Hey! This Forum Full Of Geniuses Has Helped Deliver Me From Sad Cripple To Super Saiyan

[Aaron]

Totally glad to hear that.

Did you have any problem re introducing milk after vegan?

What does your workouts look like?

Thanks and congrats for your recovered health bro.

Thanks man. My issues with milk actually coincided with my increased consumption of whole grain cereals and nuts and seeds as well as consuming SAD (more PUFA's, more chemicals). I don't know what the interactions were really, but a glass of milk used to give me bloating all day and now I can drink a gallon of the cheapest milk (yeah, I rely on the stuff that costs $2.50/gal) without issue. I do notice I cannot digest as much milk whenever my fiber intake is higher or I'm having digestive issues from some other food. My guess is that the GI puts a lower energy priority on producing lactase when it's being taxed by other things. I am Finnish and German so I might have better lactase enzymes than normal but my mom is apparently lactose intolerant.

what happened with the back injury? you just don't have pain anymore even after that?

It was an L5-S1 region herniation, but I'm not convinced the herniation itself was the root of my problems - rather, I think I had tight, weak supportive muscles and fascia. I would find myself tweaking my back from leaning over in my chair and spending the next few days writhing in pain and barely able to move. It was when I started educating myself on proper stretches for the QL and overall posterior chain as well as incorporating a high-volume bodybuilding-style weightlifting regimen that things started really getting better. I was still going to the gym a couple times a week while in pain, but my full recovery started after my car accident in mid-2017. I was still consuming a lot of crappy plant foods like walnuts, flax (phytoestrogens are baddd, but that's another topic), and whole wheat but the most significant change in my diet was adding around 70g of whey protein daily. That seemed to make a massive difference on my recovery and ability to build my strength back up. More meat would have helped too but I was fearful about it due to NutritionFacts.org videos and I was essentially living with a protein deficiency for a few years (often under 100g at 220+ lbs).

Very nice report. High aminos is wonderful, and you got the right supplements, not abusing it. I deadlift over 500 as well but g** d*** this 315 bench is so far away ):

Also it’s nice that you’re bringing up nutritionfacts. Greger brings a lot of valid information but his bias is such quackery. Comments there are cult like. So you meant processed vegetable fats, phytic acid loaded foods that bring nothing but starch, and sweetened “healthy” veggie bombs are bad for health? Hmmmmm

Zinc could be a nice addition to the diet if the skin stays troublesome

Zinc has also been a key supplement for me. I agree - it's almost comical how the vegan community, particularly on YouTube, fawns around him, following his "daily dozen" which contains a thyroid-crushing stack of cruciferous vegetables, anti-nutrients, and phytoestrogens. One glance at Dr. Greger should tell you there is something wrong - his biceps are so atrophied they look inverted. There are more issues with his diet than just his recommendation of "50g of protein a day."

My bench became a bit disproportionate due to only making progress on that lift for a couple years. Actually, my triceps are a bit disproportionate. I do can do 6 pause reps at 315 but my deadlift 1RM is 5 plates. Honestly, 500 is pretty solid IMO and I don't feel the need to push it knowing the hellscape of being in pain all the time. My 1RM junior year of college was mid-500's.

You look excellent by the way. Right now I'm in limbo between wanting to get much bigger and stronger and also cutting for summer. Gonna have to settle for "less aesthetic Joe Manganiello" this year.

Yeah I agree, perhaps some of us are more sensitive to the Prolactin surge after an orgasm, but whenever I see this idea pop up it gets shut down for some reason. To me it is also an obvious correlation, that could add up and exacerbates the lack of calcium, vitamin D, vitamin E, etc...

Yeah it eventually became an unquestionably obvious correlation for me. Especially on, ahem, compulsive days. Luckily my face has been clear for several years, but I've consistently felt better and my back is clear on nofap. Next goal = 1000 days of nofap lol.

Wow those are some strong lift numbers. Can you speak a little more about your workout regimen, and how long you have been at it? What is your squat? Overhead press? My numbers are similar to yours though recently I have been dialing back the volume significantly because I am worried about excess stress and long term joint function.

Thank you. I've been lifting since freshman year of college, but there were many years of inconsistency and lost progress. On a caloric surplus, my push routine is something like:

5x5 @ 315 bench or 5x5 @ 225 standing military press (I often opt for higher volume than this if I'm not feeling powerful that day)
Between 3x8 and 5x10 @ 185 standing military press, depending on how fresh my shoulder joints are feeling
Between 3x10 an 5x10 tricep pulldowns
Between 3x8 and 5x10 incline dumbbell press
3x12 unweighted dips usually supersetted with something else, maybe finished up with 20 x 225 on bench
I mostly focus on achieving the biggest pump I can as I've found this is the most telltale sign for hypertrophy. Of course I smash protein (with beta alanine, creatine, and magnesium) + carbs before and/or after. I used to be more interested in numbers but I enjoy a higher volume bodybuilding workout now.

My squat 1RM is 415. I squat ATG though because I find it stretches out and strengthens the whole posterior chain nicely. I can do more weight with "slightly below parallel" form. I don't really have concerns about my joints as the things that seem to make my joints worse are lower rep powerlifting, losing form, and running on concrete. Everything feels smooth, comfortable and stable or I make adjustments. If anything, my joints seem to constantly be improving and I have avoided injuries, probably due to the increased bloodflow, local growth response, and increased protein synthesis. Gymnastics also seems to improve my joints - the harder impacts are probably building more bone density. I do take glucosamine with MSM but idk if that does anything.

 

[sladerunner69]

Thanks man. My issues with milk actually coincided with my increased consumption of whole grain cereals and nuts and seeds as well as consuming SAD (more PUFA's, more chemicals). I don't know what the interactions were really, but a glass of milk used to give me bloating all day and now I can drink a gallon of the cheapest milk (yeah, I rely on the stuff that costs $2.50/gal) without issue. I do notice I cannot digest as much milk whenever my fiber intake is higher or I'm having digestive issues from some other food. My guess is that the GI puts a lower energy priority on producing lactase when it's being taxed by other things. I am Finnish and German so I might have better lactase enzymes than normal but my mom is apparently lactose intolerant.



It was an L5-S1 region herniation, but I'm not convinced the herniation itself was the root of my problems - rather, I think I had tight, weak supportive muscles and fascia. I would find myself tweaking my back from leaning over in my chair and spending the next few days writhing in pain and barely able to move. It was when I started educating myself on proper stretches for the QL and overall posterior chain as well as incorporating a high-volume bodybuilding-style weightlifting regimen that things started really getting better. I was still going to the gym a couple times a week while in pain, but my full recovery started after my car accident in mid-2017. I was still consuming a lot of crappy plant foods like walnuts, flax (phytoestrogens are baddd, but that's another topic), and whole wheat but the most significant change in my diet was adding around 70g of whey protein daily. That seemed to make a massive difference on my recovery and ability to build my strength back up. More meat would have helped too but I was fearful about it due to NutritionFacts.org videos and I was essentially living with a protein deficiency for a few years (often under 100g at 220+ lbs).



Zinc has also been a key supplement for me. I agree - it's almost comical how the vegan community, particularly on YouTube, fawns around him, following his "daily dozen" which contains a thyroid-crushing stack of cruciferous vegetables, anti-nutrients, and phytoestrogens. One glance at Dr. Greger should tell you there is something wrong - his biceps are so atrophied they look inverted. There are more issues with his diet than just his recommendation of "50g of protein a day."

My bench became a bit disproportionate due to only making progress on that lift for a couple years. Actually, my triceps are a bit disproportionate. I do can do 6 pause reps at 315 but my deadlift 1RM is 5 plates. Honestly, 500 is pretty solid IMO and I don't feel the need to push it knowing the hellscape of being in pain all the time. My 1RM junior year of college was mid-500's.

You look excellent by the way. Right now I'm in limbo between wanting to get much bigger and stronger and also cutting for summer. Gonna have to settle for "less aesthetic Joe Manganiello" this year.



Yeah it eventually became an unquestionably obvious correlation for me. Especially on, ahem, compulsive days. Luckily my face has been clear for several years, but I've consistently felt better and my back is clear on nofap. Next goal = 1000 days of nofap lol.



Thank you. I've been lifting since freshman year of college, but there were many years of inconsistency and lost progress. On a caloric surplus, my push routine is something like:

5x5 @ 315 bench or 5x5 @ 225 standing military press (I often opt for higher volume than this if I'm not feeling powerful that day)
Between 3x8 and 5x10 @ 185 standing military press, depending on how fresh my shoulder joints are feeling
Between 3x10 an 5x10 tricep pulldowns
Between 3x8 and 5x10 incline dumbbell press
3x12 unweighted dips usually supersetted with something else, maybe finished up with 20 x 225 on bench
I mostly focus on achieving the biggest pump I can as I've found this is the most telltale sign for hypertrophy. Of course I smash protein (with beta alanine, creatine, and magnesium) + carbs before and/or after. I used to be more interested in numbers but I enjoy a higher volume bodybuilding workout now.

My squat 1RM is 415. I squat ATG though because I find it stretches out and strengthens the whole posterior chain nicely. I can do more weight with "slightly below parallel" form. I don't really have concerns about my joints as the things that seem to make my joints worse are lower rep powerlifting, losing form, and running on concrete. Everything feels smooth, comfortable and stable or I make adjustments. If anything, my joints seem to constantly be improving and I have avoided injuries, probably due to the increased bloodflow, local growth response, and increased protein synthesis. Gymnastics also seems to improve my joints - the harder impacts are probably building more bone density. I do take glucosamine with MSM but idk if that does anything.

So that is a weekly regimen then? Waaaay too much volume for me. If I push that kind of weight for that period of time (like I did almost daily in my teens) I will feel like garbage. Maybe you should consider dialing back the lifting and see if it benefits your overall state of being?

 

[Aaron]

So that is a weekly regimen then? Waaaay too much volume for me. If I push that kind of weight for that period of time (like I did almost daily in my teens) I will feel like garbage. Maybe you should consider dialing back the lifting and see if it benefits your overall state of being?

Haha no, I lift like that 5 times a week (sometimes that routine 3-4 times). I find as long as my protein and carbs are where they need to be, I continue making progress on this routine. And the pumps last all day which is nice. I always notice that I feel better, but I may change my tune when I'm a bit older. You would hate my back workout... I start out with dumbbell rows 5x10 @ 110 lbs, then 3x10 bent over barbell rows @ 225, then about 20 more sets of other things.

 

[Arrade]

Haha no, I lift like that 5 times a week (sometimes that routine 3-4 times). I find as long as my protein and carbs are where they need to be, I continue making progress on this routine. And the pumps last all day which is nice. I always notice that I feel better, but I may change my tune when I'm a bit older. You would hate my back workout... I start out with dumbbell rows 5x10 @ 110 lbs, then 3x10 bent over barbell rows @ 225, then about 20 more sets of other things.

and now I hate myself /s
I'm with you Aaron I actually feel better lifting almost every day of the week

 

[Aaron]

and now I hate myself /s
I'm with you Aaron I actually feel better lifting almost every day of the week

Thanks, it's great isn't it? Not only do I make better progress but mentally I feel I'm moving forward when I lift at least 5 times a week. Lifting is really enjoyable when you hit your stride and the weights move easily.

 

[benaoao]

Right on regarding Greger lol. Bald skinny man. Who wants to listen? I appreciate his research a lot and him+Peat got me to eat a lot more nutritious plants (well, fruits), cut down fat significantly and care about imbalanced, low quality (animal) protein. However Greger is dangerous at this point, since just like the whole vegan community he doesn’t seem to understand hypothyroidism. The irony is, it’s the same for keto folks.

My girlfriend who is pro-vegan but kinda like me eats about 20% of calories from animal foods, shared this to me yesterday:

E-Book

“Not one single argument against veganism”. Well yes there is - thyroid health.

The day I meet ONE strict vegan who proves me wrong regarding thyroid and veganism I’ll reconsider - I’m waiting tho. Even the vegans on steroids that I know have TSH above 2.



Such an embarrassment - his own comment

Hey guys I just want to point of that I made a major mistake in this video. It’s bound to happen with the amount of studies I tend to juggle. Lucky I don’t make more. The 50% less hypothyroidism for vegans is actually HYPERthyroidism. Still very impressive but that needed to be clarified. I wish I could still add notes after. Considered taking the video down but I would hate to upload a repeat.

Yay less hyperthyroidism for all! Very impressive! Sigh.

 

[Aaron]

Right on regarding Greger lol. Bald skinny man. Who wants to listen? I appreciate his research a lot and him+Peat got me to eat a lot more nutritious plants (well, fruits), cut down fat significantly and care about imbalanced, low quality (animal) protein. However Greger is dangerous at this point, since just like the whole vegan community he doesn’t seem to understand hypothyroidism. The irony is, it’s the same for keto folks.

My girlfriend who is pro-vegan but kinda like me eats about 20% of calories from animal foods, shared this to me yesterday:

E-Book

“Not one single argument against veganism”. Well yes there is - thyroid health.

The day I meet ONE strict vegan who proves me wrong regarding thyroid and veganism I’ll reconsider - I’m waiting tho. Even the vegans on steroids that I know have TSH above 2.



Such an embarrassment - his own comment

Yay less hyperthyroidism for all! Very impressive! Sigh.

Definitely, Greger's work has informed me on the myriad health benefits of colorful fruits, but he's probably doing the vegan community more harm than good because now they're further neglecting the sparse sources of protein they already had. Fruit is only good in large amounts if you also have a dense protein source and you exercise.

I don't think vegans realize how easy it is to find a dozen nutrition science studies that support eating a certain food, without taking into context how that food is affecting the body's most important biological processes. It's one of the issues with nutrition science, which has only recently begun evolving. Greger is so interested in convincing people to live a passive plant-based lifestyle it's ridiculous. Flax in quantities over a teaspoon is not only goitrogenic and serotonergic but is essentially the most pointless form of hormone replacement therapy (I've done dozens of hours of research on phytoestrogens and lignans) and he mandates that people eat a tablespoon every day. Although statistically people who eat flax get less heart disease and breast cancer, which are apparently the only factors he needs to consider when recommending a food, it 100% predisposes you to feeling and looking like ***t.

Did I mention Greger has a gut, he's extremely pale, and he's covered in age spots at the ripe age of 45? This is a man who, like many, is functional in many domains and yet dysfunctional and devoid of creativity in so many others. It really shows when he gets asked a question he hasn't made a video about. And like many doctors, he probably feels so liable for the information he provides that he will hold a confirmation bias for veganism for the rest of his life.

My favorite living example is Vegan Gains. Like many vegans, he experienced benefits for the first 2-3 years (he prevented heart disease in his mid-20's! Oh wait...), but it's so apparent his body is falling apart at this point. He claims he farts hundreds of times a day, he has the physique of a midwestern housewife, and he has the most estrogen/serotonin-dominant personality and facial appearance. Poor guy uses "VitalHouse Athlete Shake" as his main protein source, which is loaded with flax and cruciferous vegetable powder and has 15g fat, 43g carbs, 32g protein per serving, which is very much on the high end of protein for vegan options.

/vegan bash lol

 

[Aaron]

Right on regarding Greger lol.

I am actually curious how much protein you take in. I've been sticking to the 0.8g/lb I've taken from studies but I've seen vegan bodybuilders, clearly on roids, only taking 60-70g. I feel eating more protein has been great for me but I still have Dr. Greger's voice in the back of my head telling me the protein will kill me in 10 different ways lol.

 

[benaoao]

Plus the very annoying fact that vegans can’t really be proven wrong on thyroid because:
- TSH doesnt mean much in the first place, it’s only a mere sign of what’s happening in the pituitary
- studies are based on euthyroid having tsh going from .5 all the way to 4.5 which is insane. I’d need to filter them all and look at the ones which consider euthyroid being .5-1 TSH. Good luck...

My protein intake is .7 g/lb, from gelatin, wild caught fish, game, fat free yogurt, pea, lentil, rice. Probably good enough of a blend. Gelatin is incredible.

I have a vegan friend on TRT, who’s adamant about super low cholesterol and how he feels great and everything. Huge Greger fan. His TSH: 2.5. Doesn’t care; studies say it’s euthyroid! Plus when you’re on TRT, you have such a larger room for error, since the steroid hormones are being taken care of. Of course you can build muscle and have high energy!

TRT is a major hack to the system - which is only healthy long term if you stick to 500-700 ng/dl - which can be achieved by anyone naturally. This is what got me off of TRT by the way.

 

[benaoao]

Plus Greger promotes high fiber low protein basically. Has he ever talked in depth of SHBG to begin with? Because this would seem like the perfect diet to indeed increase testosterone, except that you’ve got no free hormones anywhere. Fantastic to slow down the metabolism.

I genuinely thought he is 60+. Damn.

 

[sunraiser]

I'm interested to know if you've completely abandoned the wholegrains at this point. My story is a little like yours (excessive lifting while eating wholegrain only diet (though I ate a lot of meat, too - probably worse as it meant mega strain on digestion), however I do sometimes feel good after chickpeas/lentils or a sourdough rye - I occasionally crave these things.

Have you gone completely off fibrous foods and whole grains at this point - and if not which ones do you eat? I like having case studies of different kinds of success and extremely varied diets! :)

 

[Aaron]

Plus Greger promotes high fiber low protein basically. Has he ever talked in depth of SHBG to begin with? Because this would seem like the perfect diet to indeed increase testosterone, except that you’ve got no free hormones anywhere. Fantastic to slow down the metabolism.

I genuinely thought he is 60+. Damn.

Yeah, he's made a video touting the benefits of vegan diets leading to high SHBG because of the dangers of "powerful circulating steroid hormones." Aka the hormones that give you strength and life. This stuff makes sense when you're living in a vegan echo chamber. When I was eating a high grain diet, my SHBG was through the roof even though total T was 800. Total E was also 142 (even while taking a weak AI called Arimistane) and I had breast pain every day. I believe TSH was around 5. A joke. I didn't make the connection to the plant foods I was eating at all. I'm going to have a series of comprehensive blood panels in the next few months to confirm that my values have improved, but I already know they have based on how I look and feel.

I'm interested to know if you've completely abandoned the wholegrains at this point. My story is a little like yours (excessive lifting while eating wholegrain only diet (though I ate a lot of meat, too - probably worse as it meant mega strain on digestion), however I do sometimes feel good after chickpeas/lentils or a sourdough rye - I occasionally crave these things.

Have you gone completely off fibrous foods and whole grains at this point - and if not which ones do you eat? I like having case studies of different kinds of success and extremely varied diets! :)

I have basically cut out the whole grains for a few months now after a particularly bad experience with extra fiber whole wheat bread (oat fiber = RIP gut), although I wouldn't say no to a nice piece of rye at a restaurant. High quality white sourdough isn't something I would avoid, but lentils on a piece of rye just sounds like a gut bomb to me - no offense. I would still have a bowl of lentil soup and I still enjoy moderate servings of beans a few times a week if I limit my other sources of fiber - bean and cheese burritos or some baked beans with my eggs and bacon. And I still sometimes add a leaf of kale and a raw beet to my smoothies, but not daily. I enjoy the clear-headed, androgenic, high-energy state of getting most of my fiber from fruits and then most of my protein from animal products, both of which I find easy to digest without the irritating bulk of whole grains, nuts and seeds.

What kinds of problems did the whole grains cause for you in the context of heavy lifting? I made some of my best gains last summer while eating tons of peanut butter sandwiches on whole wheat and crap like that, but I was bloated and tired the entire time and had a lot more joint pain (literally have no joint pain now and even my knees have stopped cracking).