Help Understanding Red Light Wavelengths

[KurtisL]

Hi I am looking to get into red light therapy after reading all the proposed benefits however I am unsure about what device to get.

My main question is about what wavelengths to look for.. I see a lot of LED devices emitting a 650~ and a 850nm~ wavelength, does this mean they only emit light in 650 and 850nm wavelengths or does that include the 650-850nm spectrum between them? I am weary about the idea of 'dosing' single wavelengths as it's not something that would happen with natural sunlight...

Thanks

 

[Adrenaline]

Same here

 

[bcopeland]

The light source matters. Lasers will provide a single wavelength whereas LED devices will have more of a spectrum. So a 650nm laser will put out exactly 650nm but a 650nm LED will put out "mostly" 650nm but will bleed into just a little bit of the higher and lower spectrum... not all the way to 850 mind you just about 10nm up or down (that is a guesstimation).

Now you could purchase an LED light that has multiple wavelengths from the deep orange, red, and deep red spectrums such as lifegivingstore's LGS1 or LGS3 which give 610 - 670 or 620 - 670 respectively. I think Redlightman has the same or similar devices. Those devices will have something like 4 x 610nm LEDs, 4 x 630nm LEDs, and 4 x 670nm LEDs in one device. And of course they have ones that contain 660nm and 850nm in one device as well.

If the device contains 6 x 660nm LEDs and 6 x 850nm LEDs then it is not going to have the red light spectrum in between (670-840nm).

You can read about what the different wavelengths do, although the science is not 100% clear at this point but the general thought is that the visible dark orange, red, and dark red light is for fairly surface level penetration such as hair growth, superficial skin healing, collagen production in the skin, etc. While the infrared 750, 850, and higher are supposedly better at penetrating further into the body's tissues for joints.

Having said that the dose for deep penetration to joints, organs, etc. is darn near impossible to figure out as there are so many variables to consider when trying to figure out the light being absorbed by the body's tissues, hydration levels, output of the device, etc.

Personally I stick with the visible red spectrum 610 - 670nm and do mostly surface level treatment as it is easier (not easy) to figure out how long to use the device based upon the power of the device and distance from the body (LED as laser doesn't matter as much). Redlightman has an easy to find article that explains how to figure out how long to use the device based upon the the output power, distance you hold it from your body, and the desired results. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links but you will find it.

I'm rambling but it is way early in the morning for me so... yeah.

If I were me (and I am) I would get an LED device that has multiple "visible" red light such as the LSG1 or LSG3 and would not combine visible red and infrared spectrums in one device.

Cheers

 

[retroactive]

I'm using simple heat lamps that provide a broadband source including the visible and IR portions. One of my heat lamps has an orange filtering coating on it to filter out the blue and green wavelengths of the visible spectrum. With two lamps I can basically cover 80/90% of my body for a session. I also have a generic LED lamp that has two wavelengths (660 and 830 nm i believe). This one is lower powered but has a nice dark red hue. Personally i prefer the heat lamps best of all. All of these are cheap and easily available online. Michael Hamblin from Harvard is a good source of info.

 

[KurtisL]

The light source matters. Lasers will provide a single wavelength whereas LED devices will have more of a spectrum. So a 650nm laser will put out exactly 650nm but a 650nm LED will put out "mostly" 650nm but will bleed into just a little bit of the higher and lower spectrum... not all the way to 850 mind you just about 10nm up or down (that is a guesstimation).

Now you could purchase an LED light that has multiple wavelengths from the deep orange, red, and deep red spectrums such as lifegivingstore's LGS1 or LGS3 which give 610 - 670 or 620 - 670 respectively. I think Redlightman has the same or similar devices. Those devices will have something like 4 x 610nm LEDs, 4 x 630nm LEDs, and 4 x 670nm LEDs in one device. And of course they have ones that contain 660nm and 850nm in one device as well.

If the device contains 6 x 660nm LEDs and 6 x 850nm LEDs then it is not going to have the red light spectrum in between (670-840nm).

You can read about what the different wavelengths do, although the science is not 100% clear at this point but the general thought is that the visible dark orange, red, and dark red light is for fairly surface level penetration such as hair growth, superficial skin healing, collagen production in the skin, etc. While the infrared 750, 850, and higher are supposedly better at penetrating further into the body's tissues for joints.

Having said that the dose for deep penetration to joints, organs, etc. is darn near impossible to figure out as there are so many variables to consider when trying to figure out the light being absorbed by the body's tissues, hydration levels, output of the device, etc.

Personally I stick with the visible red spectrum 610 - 670nm and do mostly surface level treatment as it is easier (not easy) to figure out how long to use the device based upon the power of the device and distance from the body (LED as laser doesn't matter as much). Redlightman has an easy to find article that explains how to figure out how long to use the device based upon the the output power, distance you hold it from your body, and the desired results. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links but you will find it.

I'm rambling but it is way early in the morning for me so... yeah.

If I were me (and I am) I would get an LED device that has multiple "visible" red light such as the LSG1 or LSG3 and would not combine visible red and infrared spectrums in one device.

Cheers

Thank you, very informative stuff, I went and brought a device with 660 and 850nm wavelengths and will have to do some personal experimentation to figure out the right dosage for me

I'm using simple heat lamps that provide a broadband source including the visible and IR portions. One of my heat lamps has an orange filtering coating on it to filter out the blue and green wavelengths of the visible spectrum. With two lamps I can basically cover 80/90% of my body for a session. I also have a generic LED lamp that has two wavelengths (660 and 830 nm i believe). This one is lower powered but has a nice dark red hue. Personally i prefer the heat lamps best of all. All of these are cheap and easily available online. Michael Hamblin from Harvard is a good source of info.

This is a good idea, I may end up purchasing something similar for general/ambient lights and use my LED device for more targeted applications

 

[Evolutionarily]

Something the LED targeted wavelength promoters state is that heat subtracts and/or interferes with the benefits of Photobiomodulation. Of course they are biased to say this if cheap high-watt Incandescent Bulbs provide most or all (or more!) benefits than their fancy expensive red LED panels.

The argument is complex but I think basically boils down to as the cell heats up the benefits of the red light diminish, so the targeted wavelength LED approach gives us the light spectrum without the heat which allows a greater effect.