Help! I'm A 27 Year Old Woman, Feeling Like A Medical Mystery: Facial Hair, Body Hair, But Not PCOS?

[Celia]

I have an embarrassing problem with dark body hair and side-burns. I've been lurking on these forums for months, but I haven't found something that fits, since I don't have other problems that are related to PCOS. By most standards, I'm healthy. I'm slim and my cycles are normal. My energy levels are normal. My body temperature is slightly cold by the standards here, but not by much. Also, I've talked to a doctor about PCOS a couple years ago, but he didn't think I had it.

My risk factors are that I was a serious high school track athlete, was vegetarian in my teens and early twenties (ate a lot of soy), and had some bad eating habits. I first started having unusual body hair when I was going through a particularly stressful time in my early twenties so it might be a correlation with stress too.

I've had problems with PMS and sometimes painful periods, but a few months ago started taking Progest-E and D3 and that's helped more than I expected. But my body hair is getting worse. I was reading somewhere that progesterone supplements can actually cause testosterone levels to rise and I'm wondering if I should discontinue Progest-E or maybe I'm taking it wrong. I'm also wondering about taking thyroid, but I'm a confused about how to do this.

Any ideas about what's wrong with me and where I go from here?

 

[Luckytype]

What kind of heritage do you have and what kinds of face and body hair do some of the other ladies in your family have?

 

[Celia]

What kind of heritage do you have and what kinds of face and body hair do some of the other ladies in your family have?

I'm mostly of Irish descent. As far as I know, this isn't a problem for any of my relatives.

 

[johnwester130]

diet ?

supplements ?

lifestyle ?

 

[marikay]

Hi. I am not 27 but I did run marathons and followed that up with a vegetarian diet for a year or two and suffered mightily for it. I am also of Irish descent. The body and facial hair is likely from cortisol being extremely high. Both Marilyn Monroe and Elizabeth Tay;pr had that condition and they bleached the body and facial hair (Monroe bleached more than that:) and that white hair acted as a kind of softening filter for the camera which made them both look far more feminine than they looked in real life. It became a standard for beauty that was of course unobtainable. But back to you...

The ProgestE should be helpful. In my experience, even a large amount of Progesterone doesn’t increase facial or body hair. You can bleach the hair on your face and body till you get the cortisol under control. In fact, if you keep you hair, eyebrows, and eyelashes dark and the facial and body hair white, you may find you like the effect. But then again cortisol makes you feel terrible so the sooner you get that under control the better.

Search the forum for cortisol and you’ll be able to get a good idea what you can do to keep it under control. This is completely fixable on a Peat diet.

Good Luck.

 

[Tarmander]

Sounds like you have eaten a lot of PUFA. Have you tried Vitamin E? It can have progesterone like effects

 

[schultz]

My first guess was some kind of cortisol and/or adrenal issue. The fact that you mentioned stress lends some support to this.

Have you ever taken prednisone or some corticosteroid? I don't know how serious your symptoms are because I don't know you, but I would try to rule out excessive cortisol so that you know it's not some sort of pituitary or adrenal adenoma.

 

[InChristAlone]

How could it be excess cortisol if she is healthy and slim? Hypercortisolism leads to round face, stretch marks, and obesity. I'd say excess androgens. But it can also be idiopathic.

 

[tara]

Hi Celia,
Not enough to go on, but enough to ask questions - serious athletics, slim, cold, hirsute, PMS, dysmenhorrhea, ex-vegetarian - do you want to estimate average daily calories, and daily protein? Now and something approximate about your history?
I'm wondering if some of this could be contributed to by energy and/or protein deficiency, as well as PUFA load.

Cronometer.com or similar is a relativelty easy way to get estimates, just don't believe their restrictive (low) calorie suggestions.

If you have had thyroid hormone levels tested, you can post them if you want - might get a different interpretation here than from dr.

Do you want to post your approx/average body temps? (Many thermometers take 5-10 mins to come up to stable body temp, even if they say they are done in much less.)

 

[Celia]

More information:

I'm not sure of my daily calorie intake. I should probably figure that out. For the last year I've been trying to avoid PUFA, but I've only been strict about it recently. I know my calorie intake is not what it should be, but it can be hard with a limited diet esp. since I work a lot and don't have as much time as I'd like to prepare food at home. Skipping meals has been a bad habit and unfortunately I do it more sometimes now to avoid PUFA. I'll try that site. Thanks for the suggestion.

I should also have included too, that before I started with Progest-E, I had problems with what were almost panic attacks in the later parts of my cycle, but that's, to my surprise, not a problem any more.

I had my thyroid levels tested a couple years ago but I don't know were my results are now. My doctor thought I was fine, but I know that's not necessarily true. I should probably be tested again, but I've had some bad experiences with traditional doctors and I'm not excited to go back if I can avoid it. In general, even though I've had a lot of minor problems, I don't seem unwell enough for those things to be taken seriously.

My average waking temperature for the last month was 98.0 F, and was between 97.5 - 98.4, but I've been running warmer than I was a few months ago, which is positive.

Also, my skin is very dry and sensitive, which might indicate thyroid too, from what I've read.

 

[tara]

I had my thyroid levels tested a couple years ago but I don't know were my results are now. My doctor thought I was fine, but I know that's not necessarily true.

You might be able to get these results sent to you again even if you don't want to do more testing atm? Body temps adn reting pulse give a bit of a DIY indicator anyway? Waking at 98 F is not too bad if it is not just stress hormones. I think checking whether it goes up or down half an hour or an hour after breakfast can help distinguish whether it is elevated by stress.

I'm not sure of my daily calorie intake. I should probably figure that out. For the last year I've been trying to avoid PUFA, but I've only been strict about it recently.

Hopefully this will make a difference.

I know my calorie intake is not what it should be, but it can be hard with a limited diet esp. since I work a lot and don't have as much time as I'd like to prepare food at home. Skipping meals has been a bad habit and unfortunately I do it more sometimes now to avoid PUFA. I'll try that site. Thanks for the suggestion.

From what I've read, there is some variation, but normal calories for a mature adult woman are around 2500 cal/day, more under 25 years while still growing. But for someone expending a lot more energy as an athlete, needs would be higher. Prolonged deficiency can have significant hormonal consequences. I'm in favour of you checking how this is now, and considering whether it could have been a factor in previous years too, in case you may have some recovery to catch up on.

 

[Zpol]

You could ask your doctor for this test
Free Androgen Index

"A free androgen index (FAI) is a ratio figured out after a blood test for testosterone. It's used to see whether you have abnormal androgen levels.

Both men and women make male hormones called androgens, which include testosterone. During puberty, testosterone helps children develop into adults. As you age, levels of this hormone can fall. This causes health problems for both men and women.

A testosterone test is a blood test that measures total testosterone, free testosterone, and a protein called steroid hormone binding globulin (SHBG). A free androgen index measures testosterone in your blood and compares it with the total amount of testosterone and SHBG in your body. "​

Clearly you have a hormonal imbalance somewhere, this test will show you where.
Even though your doc says you do not have PCOS, you may actually have it. I personally have one doctor telling me I have it and one who says I don't. I have cysts on my ovaries but I don't have obesity or insulin resistance. I did have amenorrhoea which I treated successfully with progesterone. Using Progesterone is tricky at first because it can turn into other hormones; you check out this page for proper instructions or work with your doc.

Also, Nettle tea infusions can be helpful in regulating hormones. I started researching this herb because I hear the Herb Doc from KMUD mention it a lot. Plus, I bave disregulated hormones which is partially causing SIBO. When I research raising or lowering any hormone, and increasing or decreasing SHBG, I'm always led back to Nettle.
Hope that helps a bit!

 

[Zpol]

@Celia
KMUD: 9-15-17 California Proposition 65
Start listening at 28:43 when RP responds to the first caller. A young lady with hirsutism explains her success and issues with progesterone supplementation. RP explains the life cycle of hair follicles and the amount of time it takes for them to "re-feminize" after using progesterone to correct androgen issues. This may be very beneficial for your circumstance.

 

[Blossom]

@Celia
KMUD: 9-15-17 California Proposition 65
Start listening at 28:43 when RP responds to the first caller. A young lady with hirsutism explains her success and issues with progesterone supplementation. RP explains the life cycle of hair follicles and the amount of time it takes for them to "re-feminize" after using progesterone to correct androgen issues. This may be very beneficial for your circumstance.

Thanks for the link @Zpol. I listened starting at that point on my drive home from work this morning and it was all male callers. Do you by any chance remember the amount of time that was mentioned for re-feminizing? I definitely plan on listening to the whole show soon.

 

[Blossom]

I just listened and there wasn't a time period for re-feminization of the hair follicles mentioned but applying topical progesterone to the hairy areas was recommended based on French research.

 

[Zpol]

I just listened and there wasn't a time period for re-feminization of the hair follicles mentioned but applying topical progesterone to the hairy areas was recommended based on French research.

Unfortunately, all he says is that the life cycle of a hair follicle is a 'finite' period of time, doesn't say how long.
I did a little bit of research and what I gather is that the life cycle varies upon individual and the area of the body, anywhere from 3 to 7 years.
The goal being to continuously 'interupt' the life cycle with the application of Progesterone until the the follicle completely regenerates. If I understand correctly.

 

[Blossom]

Unfortunately, all he says is that the life cycle of a hair follicle is a 'finite' period of time, doesn't say how long.
I did a little bit of research and what I gather is that the life cycle varies upon individual and the area of the body, anywhere from 3 to 7 years.
The goal being to continuously 'interupt' the life cycle with the application of Progesterone until the the follicle completely regenerates. If I understand correctly.

Thanks @Zpol. That's the impression I got too. We have a forum member who wrote that she used progesterone topically for facial hair and she said it helped.