HELP: CAN'T STOP LOSING WEIGHT

[andrei]

Hi guys!
Starting around 4 months ago, I slowly diminished my appetite for animal food. It means I was eating less and less protein and less calories than before.
I lost 5kg since then. I only crave fruits and potatoes. And I eat around 2500 cal worth of them. But I only eat around 30-40 grams of animal protein from greek yogurt. Now I don't even eat meat, not even after resistance training.
The irony is that my mood is best when I eat mostly plants. I lost almost all my stubborn fat in this time without trying. I am eating to appetite and satiety. The gradual muscle loss worries me.
This is very odd and I don't want to keep losing weight. Unfortunately I don't have blood tests at the moment.
Any ideas? What could be happening?

 

[yerrag]

I think that if you're not eating enough protein but eating enough carbohydrates, you're able to use the carbs for your metabolism and have no need to break down protein and convert it to sugar for metabolic needs. However, the many enzymes being used by the body involve the use of amino acids, and when you are not providing sufficient amino acids from protein intake , and of the kind that the body needs, the body will have to use up its own protein to provide amino acids to provide enzymes.

I've been in that situation before. I also lost a lot of weight, but I end up looking like a shell of myself.

 

[Hans]

Cortisol can cause that.

 

[Terma]

Easy to halt, get high dose Gabapentin, Lyrica, Baclofen or Phenibut (strong GABAergics and Gabapentinoids, whichever you tolerate, they're easier on your psyche than cyproheptadine, just careful about timing doses and getting hooked/tolerance [and they're not 100% equivalent between each other, nor are GABA-A or GABA-B equivalent, and nor are GVCC inhibitor Gabapentinoid effects 100% equivalent to real GABA receptor agonists; that said they tend to all produce a weight gain and satiety lessening effect in the right doses; point is don't try just one and then give up]) for awhile + eat carrageenan-/gum-free ice cream with high protein and some choline, all together.

[AND some rice or potatoes may help if you're losing a lot of lean muscle mass especially; but definitely also increase protein like suggested above]

 

[Terma]

It IS possible ice cream can worsen the situation over time (insulin resistance which you could easily already have given the weight loss) in which case rice and potatoes are superior, but still the fat+carbs combo is effective and dairy fat works great for this, and ice cream is from reading other people's experiences a bit more than anything.

[Definitely in your case the protein is a huge factor as suggested above, probably the major one, just trying to fill in the gaps, and combined therapies > monotherapies]

 

[Andman]

Easy to halt, get high dose Gabapentin, Lyrica, Baclofen or Phenibut (strong GABAergics and Gabapentinoids, whichever you tolerate, they're easier on your psyche than cyproheptadine, just careful about timing doses and getting hooked/tolerance [and they're not 100% equivalent between each other, nor are GABA-A or GABA-B equivalent, and nor are GVCC inhibitor Gabapentinoid effects 100% equivalent to real GABA receptor agonists; that said they tend to all produce a weight gain and satiety lessening effect in the right doses; point is don't try just one and then give up]) for awhile + eat carrageenan-/gum-free ice cream with high protein and some choline, all together.

[AND some rice or potatoes may help if you're losing a lot of lean muscle mass especially; but definitely also increase protein like suggested above]

agree with most of this

except recommending strong benzo-like drugs over cypro - dude what?

 

[sunraiser]

Hi guys!
Starting around 4 months ago, I slowly diminished my appetite for animal food. It means I was eating less and less protein and less calories than before.
I lost 5kg since then. I only crave fruits and potatoes. And I eat around 2500 cal worth of them. But I only eat around 30-40 grams of animal protein from greek yogurt. Now I don't even eat meat, not even after resistance training.
The irony is that my mood is best when I eat mostly plants. I lost almost all my stubborn fat in this time without trying. I am eating to appetite and satiety. The gradual muscle loss worries me.
This is very odd and I don't want to keep losing weight. Unfortunately I don't have blood tests at the moment.
Any ideas? What could be happening?

How much do you weigh and how tall?

Do you enjoy the fruits and potatoes and feel sated by them?

Are there any cravings you're ignoring due dietary restrictions?

Are you taking ANY substances or using lots of caffeine or choc or any other stimulant?

If you're feeling good then this is perhaps your body finding its way to eqiilibrium and it's just something transient and healthy.

 

[Terma]

Cyproheptadine and antihistamines completely wrecked me, worse than any of those drugs ever did.

Actually Gabapentin and Lyrica have very good track records overall, despite some people developing tolerance, which cypro basically works on a tolerance mechanism.

Baclofen has a very short half-life and used by bodybuilders for decades.

Phenibut is highly dependence-forming, so you have to know what you're getting into, but a temporary usage of high dose twice a week is sustainable. But it's worth mentioning because it's easily obtainable and has also been used by bodybuilders.

Benzos are MUCH worse than any of these drugs, save for Phenibut abuse, which is why I didn't mention them by name.

You can even get some of these effects from 5a-DHP, OR Progesterone if your enzymes all work fine (but Salmonamb is right that this could involve higher Cortisol and therefore lower levels of those enzymes). [But I'm not convinced it's as effective yet - despite research showing it should be - maybe because they're positive allosteric modulators rather than agonists] [You'd expect them to pan out given their effects during pregnancy, but there may be other factors involved and they just don't seem as strong based on experiences... that said you can always try these first if it's not that urgent]

 

[andrei]

Thank you all for the replies!

How much do you weigh and how tall?

Do you enjoy the fruits and potatoes and feel sated by them?

Are there any cravings you're ignoring due dietary restrictions?

Are you taking ANY substances or using lots of caffeine or choc or any other stimulant?

If you're feeling good then this is perhaps your body finding its way to eqiilibrium and it's just something transient and healthy.

Yes, this is what I crave. The only animal protein I crave is some greek yogurt (at most 300 grams per day).
I am 178 cm and 76 kg. I was 81 kg.
I do not restrict anything and never did since Peating. I only drink a bit of coffee in the am, and I take 1 gram of glycine. I just started Kuinone from Haidut 2 days ago.

So far I also take it as an adjustment. It does worry me that this is happening for 4 months already. I used to have much fat in my love handles, stored there most of my life. I almost got rid of it, something I never thought possible. My thesis is that my body got rid of its own toxins, i.e. stubborn fat. I also lost muscle size, but within that size was included water, glycogen and fat.
My strength capabilities remained similar. Actually I am slightly weaker. I am thinner. Currently I am extremely lean, around 9-10 %.

My mental calmness is incredible when I eat mostly plants. And the sleep as well. If I force a high animal meal, I instantly feel upset and negative and sleep worse.

I will judge in the upcoming weeks how this is going. I introduced potatoes with coconut oil a couple of days ago. Since then my total calories have increased. Maybe it will keep increasing. But my animal food craving is still low.

 

[JustAGuy]

Same thing here, eating too much protein/fat makes me feel way worse. I eat only like 75g protein a day currently.
I think protein is overrated for muscle if you do resistance exercise and getting in 1g/kg of bodyweight. Just make sure some of the protein is of high quality. I feel similar when I get like 30g of protein from fruit as getting 30g from milk, even though the milk protein supposedly is more useful for us, therefor I try to minimize plant proteins (no oats/high protein grains/fruits) and focus more on things like milk.
178cm and 76kg is not too light at all btw.

Also, this is an interesting read if you think protein is very important for having a muscular physique:
Living in a (new) country full of lean, jacked dudes on low-protein diets. What gives? : leangains

 

[Terma]

It's true there was at least one study where men put on muscle on potatoes alone, but I don't recall the details. It assumes some measure of health to begin with.

It's a very high GI food unless you drench it in butter and vinegar (see Jaminet's diet for details). I doubt anyone's compared them in a study but butter might be more effective than coconut for anabolism or weight gain of different sorts. Unless the GI effect specifically is what gives you the benefit in your situation, versus the fat+carbs combo, meaning your response to insulin, and whatever the dairy fatty acids (palmitic/myristic/oleic) are doing for you.

 

[Terma]

You may also get the issue that eating tons of potatoes gets rather hard, because the high GI/insulin makes them quite satiating. Butter adds calories, lowers the GI and increases the fat+carbs combo burden [and iirc helps steroids].

 

[fradon]

Hi guys!
Starting around 4 months ago, I slowly diminished my appetite for animal food. It means I was eating less and less protein and less calories than before.
I lost 5kg since then. I only crave fruits and potatoes. And I eat around 2500 cal worth of them. But I only eat around 30-40 grams of animal protein from greek yogurt. Now I don't even eat meat, not even after resistance training.
The irony is that my mood is best when I eat mostly plants. I lost almost all my stubborn fat in this time without trying. I am eating to appetite and satiety. The gradual muscle loss worries me.
This is very odd and I don't want to keep losing weight. Unfortunately I don't have blood tests at the moment.
Any ideas? What could be happening?

sounds like 4 months something happened that lowered your stomach acid and this reduces the craving for meat and increases the craving for carbs. this could be from a bacteria, virus, stress, even H pyloric or even AGE.

fruit can be highly stimulating to the brain and the sugar will speed up your metabolism increasing fat burning especially belly fat.

you are also eating a lot of fiber that will also help with weight loss and digestion. potatoes have resistant starch and they dont' get comepley digested till they hit the colon.

to preseve muscle do some weight lifting which will stress the muslce and make it grow so when you eat sugar the muscles will retain the glucose but if your eat more fructose then you will not see much muscle enlargement due to fructose going to the liver and not the muscle.

to slow down your metabolism just add some fat to your diet, fatty meats coudl do it, but fat would antagoisze your sped up metabolism and slow you down

many fruits of cannaboids and these are high stimulating to the brain...you conditions sounds similar to people who use COCAINE and they lose a lot of weight espeically fat. I wonder if the fruit you are eating is working in a similar way.

 

[fradon]

low iron, low growth hormone, low insuline resistance, low weight gain

HOW FOOD ENRICHMENT PROMOTES OBESITY – Richard Nikoley – Medium

 

[andrei]

sounds like 4 months something happened that lowered your stomach acid and this reduces the craving for meat and increases the craving for carbs. this could be from a bacteria, virus, stress, even H pyloric or even AGE.

fruit can be highly stimulating to the brain and the sugar will speed up your metabolism increasing fat burning especially belly fat.

you are also eating a lot of fiber that will also help with weight loss and digestion. potatoes have resistant starch and they dont' get comepley digested till they hit the colon.

to preseve muscle do some weight lifting which will stress the muslce and make it grow so when you eat sugar the muscles will retain the glucose but if your eat more fructose then you will not see much muscle enlargement due to fructose going to the liver and not the muscle.

to slow down your metabolism just add some fat to your diet, fatty meats coudl do it, but fat would antagoisze your sped up metabolism and slow you down

many fruits of cannaboids and these are high stimulating to the brain...you conditions sounds similar to people who use COCAINE and they lose a lot of weight espeically fat. I wonder if the fruit you are eating is working in a similar way.

Thank you for the message. I was doing aspirin 1.5 grams at that time. Could it be related? I quit aspirin only a few weeks ago. I am eating more calories now with potatoes, but no weight gain so far.
The hypothesis with virus makes sense. I have to test with blood work.

 

[fradon]

Thank you for the message. I was doing aspirin 1.5 grams at that time. Could it be related? I quit aspirin only a few weeks ago. I am eating more calories now with potatoes, but no weight gain so far.
The hypothesis with virus makes sense. I have to test with blood work.

that pretty high amount of aspirin if it wasn't buffered the acidity could of caused problems
aspirin can cause low iron from bleeding stomach or intestinal and it may or may not be noticeable.

increasing iron foods and red meat could increase weight gain
as the b vitamins would make digestion of carbs better and the iron increaeses appetite.

this article says low iron also cuase weight loss because it increase leptin and high leptin makes the body burn fat and you lose weight. in theory adding more iron rich foods should help you gain weight by shutting off leptin and increasing appetite. you also need some copper foods to help activate the iron

fructose increaes iron absorption but creates a copper deficiency
coffee decreases iron absorption but increase copper absorption

JCI - Adipocyte iron regulates leptin and food intake
iron overload increases adipocyte iron and decreases leptin

 

[tara]

Starting around 4 months ago, I slowly diminished my appetite for animal food. It means I was eating less and less protein and less calories than before.
I lost 5kg since then. I only crave fruits and potatoes. And I eat around 2500 cal worth of them. But I only eat around 30-40 grams of animal protein from greek yogurt. Now I don't even eat meat, not even after resistance training.
The irony is that my mood is best when I eat mostly plants. I lost almost all my stubborn fat in this time without trying. I am eating to appetite and satiety. The gradual muscle loss worries me.
This is very odd and I don't want to keep losing weight. Unfortunately I don't have blood tests at the moment.
Any ideas? What could be happening?

What could be happening is that you may well be eating less than maintenance calories. Doesn't look surprising to me that you would lose weight on a diet like this.

I'm no expert, and don't know what would suit your system personally, but could you consider trying:
Maybe increase the greek yogurt, or get a higher fat version of it? Perhaps use it as started to sour some good cream?
Could you find some more dense fruit? Coconut?
Maybe try varying your food more to see if that stimulates more appetite?
Maybe add a serving of liver every now and then, even a small one? Can help fill in minerals and vitamins.
Maybe occasional oysters, or other shellfish?
And see if any of these agree with you.

Have you had a look at Jennifer's thread? She lives largely on fruit. May find some ideas. IIRC, she is much smaller than you, and I think she eats more than you do. :)

Note that if you are in energy deficit, one thing that can happen is that you may be getting some stress hormones from that, which may be making you feel good even though they don't actually mean it is sustainable long term.

 

[Mango]

Regular hi-dose aspirin was an appetite suppressant for me. My appetite came back gradually when I stopped, maybe yours will too.

 

[yerrag]

From Color Atlas of Biochemistry:

Proteins taken up in food are initially broken down in the gastrointestinal tract into amino acids, which are resorbed and distributed in the organism via the blood. The human body is not capable of synthesizing 8-10 of the 20 proteinogenic amino acids it requires. These amino acids are essential, and have to be supplied from food.

Proteins are constantly being lost via the intestine and, to a lesser extent, via the kidneys. To balance these inevitable losses, at least 30 g of protein have to be taken up with food every day. Although this minimum value is barely reached in some countries, in the industrial nations the protein content of food is usually much higher than necessary. As it is not possible to store amino acids, up to 100 g of excess amino acids per day are used for biosynthesis or degraded in the liver in this situation. The nitrogen from this excess is converted into urea and excreted in the urine in this form. The carbon skeletons are used to synthesize carbohydrates or lipids, or are used to form ATP.

It is thought that adults break down 300-400g of protein per day into amino acids (proteolysis). On the other hand, approximately the same amount of amino acids is reincorporated into proteins (protein biosynthesis). The body's high level of protein turnover is due to the fact that many proteins are relatively short-lived. On average, their half-lives amount to 2-8 days. The key enzymes of the intermediary metabolism have even shorter half-lives. They are sometimes broken down only a few hours after being synthesized, and replaced by new molecules. This constant process of synthesis and degradation makes it possible for the cells to quickly adjust the quantities, and therefore the activity, of important enzymes in order to meet current requirements. By contrast, structural proteins such as the histones, hemoglobin, and the components of the cytoskeleton are particularly long-lived.

 

[sunraiser]

Thank you all for the replies!



Yes, this is what I crave. The only animal protein I crave is some greek yogurt (at most 300 grams per day).
I am 178 cm and 76 kg. I was 81 kg.
I do not restrict anything and never did since Peating. I only drink a bit of coffee in the am, and I take 1 gram of glycine. I just started Kuinone from Haidut 2 days ago.

So far I also take it as an adjustment. It does worry me that this is happening for 4 months already. I used to have much fat in my love handles, stored there most of my life. I almost got rid of it, something I never thought possible. My thesis is that my body got rid of its own toxins, i.e. stubborn fat. I also lost muscle size, but within that size was included water, glycogen and fat.
My strength capabilities remained similar. Actually I am slightly weaker. I am thinner. Currently I am extremely lean, around 9-10 %.

My mental calmness is incredible when I eat mostly plants. And the sleep as well. If I force a high animal meal, I instantly feel upset and negative and sleep worse.

I will judge in the upcoming weeks how this is going. I introduced potatoes with coconut oil a couple of days ago. Since then my total calories have increased. Maybe it will keep increasing. But my animal food craving is still low.

First thought is have you been eating enough copper and vitamin A? Animal foods are mostly rich in zinc. Perhaps the potatoes might bring some copper into your diet. Maybe see if you enjoy sweet potato too and see if meat becomes more appealing.

Those are just some very very loose thoughts though. All in all dropping the aspirin seems the best thing to try before other avenues.

Give it a week or so and I bet you'll be moving towards normal again!