Heroin Addiction

JustPeatin

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Aug 14, 2019
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I am new to the Ray Peat way of things but have been reading all I can on Rays website, Dannys YouTube, this forum and Facebook. My boyfriend has been battling opoid addiction since he was 18, he's been to rehab twice and feels that rehab along with the meetings are not helpful for him. They gave him on gabapentin script while he was in rehab for anxiety. I think they just gave that to him so he has something to take. He hasn't been taking it for the last few weeks though and is feeling ok without it. He is currently on suboxone (not in a program) to help withdraw from his latest relapse. I'm looking for some advice on what might work well supplement/steroid wise for him to help curb his cravings once he is off the suboxone. I'm thinking cyprohepadine, advil (as something over the counter) or pregnanolone. Any advice is greatly appreciated. This has been a long battle for the both of us and we're ready for it to be over!
 
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lampofred

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Dr. Peat said high doses of progesterone helped some of his friends who were withdrawing from opioids and alcohol.

I'm sure good diet and thyroid would also help by minimizing the stress signals that would make someone need drugs to feel normal.

Would also recommend aspirin over advil.
 
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JustPeatin

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whoops it must have auto-corrected it. I wanted it to say aspirin not advil!
 

Kingpinguin

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I am new to the Ray Peat way of things but have been reading all I can on Rays website, Dannys YouTube, this forum and Facebook. My boyfriend has been battling opoid addiction since he was 18, he's been to rehab twice and feels that rehab along with the meetings are not helpful for him. They gave him on gabapentin script while he was in rehab for anxiety. I think they just gave that to him so he has something to take. He hasn't been taking it for the last few weeks though and is feeling ok without it. He is currently on suboxone (not in a program) to help withdraw from his latest relapse. I'm looking for some advice on what might work well supplement/steroid wise for him to help curb his cravings once he is off the suboxone. I'm thinking cyprohepadine, advil (as something over the counter) or pregnanolone. Any advice is greatly appreciated. This has been a long battle for the both of us and we're ready for it to be over!

Hi im also new here but been reading the website for years. First diet and light exercise would be the first to get right. Also setting up job or life goals to try and accomplish. Doesnt have to be boring but at least something that makes you enjoy life more or pursue something you enjoy. In my opinion as someone who has done lots of drugs and quit them relapsing and boredom is a big factor. You have to admit to yourself that life with the drugs and without are not the same. But also that life on drugs can obviously be hard aswell. While youre starting drug abuse life is usually a fun roller coaster and like a holiday/vacation. While once ur addicted its just a pain to keep you normal or supress regret and emotions you got from actually feeling bad. Life aint easy for anyone and you might look around and think people around you have a fairly easy life but they dont. They also have financial problems and issues with their families, fiances and friends. Which can be contributors to why our socieitys are so drug riddled. We are not happy. And thats the problem you have to address. Happiness, purpose and meaning of life. Honestly there likely is not a purpose to life. We dont know it. But the important thing is to enjoy it till we die. Sure drugs can help you enjoy it. But you can enjoy it without. Even more from my experience. You want a sense of pride and non regret. Even though they can pressure you and make you feel crap in the end they make you happy and make you feel pride. Pride and integreity is what defines us and what makes you separate from the rest. You create the rules and you set the goals. Anyway supplemental wise I don’t think cyphro rather metergoline/lisuride and progesterone. Magnesium is a good mineral also to stock up on for calmness and happiness.
 
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JustPeatin

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Hi im also new here but been reading the website for years. First diet and light exercise would be the first to get right. Also setting up job or life goals to try and accomplish. Doesnt have to be boring but at least something that makes you enjoy life more or pursue something you enjoy. In my opinion as someone who has done lots of drugs and quit them relapsing and boredom is a big factor. You have to admit to yourself that life with the drugs and without are not the same. But also that life on drugs can obviously be hard aswell. While youre starting drug abuse life is usually a fun roller coaster and like a holiday/vacation. While once ur addicted its just a pain to keep you normal or supress regret and emotions you got from actually feeling bad. Life aint easy for anyone and you might look around and think people around you have a fairly easy life but they dont. They also have financial problems and issues with their families, fiances and friends. Which can be contributors to why our socieitys are so drug riddled. We are not happy. And thats the problem you have to address. Happiness, purpose and meaning of life. Honestly there likely is not a purpose to life. We dont know it. But the important thing is to enjoy it till we die. Sure drugs can help you enjoy it. But you can enjoy it without. Even more from my experience. You want a sense of pride and non regret. Even though they can pressure you and make you feel crap in the end they make you happy and make you feel pride. Pride and integreity is what defines us and what makes you separate from the rest. You create the rules and you set the goals. Anyway supplemental wise I don’t think cyphro rather metergoline/lisuride and progesterone. Magnesium is a good mineral also to stock up on for calmness and happiness.

He's got a lot going on financial wise and that is causing him some stress for sure. I'm also not as patient with him as I wish I could be. There are also people at his job that are using at work. He's a little stuck working where he is right now as he owes his boss some money. I do think his boss would be ok with him leaving as long as he's able to make payments to him. The work is just really easy for what he makes. He knows he'd be better off if he worked elsewhere so hopefully we can find something better soon. I've been helping him as much as I can but he's put me in a tough financial spot as well and seeing him relapse over and over kills me. He's in a better position now than when he was when we first started dating, but its been a slow process with a lot of detours to get him where he needs to be. I know he wants to be done with all this, but the cravings are really intense and hard to ignore. He's got so much potential and I think he tends to focus on what he can't do instead of what he can. He's one of the most amazing people I've ever met when hes sober. Hes totally different when he's using. Thank you for the advice!
 

Blossom

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I highly recommend he get completely away from any contact with others who are using for the best chance of beating this addiction. My family member had to leave his job to break his addiction (not the same addiction). It was still hard but it helped to not have it in his face nearly everyday.
 
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JustPeatin

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I totally agree and I've been telling him that for awhile now. He's just so stubborn. His boss is like a father to him and has given him a lot of time off to try to get a hold on his addiction. But even he is at wits end with all this. As bad as it sounds I almost want him to get fired so he has to find another place to work. The other thing that's making this harder is he has his dealers numbers memorized. So even if we delete them and block them he knows the numbers. His dealers will also periodically call to see if 1. hes alive and 2. if needs anything. How all this stuff works is really messed up and sad. We are working on getting him a new phone number so that will solve them calling him. He just needs to fight the urge to call them and use.
 

lampofred

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Not sure if you've seen this, but here's another thread on recovering from opioids and apparently OP made great progress with his friend following RP principles: Opioid Addicition Recovery Plan
 

Blossom

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I totally agree and I've been telling him that for awhile now. He's just so stubborn. His boss is like a father to him and has given him a lot of time off to try to get a hold on his addiction. But even he is at wits end with all this. As bad as it sounds I almost want him to get fired so he has to find another place to work. The other thing that's making this harder is he has his dealers numbers memorized. So even if we delete them and block them he knows the numbers. His dealers will also periodically call to see if 1. hes alive and 2. if needs anything. How all this stuff works is really messed up and sad. We are working on getting him a new phone number so that will solve them calling him. He just needs to fight the urge to call them and use.
I’d even consider moving to a new location far enough away that it’s not practical to see people he used with or bought the drugs from. I know it sounds drastic but there really needs to be as little reminders as possible and it needs to be exceedingly difficult to find it again. Do the best you can of course. We moved to a new city, changed jobs and got new phone numbers. He agreed to give me access to all his accounts and gps track him so I could randomly check on his sobriety to help keep him honest. I really didn’t want to do all that- and we are still recovering from it all 2.5 years later- but I did it out of love and to save his life.
 

tara

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I highly recommend he get completely away from any contact with others who are using for the best chance of beating this addiction.
I’d even consider moving to a new location far enough away that it’s not practical to see people he used with or bought the drugs from. I know it sounds drastic but there really needs to be as little reminders as possible and it needs to be exceedingly difficult to find it again. Do the best you can of course.
+1
I totally agree and I've been telling him that for awhile now. He's just so stubborn.
Also remember to look after yourself well.
You will have to figure out your own boundaries - what you want in your life, what support you can offer, what you need from him in order for you stick with him, what you will do if he doesn't meet that, timeframes, what other support you need to take care of yourself and hold to such boundaries - you can't rely on him for this.
It's easy for people around to get sucked into difficulties by addictions.
I'd seriously consider getting support for yourself by going to AlAnon (if that's the right one for family/close people of people struggling with addictions?).
 

Frankdee20

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The popular treatment options are now Buprenorphine and long acting Naltrexone injectable once per month. The advantages of buprenorphine over methadone are a few. There is a limit to how much agonism buprenorphine has on the Mu Receptor (responsible for the high). Unlike methadone, one can only get so high from buprenorphine (it’s also a mixed antagonist). This makes it less likely to be abused and a bit safer regarding overdose potential. The Naltrexone only approach blocks opiate receptors (but this works better for Alcohol abuse) and over time, unregulates those receptors and builds the endorphin system back up.
 
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JustPeatin

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I’d even consider moving to a new location far enough away that it’s not practical to see people he used with or bought the drugs from. I know it sounds drastic but there really needs to be as little reminders as possible and it needs to be exceedingly difficult to find it again. Do the best you can of course. We moved to a new city, changed jobs and got new phone numbers. He agreed to give me access to all his accounts and gps track him so I could randomly check on his sobriety to help keep him honest. I really didn’t want to do all that- and we are still recovering from it all 2.5 years later- but I did it out of love and to save his life.

We want to move out of state but I need to finish college first. I only have 2 semesters to go. He just gave his manager info to have his paychecks deposited into my account so I can help him manage his money and hold him accountable. He doesn’t have a car so that helps a lot as well. I don’t like being all up in his business but both he and I know he needs to take these steps to get better.
 
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JustPeatin

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+1

Also remember to look after yourself well.
You will have to figure out your own boundaries - what you want in your life, what support you can offer, what you need from him in order for you stick with him, what you will do if he doesn't meet that, timeframes, what other support you need to take care of yourself and hold to such boundaries - you can't rely on him for this.
It's easy for people around to get sucked into difficulties by addictions.
I'd seriously consider getting support for yourself by going to AlAnon (if that's the right one for family/close people of people struggling with addictions?).

Yes, we have had that convo. He knows I need him to have this under control for the most part by the time I get back to school (which is in 3 weeks). I delt with him using most of my first year of my program and my concentration wasn’t there at school. I was constantly worried about him and stressed out. I refuse to do that to myself again. I love him but my schooling and health is more important. I have been to Narnon meetings (alanon for family of narcotic addicts) they weren’t for me. When I start school I plan on talking to a counselor to just have someone that will listen.
 
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JustPeatin

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The popular treatment options are now Buprenorphine and long acting Naltrexone injectable once per month. The advantages of buprenorphine over methadone are a few. There is a limit to how much agonism buprenorphine has on the Mu Receptor (responsible for the high). Unlike methadone, one can only get so high from buprenorphine (it’s also a mixed antagonist). This makes it less likely to be abused and a bit safer regarding overdose potential. The Naltrexone only approach blocks opiate receptors (but this works better for Alcohol abuse) and over time, unregulates those receptors and builds the endorphin system back up.

Thank you! I’ll look into these!
 

Sativa

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Some naturally applicable biological approaches might allow for a holistic & sustainable 'anti-addiction' effect. (inspired by novel & known pharmacological approaches)

I feel that with a Peat™ inspired twist...a highligh on core metabolic function... combined with a sustainable, proactive & strategic pharmacological approach would be quite effective.

Jumping right in... Using OTC substances, with reported properties conclusive to 'resetting brain addiction pathways' etc. Ketamine & Memantine have such a property. As do more OTC substances - eg Apigenin (parsley, german chamomile), Garlic, Agmatine, Magnesium, Uridine, Iboga (also involves a scenario of potent confronting, acknowledgement & resolution of 'deep inner discords' etc. can require/aid-develop strong 'inner' resilience!).

That's just one group, mainly centered around neurogenesis & glutamate system 'renewal'. Other groups target opiod resetting, dopamine rebalancing & another significant player in metabolic function - the endocannabinoid system.

An effective approach is to strategically target key synergistic biological areas ensuring a balanced 'holistic' recalibration & resetting of the neuronal networks & patterning etc.

Ultimately, the strategy remains adaptive to the context... (opioid habituation is different to amphetamine or Adderall, for example)

Obviously, the prime Peat strategies: lower cortisol, prolactin, estrogen, histamine, serotonin triggers, etc.

(OTC Sodium Salicylate is a good novel one btw, easy diy project!)

(I'll post a link to more info when i find my old post on it...)
 
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JustPeatin

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Some naturally applicable biological approaches might allow for a holistic & sustainable 'anti-addiction' effect. (inspired by novel & known pharmacological approaches)

I feel that with a Peat™ inspired twist...a highligh on core metabolic function... combined with a sustainable, proactive & strategic pharmacological approach would be quite effective.

Jumping right in... Using OTC substances, with reported properties conclusive to 'resetting brain addiction pathways' etc. Ketamine & Memantine have such a property. As do more OTC substances - eg Apigenin (parsley, german chamomile), Garlic, Agmatine, Magnesium, Uridine, Iboga (also involves a scenario of potent confronting, acknowledgement & resolution of 'deep inner discords' etc. can require/aid-develop strong 'inner' resilience!).

That's just one group, mainly centered around neurogenesis & glutamate system 'renewal'. Other groups target opiod resetting, dopamine rebalancing & another significant player in metabolic function - the endocannabinoid system.

An effective approach is to strategically target key synergistic biological areas ensuring a balanced 'holistic' recalibration & resetting of the neuronal networks & patterning etc.

Ultimately, the strategy remains adaptive to the context... (opioid habituation is different to amphetamine or Adderall, for example)

Obviously, the prime Peat strategies: lower cortisol, prolactin, estrogen, histamine, serotonin triggers, etc.

(OTC Sodium Salicylate is a good novel one btw, easy diy project!)

(I'll post a link to more info when i find my old post on it...)

Thank you for the info! I have looked into iboga just not sure how I would go about obtaining it. I’d love to read the other info as well!
 

Sativa

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Iboga combines the effects of some of the other listed substances, in a unique way, (and no doubt with extra elements) so whilst iboga might be hard to source (considered illegal in some places) it's deffo a good valid tool (& a potent plant energy, i treat them all with respect like anyone who respects nature would).

Iboga is used world-wide for resolving 'addictions' (it eloquently target's the physical & emotional/mental aspects!)

Frankincense oil is worth looking into as an adjunct therapy, since it contributes useful therapeutic & calming effects.

CBD, Milk thistle, Black seed (Nigela sativa), cloves (Eugenol) & Myrrh all have pro-opioid effects, which can allow reduction of the heroin dose.

Menthol activates the 'kappa' opioid 'receptor', which might feel unpleasant but helps to balance the opioid & dopamine system (since kappa activation upregulates the D2 dopamine 'receptor').

Iboga works partly via glutamate & opioid systems... as a glutamate 'NMDA antagonist', of which magnesium is the bodies #1 choice for this! Agmatine also shares this property, + its OTC and definitely has valuable properties relevant for brain pattern resetting and regeneration (agmatine triggers neurogenesis!)

There's lots of Reddit threads about Agmatine. Here's my RP forum thread on Agmatine... Agmatine - A 'Peaty' Substance With Potential?
 
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Rational Recovery | Welcome to Rational Recovery read this. Manage to understand and master this. Then read this quietly to your boyfriend when he is sleeping. After a couple of times you can make him familiar with this technique, the moment he hears about it from you he will connect dots in his brain.
 

LLight

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Hello JustPeatin,

Not sure it has the potential to help your partner even a little, but nonetheless I thought it could be interesting to you: Intermittent drinking, oxytocin and human health. - PubMed - NCBI
Recent research shows that the homeostatic disturbances leading to the "thirst feeling" not only activate specific substances regulating water and mineral household, but also the "trust and love" hormone oxytocin, while decreasing the production of the typical stress hormone cortisol. People using drugs, seem to be in search for oxytocin, as evidenced in studies with individuals on drugs such as ecstasy and gamma-hydroxybyturate.

Our hypothesis; regulating drinking behaviour through intermittent bulk drinking could increase oxytocin signalling, recover human trust and increase health by down-regulation of stress axis activity and inflammatory activity of the immune system. Intermittent bulk drinking should be defined as water (including tea and coffee) drinking up to a feeling of satiety and regulated by a mild feeling of thirst. This would mean that people would not drink less quantity but less frequently and that's how all animals, but also human newborns behave.
 

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