Help w/ Preparation and Dosage of DHT

[Dehdly]

Hello all,

I need some help with the preparation and dosage of the DHT powder I have just received from a Chinese seller for transdermal application.

I'm to understand that the solubility of DHT in DMSO is 58mg/ml meaning a 10ml dropper bottle of pure DMSO could dissolve 580mg. However i'm unsure if using pure DMSO is wise or if I should also use ethanol (of course the space ethanol takes up would impact the amount of DHT I could dose per drop as less could be dissolved in a smaller amount of DMSO). Would anyone advise a given ratio that would be efficient or preferred?

I'm already injecting HCG every third day to retain testosterone levels so I don't really want to pin DHT too.

Furthermore, i'm also taking TyroMix alongside this and have absolutely no idea what my dosage should be, I was thinking of starting slow as i've heard thyroid hormones can be difficult to dose. Starting at 1 drop or 2 i'm thinking is safe, any suggestions here too?

Thanks.

 

[Jayvee]

My personal experience (for what its worth)

I would dissolve DHT in olive oil and take it orally and use it in weekly cycles in smaller doses to prevent any shutdown.

I wouldn't use HCG, I had good experiences with it but I think the same can be achieved with safer substances that stimulate LH rather than mimic. If you did DHT in lower doses then you might not need something as potent or at all.

I would start smaller than 1 drop of tyromix. I think, water it down and very gradually ease up to 1 drop measuring pulse and tempreture. In my opinion 1 drop can be too much for some (including me).

Are you doing this protocol because of PFS by any chance?

 

[Dehdly]

My personal experience (for what its worth)

I would dissolve DHT in olive oil and take it orally and use it in weekly cycles in smaller doses to prevent any shutdown.

I wouldn't use HCG, I had good experiences with it but I think the same can be achieved with safer substances that stimulate LH rather than mimic. If you did DHT in lower doses then you might not need something as potent or at all.

I would start smaller than 1 drop of tyromix. I think, water it down and very gradually ease up to 1 drop measuring pulse and tempreture. In my opinion 1 drop can be too much for some (including me).

Are you doing this protocol because of PFS by any chance?

Hi Jayvee,

Thanks for your advice, yes I am using DHT for PFS.

The problem is, I need to take quite high doses of DHT to desensitise receptors and to reset thyroid receptor B functionality (what ChemHead theorises is the cause of PFS).

He’s advised to take a dose of about 25mg of DHT per day and as I’m using transdermal application he says to apply to the scrotal skin around 4 times a day (which is why olive oil would be particularly uncomfortable). What is the solubility of DHT in olive oil, maybe the concentration obtained is greater?

I’ve just looked back and it seems you commented on the thread ‘How Bad is Finasteride’ too. Look back at that thread to see my responses for context.

Cheers

 

[ChemHead]

The problem is, I need to take quite high doses of DHT to desensitise receptors and to reset thyroid receptor B functionality (what ChemHead theorises is the cause of PFS).

Finasteride causes androgen receptor overexpression. So, the high sustained dose is to lower androgen receptor expression and encourage the reestablishment of 5a-reductase expression. However, DHT also promotes the expression of thyroid receptor beta and thyroid hormone function is involved in the expression of 5a-reductase. You will not avoid shut down with really any steroid. If you don't use enough, you just might not notice the small degree to which your hpta function is being suppressed.

 

[Jayvee]

I have mild PFS now after playing around with different substances. In my experience DHT has only ever given me cognitive benefits and base testosterone is what I found best.

I have switched between the T and DHT in smaller doses (not really knowing exactly what I'm doing but trying my best to avoid 'shutdown'). In doing this though I have had my best results 5mg of DHT and 1-2mg of test base for a week or so and then taking a break.

With regards to Thyroid, I think a lot of sufferers of PFS are likely to have high RT3 (due to essentially being in a stressed state in more ways than one). I would maybe try experimenting with a T3 only approach at smaller doses. I cant stress it enough with thyroid... start small and work up! You can push the gas peddle too much very easily with PFS and with all 'pro metabolic' compounds.

 

[Dehdly]

Finasteride causes androgen receptor overexpression. So, the high sustained dose is to lower androgen receptor expression and encourage the reestablishment of 5a-reductase expression. However, DHT also promotes the expression of thyroid receptor beta and thyroid hormone function is involved in the expression of 5a-reductase. You will not avoid shut down with really any steroid. If you don't use enough, you just might not notice the small degree to which your hpta function is being suppressed.

So what you’re saying is, if I don’t use a high enough dosage (let’s say 25mg per day), then I’m not going to be able to see the PFS reversal that you originally theorised?

Another user mentioned using Benzl alcohol (300mg/ml solubility) but using DMSO with this would go into the blood! He also mentioned MCT oil but didn’t say how this was different or how it would absorb etc etc.

I seriously just need somebody that knows about this stuff to say .. dissolve it in this .. and apply it here. My knowledge on this is so limited and there are no web resources on the internet that give you a breakdown of solvents and application routes/risks etc.

 

[ChemHead]

So what you’re saying is, if I don’t use a high enough dosage (let’s say 25mg per day), then I’m not going to be able to see the PFS reversal that you originally theorised?

Yes. The goal is to hopefully replicate the the concentration of DHT at the cellular level since you don't have 5AR expression. Unfortunately, in order to do this, you have to flood the body with high amounts of DHT because the source is exogenous rather than originating within the cells. It's completely backwards from normal physiology. In a properly functioning body, you would be making DHT in high concentrations intracellularly in the tissues it's needed. When using a steroid exogenously, you are relying on its diffusion through out the body in extracellular space and eventual diffusion into the cell, which will never be as potent or concentrated as having the machinery inside the cell making it.

Unless you have some kind of reaction or irritation to applying DMSO to the skin, I would just dissolve it in that. Ethanol also works. I'm not sure that you're going to get exactly what you're looking for as far as being able to apply tiny drops and get enough DHT. More carrier solvent is probably also better in terms of penetration through the skin. If you don't have enough, I would imagine there's probably a higher chance of the DHT staying closer to the surface of the skin.

 

[Dehdly]

Yes. The goal is to hopefully replicate the the concentration of DHT at the cellular level since you don't have 5AR expression. Unfortunately, in order to do this, you have to flood the body with high amounts of DHT because the source is exogenous rather than originating within the cells. It's completely backwards from normal physiology. In a properly functioning body, you would be making DHT in high concentrations intracellularly in the tissues it's needed. When using a steroid exogenously, you are relying on its diffusion through out the body in extracellular space and eventual diffusion into the cell, which will never be as potent or concentrated as having the machinery inside the cell making it.

Unless you have some kind of reaction or irritation to applying DMSO to the skin, I would just dissolve it in that. Ethanol also works. I'm not sure that you're going to get exactly what you're looking for as far as being able to apply tiny drops and get enough DHT. More carrier solvent is probably also better in terms of penetration through the skin. If you don't have enough, I would imagine there's probably a higher chance of the DHT staying closer to the surface of the skin.

What do you mean when you say ‘I’m not sure that you’re going to get exactly what you’re looking for as far as being able to apply tiny drops and get enough DHT’ .. how else would you apply transdermally?

What would be the exact method you would use if you were in my position? Would you pin intramuscular?

 

[ChemHead]

What do you mean when you say ‘I’m not sure that you’re going to get exactly what you’re looking for as far as being able to apply tiny drops and get enough DHT’ .. how else would you apply transdermally?

What would be the exact method you would use if you were in my position? Would you pin intramuscular?

No, what I meant was that it seems like, iirc, you were trying to dissolve as much DHT as possible in as little solvent as possible so that you would only need to apply some small number of drops daily. I only meant to say that application is going to be messier than you would prefer it to be... Or more frequent application.

You don't have to pin it, though. Transdermal works just fine. Unless, of course, you want to pin it. That works ok too.

 

[Nebula]

Unfortunately, in order to do this, you have to flood the body with high amounts of DHT because the source is exogenous rather than originating within the cells.

How much do you think is necessary? I’ve been trying just 1mg of DHT dissolved per drop of DMSO at a time and haven’t noticed anything yet.

 

[Dehdly]

No, what I meant was that it seems like, iirc, you were trying to dissolve as much DHT as possible in as little solvent as possible so that you would only need to apply some small number of drops daily. I only meant to say that application is going to be messier than you would prefer it to be... Or more frequent application.

You don't have to pin it, though. Transdermal works just fine. Unless, of course, you want to pin it. That works ok too.

Ok I understand, thanks for clarifying.

When using pure DMSO, is it still true that only 30-40% will get through? Or actually would it be closer to 80-90% given DMSO’s penetrative attribute.

Finally, this is my stack moving forwards.

DHT: (however many drops to achieve 25mg per day) - at 30/40% penetration this looks to be around 25 drops a day
HCG: 500IU every third day
TyroMix (T4/T3): 1 drop a day

Should I be flooding my body with T4/T3 too? (I couldn’t just get T4)

 

[Dehdly]

How much do you think is necessary? I’ve been trying just 1mg of DHT dissolved per drop of DMSO at a time and haven’t noticed anything yet.

He mentions between 25-50mg which transdermally kinda means 65-130mg a day as only 30-40% goes systemic

 

[ChemHead]

He mentions between 25-50mg which transdermally kinda means 65-130mg a day as only 30-40% goes systemic

This. I took about a gram over the span of a week. I would assume 30-40% absorption transdermally. However, I followed each application by massaging DMSO over top of the DHT hydrogel, so it's possible that I got better absorption. But just assume that you need to use a gram/week. If you're going to inject it, maybe start with 150-200 mg/week.

 

[Nebula]

I did 1 mg DHT in DMSO rubbed into forearms every 3-4 hours today and I’m feeling really warm now after a larger dinner. While larger doses recently just made me cold and irritated. So I might keep this up for awhile and see how it effects me.

 

[Jayvee]

Ok I understand, thanks for clarifying.

When using pure DMSO, is it still true that only 30-40% will get through? Or actually would it be closer to 80-90% given DMSO’s penetrative attribute.

Finally, this is my stack moving forwards.

DHT: (however many drops to achieve 25mg per day) - at 30/40% penetration this looks to be around 25 drops a day
HCG: 500IU every third day
TyroMix (T4/T3): 1 drop a day

Should I be flooding my body with T4/T3 too? (I couldn’t just get T4)

I would at least put the T4/T3 on hold and start the DHT first. Part of the problem with thyroid for PFS (I believe) is from not being able to utilise it properly hence the higher RT3 levels often seen in PFS (anecdotally speaking). From someone who tried doing the whole 'flood the system' approach I would hold off on the thyroid or at least start VERY slowly otherwise your body will have a weird stress reaction. Start with one thing at a time. That way you will be able to work out what does and doesnt work easier.

 

[Dehdly]

I mean ..

This. I took about a gram over the span of a week. I would assume 30-40% absorption transdermally. However, I followed each application by massaging DMSO over top of the DHT hydrogel, so it's possible that I got better absorption. But just assume that you need to use a gram/week. If you're going to inject it, maybe start with 150-200 mg/week.

I mean, I’m literally straight dissolving the stuff in pure DMSO. Surely I’m getting the best transdermal absorption possible.

Also when talking about the IdeaLabs products, Haidut said you get close to 100% absorption with DMSO - why is that not the case with DHT?

 

[Dehdly]

I would at least put the T4/T3 on hold and start the DHT first. Part of the problem with thyroid for PFS (I believe) is from not being able to utilise it properly hence the higher RT3 levels often seen in PFS (anecdotally speaking). From someone who tried doing the whole 'flood the system' approach I would hold off on the thyroid or at least start VERY slowly otherwise your body will have a weird stress reaction. Start with one thing at a time. That way you will be able to work out what does and doesnt work easier.

I think you’re right, I’m laying off the thyroid for now.

 

[ChemHead]

I mean ..

I mean, I’m literally straight dissolving the stuff in pure DMSO. Surely I’m getting the best transdermal absorption possible.

Also when talking about the IdeaLabs products, Haidut said you get close to 100% absorption with DMSO - why is that not the case with DHT?

He could be right, but I don't have any data on that, so I'm assuming the worst case.

 

[Dehdly]

He could be right, but I don't have any data on that, so I'm assuming the worst case.

I’m thinking of injecting using sterile oil to guarantee dosage, do you know the solubility for DHT in sterile oil?

Is it the same process as with bacteriostatic water?

Could I just mix in a small dropper bottle and extract with an insulin needle (29G) or do I need one of those special bottles you can pierce multiple times to keep contamination out?

 

[ChemHead]

More complex process for injection. You would need to get some type of oil for injection that contains a small percentage of benzyl alcohol. If you can't find a source of this that is already sterile, you would need to push the dissolved solution of oil/DHT through a 0.2 micron filter into a sterile vial. You would also need to use at least a 25 ga needle. An insulin needle is too small for viscous oil.