Help me figure out why ecigs cause major leg cramps?

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by pepsi, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. pepsi

    pepsi Member

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    I smoke the electronic cigarette, I do not get any flavorings, so the ecig contains propylene glycol and nicotine.
    My job is very physical, I am on my feet all day moving. On the days I work, I get extreme cramps in my leg muscles.
    When I smoked regular cigarettes, this never happened.
    I thought maybe I was getting too much nicotine, so I got the ejuice with the lowest nicotine possible, 6mg. My legs still feel the same, so I am
    pretty sure it is not the nicotine, although I do know it is vasoconstrictive, but I am sure I am getting less nicotine than with regular cigarettes.
    Does anyone know what propylene glycol does in the body? I heard it changes into lactic acid?
    Sometimes at work, I will feel pressure in my eyes, like blood is building up in there or something.
    I have been smoking ecigs for 3 years now and the sides of my thighs are getting spider viens, I am pretty sure this has
    to do with the leg cramps and ecigs. Does anyone know what causes spider veins?

    The other day when I got home, I almost couldnt cook dinner, it felt like my legs were going to fall off.
    The next day, I decided to buy a pack of cigarettes in the morning and smoke that on my breaks at work, wow what
    a difference, my legs were a little cramped but not as bad.
    Other than that, I eat a Peat diet.
    Thank you.
     
  2. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I do not have the exact answer you are looking for but I will tell you a few things I do know that may help you decide how to proceed. The ecigs are thought of as benign due to the fact that they do not contain smoke. The main issue imo is that they are not regulated like the other forms of nicotine including cigarettes. You don't really know what you are getting so to speak. I would also guess that the propylene glycol stays in the bloodstream longer by inhaling it as opposed to swollowing it in say a pill. I think the patch might be the most reliable and safest way to get nicotine if you need it because it is standardized and must contain what the label claims. I'm guessing carbon monoxide is probably not optimal to inhale. In an effort to think more like Peat I have reasoned that if preventativly it is good to avoid lactic acid containing foods it is probably wise to avoid carbon monoxide containing air. I would just be guessing but the vein issue could be irritation from the propylene glycol in your bloodstream sort of like an estrogenic reaction. This is pure speculation.
     
  3. OP
    pepsi

    pepsi Member

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    Yes, Ray Peat says to avoid lactic acid producing foods. I have heard propylene glycol turns into lactic acid in the body. So I probably
    have huge quantities of it flowing in my blood.

    Why does lactic acid do in the body that is bad?
     
  4. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    In large amounts it causes lactic acidosis which is basically acidified blood/tissues. Ray has said that the type of lacid acid produced by bacteria is more toxic than the type produced by our own bodies I believe, I'm not sure how that would relate to the propylene glycol induced lactic acid. Acidosis from carbon dioxide is much different. If it were me I would put on a nicotine patch and incorporate the paper bag breathing into my life, oh wait that is me! I use the patch and have no complaints. Every 7mg of nicotine in the patch is equal to 5 cigarettes FYI. Good Luck.
     
  5. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I think it will clear easily. I got to thinking further and the lactic acid is just making you cramp just like excessive exercise induced lactic acid would. You may just have a little of both going on with the work you do.
     
  6. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    I remember reading that ecig do not make carbon monoxide.
    I am not sure how much lactic acid is produced from ecigs to cause
    serious health issues. One way lactic acid causes problem is by sending stress signal.
    There is a Wiki quote on toxicity of Propylene glycol.

    Propionaldehyde could a cause of your problem. Did you have this problem when you started
    smoking ecigs 3 years ago or did it happen recently?
    RP mentioned that high estrogen and low progesterone causes spider veins.
    Increasing alkaline mineral intake, and bag breathing can help with leg cramps.
    Maintaining a good blood sugar level is helpful against all kind of stress.
    You can use cronometer to make sure you are getting all the required vitamins and minerals
    Here is a RP quote on how hypothyroidism leads to cramps and nerve-muscle tension.
    There is an Interesting recommendation from one of the article(18) cited in wiki quote.
     
  7. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    The carbon monoxide was in reference to the real tobacco cigarettes only just for clarification purposes.
     
  8. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    @Blossom
    Thanks for the clarification.

    @Christina
    RP mentioned all kind of smoking is Estrogenic.
    I am wondering if tobacco tea is a possible alternative to
    smoking regular cigarette or propylene glycol in E-cigs.
    I have never heard of anyone drinking tobacco tea.
    It is also possible that the amount of propylene glycol is not a big issue
    and Nicotine is the trigger, absorption rate of
    nicotine from regular cigarette is possibly different than E-cigs.
    I thought they finally did a good job inventing E-cig
    and removing all the bad stuff of cigarette smoking .
    Nicotine is an Aromatase inhibitor ( anti-estrogen)
    with other health benefits.

     
  9. extremecheddar

    extremecheddar Member

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  10. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I do think the ecigs are still better than regular cigarettes. I just think they leave a lot to be desired. If I'm personally going.to concern myself with potential problematic substances in my food, drink and supplements am going to apply that same standard to nicotine replacement. That's just me. I have had some ecigs in the past that worked well and different brands that were horrible and made me sick. I do feel concern over if we are really getting what we pay for and if full disclosure is always made about the grade of ingredients. I'm sure many companies would opt for the cheapest propylene glycol as opposed to USP grade. It's still transdermal delivery and enters the bloodstream through the mucous membranes. The nicotine inhaler seems somewhat better but that can't be bought over the counter in the U.S. Until I break this nicotine pattern in my life it is important to me that I have a safe and most reliable product that does the least amount of harm.
     
  11. SQu

    SQu Member

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    I'm not a smoker but recently experimented with nicotine gum. I chewed half a piece of the lowest strength, I think it was equal to about 1/12 a cigarette. I found it immediately very calming and decided to keep it on hand for days when I'm very stressed and all estrogen lowering efforts aren't working. Like this I didn't find it addictive - but oddly enough it did give me a bit of smokers cough in the morning! Proof that it's not just the smoke. For that reason I didn't continue the experiment. But otherwise it seemed like a promising route - however I'm sure you have already considered it.
     
  12. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Interestingly one piece of 2mg gum is equal to about 1/2 of a cigarette and a 4mg piece is about the same as 1 full cigarette. That is what is taught in conventional medicine anyway. I always found the gum upsetting to my stomach personally but it is an option for many people. I'm pretty sure that despite my best efforts I did swallow some of the juices from the gum and that lead to the stomach upset. That's an excellent idea sueq, to try the gum for your estrogen issue, that is creativity and thinking outside the box at its finest!
     
  13. SQu

    SQu Member

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    Thanks! It's another reason I enjoy RP 's articles - seeing the connections he finds between seemingly unrelated issues.
     
  14. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Ray Peat is truly amazing, studying his work helped me figure out how to save my life! I love seeing how so many people's lives are touched and improved by his insights. I may not be perfect, but I'm happy, healthy, whole and it just keeps getting better. Isn't it nice to be moving in a positive direction.
     
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