etc
does the palm kernel oil lack the beta carotene and other carotenoids and vitamiN E tocotrienols found in palm oil?
tocotrienol supplements seem to be sourced usually from red palm oil
also does palm kernel mean the seed of the palm tree/palm fruit? so its an actual mostly saturated fatty acid seed thats safe to eat?
Palm kernel does not have the carotenes and other carotenoids, and I don't believe it has any tocotrienol {which should please some people on this forum}. It is a white solid fat that sort of reminds you of the old Crisco in looks and texture. I don't think it is the preferred oil to consume everyday, but for frying, it is very heat and oxidation stable, which is most likely due to its high level of SFAs. I can't see the point of eating it straight or mixing it with food for consumption {unlike coconut oil or olive oil}, but for cooking I think it is much safer than oils with PUFAs.
 

Dr. B

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Palm kernel does not have the carotenes and other carotenoids, and I don't believe it has any tocotrienol {which should please some people on this forum}. It is a white solid fat that sort of reminds you of the old Crisco in looks and texture. I don't think it is the preferred oil to consume everyday, but for frying, it is very heat and oxidation stable, which is most likely due to its high level of SFAs. I can't see the point of eating it straight or mixing it with food for consumption {unlike coconut oil or olive oil}, but for cooking I think it is much safer than oils with PUFAs.
is palm kernel the seed of the palm fruit/tree?
palm oil itself is already similar to beef fat in composition isnt it
what percentage saturated is palm kernel oil
 
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"Monosodium glutamate as we know it today is added as a flavor enhancer to several types of processed foods. Its role is generally to make food taste even better so that we crave more of it and want to continue eating it. You can find it in powdered cheeses, breading on chicken nuggets and fish sticks, in crackers, and other foods that are often marketed to our kids.

These food additives are usually unnecessary. In fact, laboratory rats are fed MSG to fatten them up for study. (Their offspring often have issues, too, such as learning and focusing issues, higher obesity rates, and seizures.)"

 
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"I use some of these oils (walnut oil is very nice, but safflower oil is cheaper) for oil painting, but I am careful to wash my hands thoroughly after I touch them, because they can be absorbed through the skin." -Ray Peat
 
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"Consumption of unsaturated fat has been associated with both skin aging and with the sensitivity of the skin to ultraviolet damage, Ultraviolet light-induced skin cancer seems to be mediated by unsaturated fats and lipid peroxidation." -Ray Peat
 
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"In a detailed study of the carcinogenicity of different quantities of unsaturated fat, Ip, et al., tested levels ranging from 0.5% to 10%, and found that the cancer incidence varied with the amount of "essential oils" in the diet. Some of their graphs make the point very clearly." -Ray Peat
 
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"The estrogen-promoting actions of soy oil apply to all of the commonly used polyunsaturated fatty acids. The same fatty acids that suppress thyroid function, have estrogenic effects." -Ray Peat
 

Dr. B

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"The estrogen-promoting actions of soy oil apply to all of the commonly used polyunsaturated fatty acids. The same fatty acids that suppress thyroid function, have estrogenic effects." -Ray Peat
soy oil has phytoestrogen compounds that other pufa oils like sunflower oil lack
peanut oil has some phytoestrogens, soy has the most, corn has less, sunflower has less etc
 
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soy oil has phytoestrogen compounds that other pufa oils like sunflower oil lack
peanut oil has some phytoestrogens, soy has the most, corn has less, sunflower has less etc

What I got from that quote was that soy oil has the same estrogen promoting FATS as the other commonly used oils and that phytoestrogens weren't the big problem.
 

Dave Clark

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What I got from that quote was that soy oil has the same estrogen promoting FATS as the other commonly used oils and that phytoestrogens weren't the big problem.
Just speculating, but how many of the phytoestrogens are really left in the oil after the refining process? Probably not enough to have a distinct effect. I believe, like you said, that he was referring to the unsaturated fats being the problem. Not that added estrogens are good, but any PUFA is going to have the negative effects, based on Ray's teachings.
 
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Just speculating, but how many of the phytoestrogens are really left in the oil after the refining process? Probably not enough to have a distinct effect. I believe, like you said, that he was referring to the unsaturated fats being the problem. Not that added estrogens are good, but any PUFA is going to have the negative effects, based on Ray's teachings.

Exactly! He was saying that despite the phytoestrogens, the other unsaturated oils are just as as toxic as the soy oil.
 

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