Hi Help I'm confused:)

kamaladasi

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Apr 27, 2014
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Hi I'm from Australia and have hashimotos and the antibodies for graves and adrenal issues (I think).
The docs in Australia are useless at helping thyroid patients so I have used alternative treatments wherever possible. I take dessicated thyroid (2 grains per day) and b12, vit d and on and off iron, magnesium, zinc.
I have just recently started having phone consultations with a doc in America who is helping me manage my thyroid meds and supplements as I have been doing this on my own. This doc prescribed me selenium, b1 b2 b3 b5 b6 b12 biotin, vit d, coq10, iron, a adrenal support and pregnenolone 25mg daily. I started taking the pregnenolone but was feeling very angry and full of rage at times so I jumped on the net and started looking into pregnenolone a bit more. I found a lot of people saying to only use very small doses and no more then 10mg so I got a little scared and have been taking half the dose by opening the capsule and roughly taking half. I feel better from this but not entirely and its hard to know if its a case of mind over matter as I read the large doses can be dangerous and panic a little.
So I'm hoping someone can tell me if I should have just stayed on the 25mg and the side effects would have gone or if I should stay on a lower dose. It would also be helpful if someone could inform me about what to do with body temps and pulse? I have 3 young children and have trouble finding the time to sift through information.
I am 30 years old and in the past year I have put on 7-10kg ( I weigh 70kg) and feel like I have a lot less strength and stamina then I used to. I have always been a vegetarian from birth and have been mostly gluten free for 4 years (my dads a ceoliac) and I have just finally gone dairy free. I make most of my food myself from scratch but still use staples (such as tin tomatoes, almond meal, some tin lentils, tin kidney beans etc) and some gf bread here and there.
I'm new at this forum and not very good with computers so hopefully I have posted this in the right location.
Warm regards
Kamaladasi
 
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K

kamaladasi

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Apr 27, 2014
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oh okay I just read about the ray peat diet and I pretty much am the opposite, still if anyone has any info on pregnenolone I would greatly appreciate it
Thanks
Kamaladasi
 

mas

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Feb 12, 2014
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Hi Kamaladasi and welcome!

Try to sit back and relax. I would start with these resources first:

Ray Peat's site Articles
http://raypeat.com

Audio- relax and listen:
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/0 ... nterviews/

I am finding that reading older threads on this forum site to be very helpful or you can do direct searches for specific information and how people here are approaching their healing quest. i also reread Ray's articles periodically because as I begin to understand a bit more of the science behind it and get new insights.

There is a lot to be learned from personal experience here.
 

charlie

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kamaladasi, :welcome
 

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:welcome2 Glad you found the forum kamaladasi!
 
J

j.

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If you react badly to a pregnenolone pill, it could be some additive that's causing the reaction.

If pregnenolone itself is what's causing the trouble, there are two schools of thought. One thinks taking too much can be dangerous. Others think taking too little can be dangerous, and it's probably better to take hundreds of milligrams or even a gram for better results.

Also, we typically consider iron to be dangerous, in most contexts. There are other people here who know which tests you need to get to make really sure you have low iron.
 
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j. said:
Others think taking too little can be dangerous, and it's probably better to take hundreds of milligrams or even a gram for better results.

I'm sorry but I cannot find these opinions. Do you know why they said this?
 
J

j.

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Ray Peat said:
Pregnenolone, taken orally, does nothing noticeable to a healthy animal or person, but if the stress-related hormones are elevated, they return to normal when pregnenolone is taken. The brain contains much more pregnenolone, DHEA, and progesterone than do other organs or the blood, and these levels decrease progressively with age. Older people are more likely to feel an effect from pregnenolone, than are young people. A tenth of a gram is a reasonable first dose, though some people seem to need as much as 1 gram per day.

Source: Steroids, from Generative Energy: Restoring the Wholeness of Life
 
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But too little would be dangerous because of stress antagonism? Is that correct? I apologize to you, kamaladasi :) you can't go wrong with 50mg, be sure! I got irritability the first time, too.
 

aguilaroja

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kamaladasi said:
...have hashimotos and the antibodies for graves and adrenal issues (I think).
...I have always been a vegetarian from birth and have been mostly gluten free ...and I have just finally gone dairy free. I make most of my food myself from scratch but still use staples (such as tin tomatoes, almond meal, some tin lentils, tin kidney beans etc) and some gf bread here and there

Was pregnenolone definitely the only factor that changer during the episodes of anger?

I agree that one concern is simply the excipients/additives in pregnenolone capsules/tablets.

From the description of the US provider's recommendation, it is a different viewpoint from Dr. Peat's. It would be good to understand the rationale for each approach and determine what works for you.

If you have been a lifelong vegetarian, the probability of protein deprivation is high. Are your cheekbones and temples prominent or your face thin? That often reflects low facial muscle bulk when protein is being conserved for other muscles. It's hard to get large protein amounts from vegan sources. The legume and cabbage families can be notably thyroid suppressing.

If you are vegetarian and dairy free, the cholesterol intake could be very long, and low for a long time. Cholesterol is a necessary nutrient, and a basic building block for hormones, including the branches leading to thyroid and adrenal hormone production.

Pregnenolone can be very helpful augmentation. However, in observing acquaintances with diagnosed Hashimoto's who improved through Peat-ing, I have not seen pregnenolone be the major factor. By description, arranging adequate protein and cholesterol is an easier and clearer early step. Salt is another (cheap, available) restorative factor that tends to be overlooked in some widespread diet-lifestyles.
 

Mittir

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Welcome to the forum

RP thinks autoimmune diagnosis of Hashimoto and Graves are misunderstanding of
an old disease ,which used to be called " Colloid Goiter". Autoimmune thyroid disease
is about 10 times higher in female than in male and RP thinks excess estrogen
and low progesterone are the reason for this disease.
Estrogen blocks conversion of T4 to active T3 in liver and secretion of thyroid
hormone from the thyroid glands, which results in inflamed and enlarged thyroid.
Hypothyroid people goes through a hyperthyroid phase when those excess stored
thyroid hormone is released from the thyroid glands. RP mentioned that those antibodies doctors
measure are simply a part of clean up system resulting from inflammation of the glands.
He has also mentioned a study where patients antibodies were lowered when they were treated
with thyroid hormone. It shows that antibodies are related to lack of thyroid hormone.
Gland is also inflamed in so called " Graves Autoimmune disease".
Here are few useful interviews on autoimmune thyroid disease.
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2857

Since, Estrogen is the root cause of hypothyroidism in most female,
it is very important to have a healthy liver. A healthy liver inactivate all the
estrogen passes through it. Liver needs active thyroid hormone
T3, B vitamins particularly B1,B2 and B6, selenium, at least 80 grams of quality
protein and steady blood sugar level to function efficiently.
RP has mentioned that he has seen people fixed their hypothyroidism
just by increasing their protein intake.
Low protein intake can very quickly weaken the liver and increase estrogen.
RP mentioned that only potato has the good quality protein.
You can try starch free cooked potato juice for protein.
1 quart of potato juice has about 30 grams of protein, lots of
vitamin and minerals. If you are lactose intolerant as many hypothyroid
people are, you can try cheese for protein and calcium.
Home made farmer's cheese is very safe and chemical free.
But it lacks calcium. Calcium plays a big role in lowering stress hormones.
Daily raw carrot salad is extremely important in keeping estrogen level down.
RP is not a big fan of commercial supplements for bad excipeints and poor quality.
He particularly mentioned Riboflavin and Folic acid being quite allergenic.
Vitamin A is also essential in keeping anti stress hormones up.
Fortified milk has good amount of vitamin A.

RP mentioned that large dose of Pregnenolone is safe if the product is
free of bad excipient. He also mentioned that there were changes in commercial
Pregnenolone production. He thinks there is a possibility that these products are
not good. You can try progesterone instead of pregnenolone.
progesterone directly knocks out estrogen.
Many females here had good results using Progest-E.
You can find answers to most of your questions from this collection
of Ray Peat's email advice. http://peatarian.com/peatexchanges
Ray Peat said:
Pregnenolone

[TOPICAL PREGNENOLONE IN VITAMIN E COMPARED TO PROGEST-E FOR WOUND HEALING] Yes, probably better for most things.

[Does pregnenolone have to be micronized for it to dissolve in vitamin e?] It doesn't dissolve very well either way, it just takes some stirring and a little warmth.
Vitamin E breaks down quickly when it's hot, so stirring at room temperature is best; not much dissolves. It's much more economical to use it orally, as powder.

Ordinarily, you can make enough from converting sugar to cholesterol, with thyroid and vitamin A converting cholesterol to the other hormones. But when you have been poisoned with not enough of the needed foods, or too much of the unsaturated oils, heavy metals, causing free radical reactions and so on, then it helps to use all of the supports possible, thyroid supplements, pregnenolone supplements, possibly dhea and progesterone, saturated fats, sugar, everything that works in the same direction.

Pregnenolone is a lipid, only pharmaceutical salesmen talk about the need for a lipid matrix. Most people don't have allergic reactions to the rice and magnesium stearate.

[BAD RESPONSE TO PREG] I think that would be from impurities in the pregnenolone. In animal studies, a dose equivalent to about a pound in a person, caused no change, unless the animal was stressed, and in that case it stopped the stress. [PREGNENOLONE 'STEAL' THEORY] Regarding the pregnenolone steal theory, It would be interesting to know who started that, it's a mechanical way of thinking about physiology that ignores the things that really matter. Thyroid hormone, vitamin A, and cholesterol support the formation of pregnenolone, and the well nourished body is able to make large adjustments in these, to minimize the need for cortisol. In health, enough pregnenolone and progesterone are produced to inhibit the stress systems, for example by inhibiting the release of ACTH. When something prevents the formation of pregnenolone and progesterone, rising ACTH will increase its production as conditions permit, but if something, such as thyroid hormone, is lacking, the ACTH will increase cortisol, often with DHEA and the androgens increasing too, if resources permit; sometimes the stressed system is able to sustain only cortisol and aldosterone production, and that leads to degenerative problems.

Someone recently tested pregnenolone for Beyond a Century, and said it looks pure. Sometimes at first a few hundred milligrams are needed to lower cortisol.
 

aguilaroja

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Mittir said:
..Liver needs active thyroid hormone T3,...B1,B2 and B6, selenium, at least 80 grams of quality protein and steady blood sugar level to function efficiently. RP has mentioned that he has seen people fixed their hypothyroidism just by increasing their protein intake.

Low protein intake can very quickly weaken the liver and increase estrogen.RP mentioned that only potato has the good quality protein. You can try starch free cooked potato juice for protein. 1 quart of potato juice has about 30 grams of protein, lots of
vitamin and minerals. If you are lactose intolerant...you can try cheese for protein and calcium.
Home made farmer's cheese is very safe..But it lacks calcium. ]

I agree with all Mittir's excellent points.... I would add that if it meets the moral and personal preferences, other sources of protein like good-quality egg, gelatin, non-oily/clean shellfish and fish, beef & lamb can be helpful. With months and years of low protein intake, fairly safe protein sources are important. Avoid soy/bean protein sources if possible.

I have also seen gratifying improvements in acquaintances with low thyroid, sluggish liver, and/or high estrogen states "simply" through better protein intake. Conversely, I had seen lagging recovery with thyroid supplementing when protein intake runs low.
 
J

j.

Guest
Mittir said:
Home made farmer's cheese is very safe and chemical free.
But it lacks calcium.

I thought it was low in calcium, not that it lacked it, and not even that low, but had a 1:2 calcium to phosphorus ratio.
 
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