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Sefton10

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For context, she has just turned 70 and has had severe rheumatoid arthritis for 30 years. Recently she has been feeling like she has less and less energy, constantly tired and dizzy spells. Finally she is open to exploring the impact of metabolism/bioenergetics so I got her Kate Deering’s book as an intro to the main ideas around nutrition and she is implementing bits slowly.

Her TSH is very high, vitamin D very low, ferritin very low. C-reactive protein is off the scale. Are there any other aspects of the panel that are worrying or warrant specific focus?

To me it looks like severe hypothyroidism - she is constantly cold even in summer and has lost a lot of weight in recent years, and not in a good way, she is skin and bone but is obsessed about not putting weight on and affecting her joints.

Are there more impactful/helpful things needed initially other than just diet and lifestyle? Her doctor has suggested thyroxine to her which we know is a bad idea. Should I look at getting her some T3 or a T3/T4 combo?

Thanks everyone.
 

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Blossom

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If it were my mom I’d try to get her to eat an ounce or two of liver a few times per week and incorporate some red meat as well if she’s not currently eating any. A good thyroid glandular (like life giving store bovine thyroid) might help as well. I hope you get more input and can help her turn this situation around.
 

Jam

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For context, she has just turned 70 and has had severe rheumatoid arthritis for 30 years. Recently she has been feeling like she has less and less energy, constantly tired and dizzy spells. Finally she is open to exploring the impact of metabolism/bioenergetics so I got her Kate Deering’s book as an intro to the main ideas around nutrition and she is implementing bits slowly.

Her TSH is very high, vitamin D very low, ferritin very low. C-reactive protein is off the scale. Are there any other aspects of the panel that are worrying or warrant specific focus?

To me it looks like severe hypothyroidism - she is constantly cold even in summer and has lost a lot of weight in recent years, and not in a good way, she is skin and bone but is obsessed about not putting weight on and affecting her joints.

Are there more impactful/helpful things needed initially other than just diet and lifestyle? Her doctor has suggested thyroxine to her which we know is a bad idea. Should I look at getting her some T3 or a T3/T4 combo?

Thanks everyone.
ESR is also a biomarker for inflammation / fibrosis. The high CRP and ESR are signs that her rheumatoid arthritis is indeed severe.


If it were me, I would put her on megadoses of Vitamin D3, supported with adequate K2-MK4.
 

JudiBlueHen

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I know many on this forum might disagree, but in her case, at her age, I do not think a trial of levothyroxine is a bad idea. Not everyone has difficulty converting T4 to T3. The doctor can add T3 if the T4 does not help. Also, I would not worry about her GFR - it is in an OK range for a person her age, according to US age-related ranges. Her D3 level is actually pretty good at 54.
 

Scout88at

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Magnesium, vitamin K2, cynoplus, fruit/fruit juices, bee pollen, and having a nourishment plan that offers her adequate amounts and helps regulate blood sugar
 

Sefton10

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Oh and real sunlight too if it’s currently available where you live.
I would put her on megadoses of Vitamin D3, supported with adequate K2-MK4

Thanks both. Just checked with her and the only supplement she takes is folic acid (she doesn't know why) and something called Adcal-D3 which is 1500mg of Calcium Carbonate with 400 I.U. of vitamin D3. I agree a much bigger dose of D3 is warranted - sun not an option here in the UK now unfortunately.
 

Sefton10

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I know many on this forum might disagree, but in her case, at her age, I do not think a trial of levothyroxine is a bad idea. Not everyone has difficulty converting T4 to T3. The doctor can add T3 if the T4 does not help.
She normally does whatever the docs say but she won't touch thyroxine simply because her sister has been on it for years and she's seen how it made her symptoms worse.
Magnesium, vitamin K2, cynoplus, fruit/fruit juices, bee pollen, and having a nourishment plan that offers her adequate amounts and helps regulate blood sugar
I will definitely add magnesium into the mix, she will be so deficient in that through years of shocking diet. Thankfully she is onboard with adding things like juices and honey etc. Her big one is going to be reducing grains like wholegrain bread and porridge oats as they have been a staple for her.
 

Sefton10

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Found out she has also been prescribed Alendronic acid for the last 7 years for osteoporosis. Not heard much about that on the forum.

I’ve ordered her a magnesium glycinate supplement and the Thorne D3/K2 combo. She is going to nix the Adcal and up her dairy intake for calcium. She’s had milk for years in coffee and porridge so she should be fine drinking more and nixing the tap water she usually drinks.
 
K

Kaur Singh

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Alendronic acid:

"Bisphosphonates are a class of drugs that prevent the loss of bone density, used to treat osteoporosis and similar diseases. They are the most commonly prescribed drugs used to treat osteoporosis.[1] They are called bisphosphonates because they have two phosphonate (PO(OH)
2) groups. They are thus also called diphosphonates (bis- or di- + phosphonate)."

Read the side-effects on wiki:

from there:
"Patient- and Physician-Oriented Web Sites and Drug Surveillance: Bisphosphonates and Severe Bone, Joint, and Muscle Pain"

a bit more thoughts on long-term administration
(when is it time to stop?)

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Peat on RA

KMUD: 10-21-16 Rheumatoid Arthritis Full Interview

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwEY0br2SEE


He's mentioned it in a few articles too

That it started when she was 40... my guess progesterone may also help
Did she do any HRT at any point?

How wonderful that she is open to trying things!
 
K

Kaur Singh

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I recommend starting low and slow with anything, even the stopping of something?
Maybe weaning off the calcium supp at the same time that she introduces milk, etc.
Epsom salts foot/baths with baking soda?
A little sunlight?
the inflammation - endotoxin and low CO2 and? hence, aspirin?

I don't know how to interpret her particular blood panel - I'm sure with a little elbow grease you can figure it out.
(the low hemoglobin, etc)
Rather than simply noting what is out of range (how doctors usually operate)
I pay attention to things that are borderline too, and the relationships between what is being measured
Though she has enough markers there out of range.

It's also useful to run these test once she starts doing things,
and see where things are, and how things change, and what might be the next step, etc
if it's a more complicated case.
 
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Makrosky

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I don't think I am qualified for giving such advice but If she was my mom I would suggest simpler, safer things before jumping into t3/t4 (why not NDT btw?).
- Magnesium glycinate
- Epsom salts foot bath
- Pregnenolone/Progesterone (slowly!)
- Nutritious food. You don't want to push the gas pedal with T3 and her not being able to sustain it. Keep that for later.

And maybe if there are no contradictions with the ferritin levels (a topic I haven't researched the least) :
- Aspirin
- QualiC Vitamin C

For rheumatoid arthritis I have read cases (in the forum also) of people completely obliterating it by using MMS. But I would leave that for later.

And definitely NOT syntethic T4. No way. I already have two female friends (around 40 yrs old) who take it and they are year after year more hypothyroid and with the estrogen levels through the roof. And they don't listen. Imagine a 70 yrs old woman with probably impaired T4 to T3 conversion. Keep her away from that crap.
 
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sweetpeat

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Some great ideas so far. One I haven't seen mentioned yet is make sure she's getting enough protein. At least 80 grams, though at her age it's probably a good idea to push that closer to 100. The liver needs protein to deal with the estrogen. Using dairy in place of supps for calcium is a great idea since this will also supply some protein as well as calories for foods that she might be eliminating. And I would also suggest being cautious about eliminating foods in the sense that if something is taken out of the diet, make sure it's being replaced with an equal (or close to) amount of calories.
 

Sefton10

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a bit more thoughts on long-term administration
(when is it time to stop?)
She says the doctor told her people normally take it for 5 years then stop, but he told her he wanted her to take it for 7 years. No discussion with her of what it did, how or why or any potential side effects, just "this is for osteoporosis". We always knew but it's crazy how little attention is paid to basic physiology and diet.
That it started when she was 40... my guess progesterone may also help
Did she do any HRT at any point?
I've thought about this too, and I think it's likely something Ray would suggest as a general enhancer of health anyway. She has had hot flushes during the night for many many years and sleeps pretty poorly, so no doubt estrogen is playing a role in that. I will look into getting her some to add in down the line, it is quite difficult to get Progest E in the UK at the moment.
How wonderful that she is open to trying things!
It's basically taken her hitting absolute rock bottom over many years to finally open her mind to alternatives rather than relying on the medical establishment. She is VERY stubborn and puts a lot of trust in the authorities. Hopefully if she starts seeing some improvement with basic changes she will buy into the potential more fully.
 

Sefton10

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I don't think I am qualified for giving such advice but If she was my mom I would suggest simpler, safer things before jumping into t3/t4 (why not NDT btw?).
- Magnesium glycinate
- Epsom salts foot bath
- Pregnenolone/Progesterone (slowly!)
- Nutritious food. You don't want to push the gas pedal with T3 and her not being able to sustain it. Keep that for later.

And maybe if there are no contradictions with the ferritin levels (a topic I haven't researched the least) :
- Aspirin
- QualiC Vitamin C

For rheumatoid arthritis I have read cases (in the forum also) of people completely obliterating it by using MMS. But I would leave that for later.

And definitely NOT syntethic T4. No way. I already have two female friends (around 40 yrs old) who take it and they are year after year more hypothyroid and with the estrogen levels through the roof. And they don't listen. Imagine a 70 yrs old woman with probably impaired T4 to T3 conversion. Keep her away from that crap.
I agree on the thyroid, definitely could be far too much too quick. Need to get a good nutritional base in place first, she is likely VERY micronutrient deficient as well as under-eating calories for a long time.
Some great ideas so far. One I haven't seen mentioned yet is make sure she's getting enough protein. At least 80 grams, though at her age it's probably a good idea to push that closer to 100. The liver needs protein to deal with the estrogen. Using dairy in place of supps for calcium is a great idea since this will also supply some protein as well as calories for foods that she might be eliminating. And I would also suggest being cautious about eliminating foods in the sense that if something is taken out of the diet, make sure it's being replaced with an equal (or close to) amount of calories.
She definitely under-eats protein, I've got her and my Dad to do a big meat order to fill the freezer for winter. She very much has a sweet tooth so hopefully getting enough carbs into her shouldn't be a problem. It's been a pretty high PUFA diet for many years. She loves her morning porridge (which she covers in berries, chia seeds, nuts and hemp seed) and vegetable soup for dinner. I think the reason she likes these so much is simply because they are eaten hot so they warm her up, the rest of her diet is sandwiches etc so very cold. She has also had an obsession with Kefir as she heard somewhere about it being good for digestion so drinks a bottle of that every morning. Replacing stuff like that and cold water with warm milk and honey should help.
 

Makrosky

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I agree on the thyroid, definitely could be far too much too quick. Need to get a good nutritional base in place first, she is likely VERY micronutrient deficient as well as under-eating calories for a long time.

She definitely under-eats protein, I've got her and my Dad to do a big meat order to fill the freezer for winter. She very much has a sweet tooth so hopefully getting enough carbs into her shouldn't be a problem. It's been a pretty high PUFA diet for many years. She loves her morning porridge (which she covers in berries, chia seeds, nuts and hemp seed) and vegetable soup for dinner. I think the reason she likes these so much is simply because they are eaten hot so they warm her up, the rest of her diet is sandwiches etc so very cold. She has also had an obsession with Kefir as she heard somewhere about it being good for digestion so drinks a bottle of that every morning. Replacing stuff like that and cold water with warm milk and honey should help.
If she had that diet, then suddenly bring protein intake up so much can be problematic? digestive enzymes can help until she regains more digestive power.

Keep in mind she also has to enjoy the food she eats.

So much good advice on this thread but choose 3-4 things and start slowly. Too fast can be traumatic.
 

sweetpeat

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If she had that diet, then suddenly bring protein intake up so much can be problematic? digestive enzymes can help until she regains more digestive power.

Keep in mind she also has to enjoy the food she eats.

So much good advice on this thread but choose 3-4 things and start slowly. Too fast can be traumatic.
Oh yes! I did intend to mean that the protein goal is something to work towards, not jump in with both feet. I hope @Sefton10 understood.
Very good advice to take things slow.
 

Sefton10

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Oh yes! I did intend to mean that the protein goal is something to work towards, not jump in with both feet. I hope @Sefton10 understood.
Very good advice to take things slow.
Yes definitely. Looking to up her protein intake initially through milk and a couple of eggs while gradually building up small portions of meat/liver. For example, instead of lentils in the soup she makes, some slow cooked meat with the veg. Hopefully that makes it less of a sudden shift.
 

Sefton10

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Thought I should update. She has been making an effort with diet but has gradually been feeling worse and worse for a few weeks now and it has made little if any difference. She has now been diagnosed with giant cell arteritis. She is double vaxxed but will not entertain it could be a side effect of that. They have now put her on high dose prednisolone.

1634638885435.png
 

Jam

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Sorry to hear Sefton. If it were my mom, I would put her on 1-2x500mg daily Olive Leaf Extract without hesitating.

 

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